Login / Register
 
DnB Drums/Percussion: Samples or Created From Scratch?
New Reply
Subscribe
Dimension
Thread Starter
#1
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #1
Gear maniac
 
Dimension's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Kelowna
Posts: 224

Thread Starter
Dimension is offline
DnB Drums/Percussion: Samples or Created From Scratch?

Hello!

So after experimenting with different sub genres of electronic music, I am now geared towards making future/liquid DnB, but after my attempt at using samples for the drums/percussion, Im wondering..

Should I make my own drums/percussion? What percussion are used in DnB?

I guess the simplest way to explain my problem is not writing WHERE I put the drums/percussion, but WHAT to use for the percussion, my current WIP sounds too random, even after carefully choosing each sample..

And to get to the point, I am writing in the style of Xilent. Also, do you know of any frequency charts that show where the instruments sit in DNB?

If you can provide me with any links that would save us both time I would really appreciate it!!
#2
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #2
Banned
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 1,552

LimpyLoo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimension View Post
Hello!

So after experimenting with different sub genres of electronic music, I am now geared towards making future/liquid DnB, but after my attempt at using samples for the drums/percussion, Im wondering..

Should I make my own drums/percussion? What percussion are used in DnB?

I guess the simplest way to explain my problem is not writing WHERE I put the drums/percussion, but WHAT to use for the percussion, my current WIP sounds too random, even after carefully choosing each sample..

And to get to the point, I am writing in the style of Xilent. Also, do you know of any frequency charts that show where the instruments sit in DNB?

If you can provide me with any links that would save us both time I would really appreciate it!!
Chop up soul breaks from the 60's. Pitch up the snares. The end.
#3
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #3
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Vienna/Auckland
Posts: 1,343

mattyc is offline
There are some breaks packs on dogs on acids "the grid" that would get you started. Then you just need to eq, envelope and compress all the life an vibe out of them and you are on your way :p
#4
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #4
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 75

trannycrackhorse is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo View Post
Chop up soul breaks from the 60's. Pitch up the snares. The end.
More like the 70's. The Amen break is from 69, and yes from a musical perspective 69 is the 70's
#5
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #5
Banned
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 1,552

LimpyLoo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by trannycrackhorse View Post
More like the 70's. The Amen break is from 69, and yes from a musical perspective 69 is the 70's
Thank you for your contribution.
#6
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #6
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Brighton UK
Posts: 4,721

offki is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo View Post
Chop up soul breaks from the 60's. Pitch up the snares. The end.


When was the last time you listened to drum and bass? 1997? Things have moved on a bit..

There are no real rules about what to use, as long as the kick and snare punch through the mix. It's all in context to the vibe and what's going on in the rest of the tune.

I would guess that Xilent uses something like Superior Drummer/BFD2/XLN Drums, that, a bit of layering and then a shit load of compression to bring out the transients. Sounds like his Kicks are peaking at 100hz and the snares at 200hz, thats pretty common.

As for percussion, I'm not really sure what you're asking, you have hats, pedal, open, closed, shank, rides, bells and crashes, then all that's compressed and probably distorted running at 172bpm, did you want to stick some woodblock or cowbell in there? Claps though are sometimes used, amybe instead of a ghost note snare Listen to some tunes and see how much extra percussion you can spot. Key is the interaction between the kick,snare and hats has to be good and flowing otherwise you're going nowhere, adding a bong wont help that.

I would advise against sound like him and try and sound more like this.



Your choice tho.
#7
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #7
Banned
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 1,552

LimpyLoo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by offki View Post
I would advise against sound like him and try and sound more like this.



Your choice tho.
#8
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #8
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Brighton UK
Posts: 4,721

offki is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo View Post
Oh great you posted again. Considering your only advice was to sample music from the wrong decade, which is how it started, not how it is now, I don't really see you have anything to face palm about. Go slice up the apache break or something.

The comment you quoted was a joke, Xilent is barely even drum and bass really, I was just suggesting a better producer if he really wanted to sound like someone else, considering your advice was to sound like pretty much all drum and bass pre 2000...jesus, give me a break..
#9
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #9
Gear maniac
 
Amber_tron's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: County Durham, England.
Posts: 152

Amber_tron is offline
I don't know what you've exactly tried, but I got good results using various drum and percussion loops from DVDs like Future Music and filtering/chopping/mangling them in whatever way fit. I should add now I'm not a D&B guy, although I've had to work within the area for recent university assignments. Obviously this isn't my chosen area of production, so I was just looking for a quick fix but it helped me lay down some interesting hat/cymbal parts that I wouldn't have come across any other way.

