Korg Asking for input on product development

[mixmixmix]

Korg, ANALOG DRUM MACHINE with 8 OUTS, please. Peace

[ozy]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Note that ozy did NOT imply the usage of samples anywhere in the sentence where he mentioned "prophet and obie horns, moog and arp leads, prophet syncs", so I don't know how you reached that conclusion. I very much read that sentence as modeling those sounds with a purpose-built VA engine.

NOPE. Not even that.

I explicitly asked for a REAL ANALOGUE section in a otherwise digital workstation.

If the purpose of Korg's survey is getting new ideas, there's mine.

Nothing terribly new: it is "Kronos meets Dave Smith Polyevolver meets Studio Electronics ATC"

Of course there would be a MONO real analogue section section for the minimoog and arp 2006 and ms20, and a 4 or 8 voice section for the obie or the prophet.

This would limit the cost to human proportions.

Anybody wants a 256-voice-poliphonic ms20? They'll use the VA or samples in the digital section.

I want a analogue pad to be available in a otherwise digital "combi"

Think of a modeled rhodes, and a REAL obie, layered on each other!

For THAT, I'd pay grands.

For the Nth rompler or VA... naaahhh...

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by ozy

NOPE. Not even that.

I explicitly asked for a REAL ANALOGUE section in a otherwise digital workstation.

The more you try to cram into a single box for the same price, the more likely you are to end up with a laptop, or with a jack of all trades that's master of none

Portability soon ceases to be an advantage, especially with weighted keys. By separating the devices, you have full choice for your summing, your FX and your routing. The combination analog + rompler in a single box does not make sense at all; digital workstations need all their real estate already for preset selection, there's no room for knobs (unless you go 88 keys again, certainly not if you want both poly- and monosynths in the same device. All knobs that you move outside of the direct control area are going to be awkward/harder to reach, so there's definitely a reason why workstation interfaces are centered (the reason they're not on a Virus or Nord is because it's more cost-effective to drill the holes - one template for both desktop & keyboard version).

[nebelfrau]

I can't even envision ozy's magical machine. But, I'll try...

A full workstation, which I imagine also has all the sequencing what nots, that not only has digital guts, but analogue guts for not only an ARP synth, but all the others he mentioned. Not only that, but seperate guts for each synth he wants? On top of being able to shut off polyphony (this much seems reasonable) and have a completely monophonic signal path? ROM Rhodes and a REAL Oberheim synth in one package? Where are all these components supposed to go? Dream big, I suppose.

There has to be some kind of language barrier here.

[neoison]

I think they have alot of room left on the Kronos to expand and upgrade.. Like moving to 64bit on the mainboard.. Update the CPU to 22nm that could be underclocked and run very cool and quiet.. This would also allow up to 16gb of ram for sample data and upgrade that SSD to 120+ to make full use of the machine..


KRONOS 64

[elijahbrown]

Is it to much to want a ps 3100? Realistically, the ms 20/50 would be nice to see back on the shelf.

[ibiking]

Originally Posted by asynchro_nous

I'd love to see a Monotribe XL with all of the obvious enhancements (i think that's imminent anyway)

+100

A proper analog groovebox, with patchpoints.

[crufty]

make something nobody else has

a channelstrip controller for $50

[Melodnb]

Originally Posted by Nedavine

I so tired of mono synths. It's poly or broke IMO

I agree. No interest in the new moog and arturia offerings.

[ozy]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

The combination analog + rompler in a single box does not make sense at all

mark the date of all the above "never"s, "impossible"s, and "doesn't make any sense"s.

Let's talk about it in the future.

Analog filtering of digital acousting content, and digital effects on analogue sound, are probably the most discussed items all over this whole forum.

So, you say that it will NEVER happen taht somebody will be able to run a sequencer, record a analogue track, and master it, Oasys-style?

Never never never?

And it wouldn't make sense?

Are you sure that that's not the perspective?

You sure that the analogue/digital integration will stop to a nice "tube warmth" feature in the SV1? Or to the digital-->analogue-->digital structure of the evolver (one of the most innovative synths of the past few years, at a reasonable price, with relevant sales numbers, on the far edge of the "boutique" product)?

Everybody is going mad for analogue toys [monotron], BECAUSE they are analogue [any other reason completely evades me]

You sure that we'll not see real analogue filters on a modern rompler (or, better, acoustic modeling synth - I am not a big fan of romplers)?

Is "summing" in a mixer the same thing as routing WITHIN a synthesizer? (And: a Modular system? talk about "portability"!)

Originally Posted by Yoozer

unless you go 88 keys again, certainly not if you want both poly- and monosynths in the same device.

why?

think prophet t8,

think rhodes chroma

excellent synth for excellent leads, on wood weighted keys

[ozy]

Originally Posted by nebelfrau

Where are all these components supposed to go? Dream big, I suppose.

Check the specifications of the Studio electronics Code, or the ATCXi (the quad-filter weighs... er... 25 grams more than the single filter)

Open one of them, and take a look.

Do you know how "BIG" (in the spatial sense, not in the acoustic sense) a moog ladder filter is?

Inner space is not an issue in itself. Air conditioning is, of course. Power supply is. Panel space, can be engineered.

