what would be a good unit for building analog claps?
i hear the vermona drm1 is quite good but i already have several analog drum machines (808/909/Tempest) so i'd rather find a dedicated unit with controls (like tiptop or lancet series) fwiw i really like villalobos's claps:
what would be a good unit for building analog claps?
i hear the vermona drm1 is quite good but i already have several analog drum machines (808/909/Tempest) so i'd rather find a dedicated unit with controls (like tiptop or lancet series) fwiw i really like villalobos's claps:
op list your analogue synths please, you can get a nice clap out of some
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Originally Posted by djugel
The knob on the Source is perhaps the ballsiest knob ever made.
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Originally Posted by LimpyLoo
My gearection has gone from 'Fairchild' to 'Behringer'...
early simmons analog drums are actually some of the warmest / coolest i've heard but they're so hard to come by..
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Originally Posted by jbuonacc
man, those are some nice claps! what makes you so sure they're analog though?
well other then my ears telling it to me.. it's pretty well known ricardo uses analog gear extensively (there's a 2h documentary on his studio), i'm guessing the claps could be from his modular or numerous analog drum machines, possibly even the drm1..
yea i'm pretty sure analog white noise is necessary for claps and the sh-101 is the only one i got that has it..
(tempest uses samples for noise & the moog only has it as modulation source)
yea i'm pretty sure analog white noise is necessary for claps and the sh-101 is the only one i got that has it..
you dont actually need a white noise generator: pink is often better. also if you have enough FM, you can synthesise your own white noise and use that as a modulator... but i digress..
the LP doesnt have noise?! ok
IF you can modulate the LP's oscs from an external source (ie CV) you can feed it noise from the sh101.
yes, LP has CV input for pitch, volume & filter...also the LP doesn't generate noise but in the latest software update noise can be used for modulation.. not really sure how i would re-modulate again with the adsr as you suggest?? (modulation isn't the LP's strength)
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Originally Posted by golden beers
you dont actually need a white noise generator: pink is often better. also if you have enough FM, you can synthesise your own white noise and use that as a modulator... but i digress..
tempest has pink noise but like i said it's just a sample so i doubt i could modulate anything with it right?
not sure about tempest FM capabilities and even less of a "loopable env option" care to elaborate?
early simmons analog drums are actually some of the warmest / coolest i've heard but they're so hard to come by..
ok... i had the SDS-8 and SDS-200, i thought they were boring as hell and sounded pretty lame. the 200 was a bit more interesting thanks to the "second skin" parameter, but it still sucked. no love here for those old Simmons or Tama drum brains, i think they're junk.
EDIT: the SDS-V is pretty nice though, for what it is.
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... i'm guessing the claps could be from his modular or numerous analog drum machines, possibly even the drm1..
i'm guessing they could be from any number of sources. at certain points it sounds to me like a grainy lo-bit sample pitched down and filtered, while cutting off the tail at times for more of a click. did you listen to that Clap Trap? sounds pretty similar in some ways.
ok... i had the SDS-8 and SDS-200, i thought they were boring as hell and sounded pretty lame. the 200 was a bit more interesting thanks to the "second skin" parameter, but it still sucked. no love here for those old Simmons or Tama drum brains, i think they're junk.
you know the adage, one mans junk is another mans treasure
simmons is very hit/miss though, im not familar with all their units but i was referring mainly to the SDS-V which from the demos i've heard is real nice imo: single-handed home acid - YouTube
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Originally Posted by jbuonacc
i'm guessing they could be from any number of sources. at certain points it sounds to me like a grainy lo-bit sample pitched down and filtered, while cutting off the tail at times for more of a click. did you listen to that Clap Trap? sounds pretty similar in some ways.
who knows though, it might actually be analog.
is that an educated guess? i don't know how familiar you are with ricardo's work or seen his studio but i'd say the chances of those claps being analog are close to 99% but could be wrong of course, doesn't really change the fact i'm looking into synthesizing my own...
what would be a good unit for building analog claps?
i hear the vermona drm1 is quite good but i already have several analog drum machines (808/909/Tempest) so i'd rather find a dedicated unit with controls (like tiptop or lancet series) fwiw i really like villalobos's claps:
Save your money, you can clap your own hands together for free.
yeah, that's cool if you like the sound. listening to some other clips of the SDS-V, i guess i don't like that one too much either. oh well, not that it matters here.
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is that an educated guess?
nope, just guessing based on what i'm hearing. you'll also notice that the hat is most definitely a sample, as well as the snare that hits occasionally later on. actually, i wouldn't be surprised if all the drum sounds in the track are processed Linn or Oberheim drums.
great track though (besides the vocal), thanks for the link!
well the track is a remix so there are a few samples in there obviously. the occasional 707 type snare, synth hit and vocal (lifted off an old dr.dre record) are from the original track by tobias freund ( Tobias Freund - Street Knowledge - YouTube ) anyways getting back to synthesizing claps i guess i'm kind of stuck on the adsr looping/modulation stage, i hope golden beers or someone can clear that up for me!
fyi here is a glimpse of analog sounds emanating from ricardo's lab, the monitoring system alone is out of this world:
You can synthesize claps by using a sequencer that is clocked at a fast rate. I've done this with Thor in Reason, however it's the same in the analog domain.
the Simmons Clap Trap is digital. crusty/lo-fi sample playback.
EDIT: looks like they made two versions. i guess the first one is all analog, but the one in the video there is digital.