I guess you could try something like this and maybe imitate certain parts that are going on? From friends that are close to a big D&B scene where I'm studying in Cardiff, "It's all about the break". Once this is right, things all seem to fall into place around it.
#10
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #10
Banned
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 1,552

LimpyLoo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimension View Post

Should I make my own drums/percussion? What percussion are used in DnB?

I guess the simplest way to explain my problem is not writing WHERE I put the drums/percussion, but WHAT to use for the percussion, my current WIP sounds too random, even after carefully choosing each sample..
I think the way to get the LEAST interesting results is to use packs or single hits that are specifically designed for DnB. Timbre-wise, you will sound...like everyone else.

I suggested chopping old breaks because it's a tradition in DnB. That's how it all started.

But you can grab sounds from wherever.

Take, for instance, Matmos. Say what you will about them but timbre-wise, they are as unique as they come. They took the ethos of musique concrete and applied it to DnB.

They made a song using only a pair of latex underwear ("Latex"). They made a song using only the sounds of laser eye surgery ("Lasik").

They made a song where the snare drum is the sound of a cigarette getting put out on a guy's arm ("Germs Burn for Darby Crash").

Anyway, sky's the limit. Once you've made your own sounds, using stock sounds feels a bit "missionary."
#11
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #11
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Brighton UK
Posts: 4,721

offki is offline
Only thing I took objection was that you said 'End of...', which is not a good thing to be saying to people new to the genre or scene.
#12
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #12
Banned
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 1,552

LimpyLoo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimension View Post
my current WIP sounds too random, even after carefully choosing each sample..
Wait, composition-wise or timbre-wise?

I'd be interested to hear...
#13
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
atma's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 2,775

atma is offline
it probably sounds too random because you're not using drums from the same break(s). that is what gives coherency to the sound. of course your drums will sound random if they ARE random.
#14
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #14
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Brighton UK
Posts: 4,721

offki is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
it probably sounds too random because you're not using drums from the same break(s). that is what gives coherency to the sound. of course your drums will sound random if they ARE random.
Ok, so why doesn't all music not made from the same break sound random?

This place has gone right down the shitter.

Compression and EQ are what give consistency.
#15
25th May 2012
Old 25th May 2012
  #15
digital ears love analog
 
Rogue Ai's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,166

Rogue Ai is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by offki View Post
Ok, so why doesn't all music not made from the same break sound random?

This place has gone right down the shitter.

Compression and EQ are what give consistency.
This. I use bits and pieces from breaks, drum samples and I don't think my drums sound random. I'll also add that a nice room reverb will help the drums gel together.
__________________
Synths: JV-2080, Juno-1, Xio 25, HS-80, TX81z, Fatman, JX-3P, DX9,
K1r, Eurorack Modular, Electribe EA-1,
Drum machines: Electribe ER-1, TR-505
Sampler: E-MU ESI-2000
fx: Filter Queen, Ibanez FL9, Rat 2,Boss PH-1R, Chorus, Wah, DigiTech MSP4, DL3 Delay, Alesis 3630
Daws: Reason 6.5, Cubase Studio 5
Software: Tracks 3, PPG Wave 2.V, Attack, D-Pole, Chipsounds, Synth Maker


http://rogue-ai.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/rogue-ai/music-of-the-mind-of-the-soul
#16
26th May 2012
Old 26th May 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 
atma's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 2,775

atma is offline
i'm just talking strictly in the context of dnb, at least the kind that i grew up with in the mid-nineties that was based on complex editing/rearranging/etc., of breaks. that stuff had a consistency in its sound that was related to the way the breaks were used that wouldn't have been the same had those producers just been stringing together random drum hits into those complex patterns. that being said, i'm definitely biased, as i don't care for the newer stuff that isn't based in breaks—part of the reason being is that to me it lacks a coherency in its sound that i don't think is made up for with even the best mixing techniques of compression, etc.
Deleted User
#17
26th May 2012
Old 26th May 2012
  #17
Deleted User
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by offki View Post
Compression and EQ are what give consistency.
I agree. Good mixing is the key to consistency. Compression, reverb, EQ, etc. IMO the trick lies in sending all the drum sounds to a group channel and processing them all together (as well as processing each one on its own channel too).


I like this D&B track. Sounds fantastic when playing Wipeut HD

#18
26th May 2012
Old 26th May 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 
kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Athens GR
Posts: 834

kevin nowhow is offline
A lot of producers-D'n'B or not-sample other contemporary producers' breaks & rhythm loops as well.I can't remember how many times i was amazed by someone's creativity only to find out that the sound that blew me away belonged to someone else from the same or sister genre.
Of course i'll argue that ripping off an amazing loop as such & placing it into your own composition effectively is creativity in its own right.Same principle as sampling from ancient records really...
#19
26th May 2012
Old 26th May 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Athens GR
Posts: 834

kevin nowhow is offline

[/QUOTE]

Excellent track!!!Especially those rhythms from 4:28 onwards are unbelievable!

How do they get that uber-wet chorusy snare without losing the impact?Whenever i use a send for that matter it ends up sounding...well, not like this one...
Dimension
Thread Starter
#20
28th May 2012
Old 28th May 2012
  #20
Gear maniac
 
Dimension's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Kelowna
Posts: 224

Thread Starter
Dimension is offline
Many thanks for the responses! I'll be giving elaborate responses soon, so keep em coming!
#21
28th May 2012
Old 28th May 2012
  #21
Gear maniac
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 168

8 DnB is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin nowhow View Post

How do they get that uber-wet chorusy snare without losing the impact?Whenever i use a send for that matter it ends up sounding...well, not like this one...

The key is starting with a good strong snare Peak energy at 200hz, need a bit of fizz at 8k. you need to make sure its hard enough to leave dents in steel Layered is always best. Put a clap in there if you need too, just set it to no attack, short hold and then do they decay by ear, the clap not the whole snare. I dont know what gear you use but if you can try adding some 'dynamic eq' set a eq and then boost 200hz with an envelope just so its louder at the attack stage.

Add a long reverb. gate the reverb so you get the thick 'wet' sound but not the tails. compress and then eq again, try boosting a few db at 400hz at this stage, shouldnt sound muddy it should make a strong 'slapping' sound.

Its not that hard, just takes sweat blood tears and a one minded approach to global domination.

Im making it sound a bit easier than it is, at the same time its not that hard. Use filter, envelopes and eq on the layers, use whatever you need. Kontakts saturation in drum mode can have a great effect on snares so can setting it to time machine 2 with copy transient set on.

Added.. Make sure you use a good eq for the boosts if you can. Passive style seems to work best. Softube, Abbey road.

Oh yeah. To answer the original question, it doesn't matter use whatever fits.
#22
11th June 2012
Old 11th June 2012
  #22
Gear nut
 
munnin's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Richland, WA, USA

munnin is offline
I've been hammering away at this for about 2 weeks. For my beats I take and program my beat, but I scoot things about slightly out of quantization to sound a little more natural and add a bit of groove.

I've found that dropping a loop on top of that spices things up but you need to EQ the hell out of it.

For my Kicks I usually roll off the low end at about 200hz and cut anything after about just short of 8k. My snare is eq'd at about 120hz and slightly rolled off at 20k adjusting so that my ears don't bleed. I like that route so that if for some strange reason I want to put in a sub I have plenty of space. Whether you're going to run alot of compression depends on what sound you're going for. I compress parts of my kick, which are layered, to get a punchy sound with a bit of a tail. If you start out with a good sounding sample or samples (for layering) you can get where you want. I generally spend my time listening to tracks more to figure out how they applied effects more than to hear a particular synth sound they used.

Jon Gooch is a god! His Spor and Feed Me projects are meticulously EQ'd.
#23
11th June 2012
Old 11th June 2012
  #23
Gear nut
 
munnin's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Richland, WA, USA

munnin is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin nowhow View Post
Excellent track!!!Especially those rhythms from 4:28 onwards are unbelievable!

How do they get that uber-wet chorusy snare without losing the impact?Whenever i use a send for that matter it ends up sounding...well, not like this one...[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a snare layered with a Clap with an emphasis on the clap, but then I'm sleep deprived and have been working on a track for the past 4 hours
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
sethbrand_12 / So much gear, so little time!
34
Jake 2.0 / Drums!
24
Darkening / So much gear, so little time!
3
rustyguns / So much gear, so little time!
10

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.