There were two. The MusicAid Clap Trap is all-analogue. They updated the Clap Trap to have a digital clap, but the the noise part that you can mix in is still analogue. I have seen a picture of an analogue Simmons Clap Trap but the most common Simmons one is the Digital Clap Trap.
yes, LP has CV input for pitch, volume & filter...also the LP doesn't generate noise but in the latest software update noise can be used for modulation.. not really sure how i would re-modulate again with the adsr as you suggest?? (modulation isn't the LP's strength)
ok here's the theory, and depending on the synth you'll get mixed results.
instead of control voltage, giving the LP pitch, you put in white noise.
now you have your oscillators pitch modulated with white noise (FM).
the result is you have white noise on which ever waveform you select on the LP carrying it.
so if you then select square pulse as the waveform you can apply PWM to that white noise.
use the secondary ADSR to do this. adjust the PW and attack/decay of the secondary ADSR to give a double transient.
that's it.
now i have experimented myself this morning with my PRO1 doing using this technique, it comes out as more of a snare. on other synths, eg system100 you can make more of a clap. so it depends on the synth.
also i used different noise generators and found that the output of my SH09 was not hot enough to use. so i suspect that your SH101 will also not me loud enough.
so i recommend recording the noise (or using noise from your computer, it doesn't matter if it's digital or analogue, in fact many analogue synths use a digital white noise generator anyway)
play the white noise out of your computer into the LP's CV in. if you're not hearing the oscs change, turn it up! at first they'll sound metallic and then you'll hear them turn more and more into noise.
don't worry about the fact that audio is AC and the CV input is DC, all this means is that only the DC component of the audio will go into the LP.
so in short, yes you are modulating a modulated oscillator.
having said all this, the results may be crap. like i said it depends on the synth. but give it a go
the idea is: white noise + multiple transient. you get that multiple transient with the pulse wave, because you can modulate with the ADSR it into a region where you can't hear it! so if you set up attack and decay and ENV amount correctly, you'll hear a snap, then a dip or fade then a second hit, adjusting that timing together with the filter will give you something usable, but maybe more snare than clap.
thanks GB... like i said the LP in the latest update does have noise built-in as a modulation source so no need to feed it some through CV (but good to know that's even possible!). so by modulating a pulse wave i indeed get a snare/clap sound after some tweaking. the problem is then to get that sound to quickly repeat in order to simulate several claps together. you mentioned using either a looping envelope feature (which none of my synths have) or using the "secondary ADSR" ... on the LP there is amp ADSR & filter ADSR, which one are you talking about?
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Originally Posted by vox243
im not so understanding.
looking at the tempest to do this - does you think tempest would work ok?
yes, i actually got very good results using the aforementioned techniques on tempest which has a very complete modulation system. noise can be set as source in the mod paths, do that and then you can set that modulated pulse to be modulated again by the ADSR for the multi-clap effect. super ez using the mod paths section..
i've also started a similar thread on the dsi forum and got a great response from laserteeth:
One way to get that 'multiple clap' effect:
For the Bursts:
Put a short decay on the amp envelope (this will be the first clap)
Create a similar envelope on aux. envelope 1, set it to VCA, and set the envelope's delay amount around 4-6.
Do the same thing on aux envelope 2, but use a higher delay (double what you put on the first aux envelope)
An alternative technique is to use a reverse-sawtooth LFO to modulate the VCA, and use an envelope to shape its 'Amount' - so that you get the bursts at the beginning (with the LFO), and the pseudo-reverb tail at the end of the sound (without the LFO).
For the Fade:
If you use ADSR envelopes, you can set a low-sustain/high release on one of the AMP envelopes to give a gentle 'reverb-tail' type effect that lots of clap sounds seem to have.
Hang on, so i could take some white noise (say, made by my matrix 6) and then feed that into the CV input of my Mono/Poly? which CV input? the regular CV, the VCF one, or the VCO FM input? I'm so gonna try this later, i'm sure there'll be some whacky sounds in that
ok i made a couple of example claps on my pro1 using that technique + a little bit of tweaking.
i did manage to use the SH09 as the noise generator, but i had to run it through my mixer and boost it to hell to get the noise at the right level. so i'm sure you can get something similar from your sh101 + LP if you run your SH101 through a mixer, also you can do quite a bit with EQ of the noise BEFORE it gets to the destination CV input.
ps RE: LP has a noise option. i think you'd probably have to use the CV in method regardless. but try it both ways... said the bishop to the nun.
"secondary ADSR" ... on the LP there is amp ADSR & filter ADSR, which one are you talking about?
i'm talking about the filter ADSR. try it with attack at 10 o'clock and decay at 7 o'clock as a starting point, (sustain zero release zero) and use that to modulate pulse width.
Hang on, so i could take some white noise (say, made by my matrix 6) and then feed that into the CV input of my Mono/Poly? which CV input? the regular CV, the VCF one, or the VCO FM input? I'm so gonna try this later, i'm sure there'll be some whacky sounds in that
yep. try all 3. VCF probably wont be of any use to you until you turn up the resonance.
For a multi-clap, you could just focus on synthesizing a single clap and then use multiple keys across a couple of octaves. This way you can add variation in pitch and timing. With a fast enough envelope, the actual pitch of the oscillator isn't heard but will give the effect of multiple size or position of hands - helpful for synths that don't have noise. Of course, you are not gonna get the decay but you can use reverb for that. Here's my example with the PP-SEM:
I did record the ones above as separate single hits and cut them up so I could pan them around and get better timing than I was getting from the Midi-CV converter I was using at the time.
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ok... i had the SDS-8 and SDS-200, i thought they were boring as hell and sounded pretty lame. the 200 was a bit more interesting thanks to the "second skin" parameter, but it still sucked. no love here for those old Simmons or Tama drum brains, i think they're junk.