Yes, it would be a big machine.

So what? Is the kronos 88 small? the nordstage? Pc3k? oasys?

If I have to carry 25 kilos around, I'd better carry a lot of good sound with them.

If I tolerate 18 kilos of rompler, why wouldn't I accept 25 kilos including a complete sonic range?

If I tolerate a 4000 euros kronos (or a 3000 euros pc3k8), to which I must add 1500 euros for a prophet08, what's the problem in paying 1000 bucks more for a 8-voice analogue under the same hood? Under the same effects section? same pedals?

[disclaimer: I am a "modular" kind of guy. I use almost a separate synth for each sound. So all of the above is my estimation of a trend and possibility, not necessarily my best preference. I'd probably go on playing rompler on one hand and analogue on the other, but I definitely can see how the roland xt vocoder and phrase processor could BURN if analogue components could be integrated in it].

[HUBA]

Here's an idea for you:

Make a 2 VCO one knob per function polysix with more (audiorate) LFO's with modern features, more (fast repeatable and tempo syncable) ADSR's, Xmod, osc sync and a sequencer with the abillity to actually capture what is played without auto quantizing it.

As in you don't take away anything from the polysix, just add more without ruining anything!

Let's face it: If it was to sound exactly the same as the original polysix when only the features found on the original was used, in addition to be able to make all sorts of other things, it would mute the naysayers and create mass hysteria for sure. Seriously

After all, a knobby 2 VCO vintage poly with modern features is what everybody wants. And it would be the first big poly from Korg. Take the shape from a Trident and the polysix/Mono/poly colour and it would look bloody gorgeous. Would easily sell for $3-4K. Maybe even more.

Either that or create a new 6 voice KNOBBY 2 VCO poly with 3 LFO's with modern features, 4 fast repeatable and tempo syncable ADSR's, a crazy mod matrix and some strange extras to make it stand out. If it's gonna have fx it should be things like ringmod, distortion or BBD stuff instead of reverb, delay or other digital fx. Add tasty Trident inspired looks.

If it's the new one, it will need to do weird, sick and twisted things to make people want to choose new over some vintage alternative that everyone know will sound better doing the basic stuff anyway.

Think of it like a small, "cheap" andromeda. LOTS of knobs but only 6 voices for maybe $3-4K? If it's really good then people will pay for it and Korg would bury Roland and Yamaha for good. Word would spread among buyers and Korg would be associated with cool and could get away with pushing cheap, boring crap for many years until having to make anything interesting again.

I don't see it happen though.

Maybe just stick with creating workstations and cheap toys..

[Shy]

1. **** Facebook

2. make a high quality polyphonic analog synth, and I mean analog, not ****ing digital envelopes or whatever. You know everyone wants it. You want a perfect example of an awesome polyphonic analog synth that's also "accessible" to the common folk, feature-wise? Make a good sounding, reliable Yamaha CS-80 replacement. Anything with worse features is a waste of time.

Your company made the PS-3300, for ****'s sake, and where are you now? I'm not even asking for a super synth like that, just a proper CS-80 replacement. And DON'T feel free to omit features, but feel free to add some.

The hell with this bullshit. You know what people want. Is it not economically viable enough for you? Whatever, keep believing that. If you really invested some serious resources in it, you could make both a fine product and good money from it, for a change.

P.S. cut it out already with the ridiculous toy analog synths.

[GeorgeHayduke]

Originally Posted by Shy

.. I'm not even asking for a super synth like that, just a proper CS-80 replacement. And DON'T feel free to omit features, but feel free to add some....

Good rant!

But imo a CS-80 is an analog super synth.

[xanderbeanz]

I personally would be very happy with a hybrid machine, something like an OB matrix with more knobs.

Marry some real VCO's and filters with some powerful software. Saw, Pulse (with PWM) & Triangle waves should do it for waveforms. 4 Voice poly should be enough for most applications, remember, we're in a world where infinite overdubs are so easy that polyphony and multitimbrality aren't as important as they used to be.

CPU's and code are so much more powerful & tighter than they were in the 80's, so i wouldn't mind them using software (ie VA) envelopes and LFO's...let's give everything 1024 steps instead or 128 and only in the most extreme cases would you be able to notice any stepping.

Put some cross mod, FM, feeback and sync in there to get some nice aggressive timbres, and a mono-mode so the dubstep crowd can make dubstep wobbles with it.

The powerful software could do things like pan the VCO's around for a nice thick stereo spread, an on-board chorus would be nice too.

I think you could keep the costs down this way, all the other research (the VA bits) could be carried over from the micorkorg/radias lines, just a bit of tweaking to get it to interface with 8 monotribe VCO's and you're done!

[cuckoo.old]

First company in with a decent sounding 2 osc, 2 env poly synth with a great sound in the Prophet 08 price range wins.

I don't think VCOs vs DCOs would have too much affect as a dealbreaker if they make it sound glorious. IMO the Prophet 08 is the ideal benchmark as it's pretty much the only analogue 2 osc blah blah system in current production that most people would agree has been a commercial success, regardless of opinions on the actual synth.
Build something better sounding with similar specs at a comparable price and you could probably dominate the market much like the MiniBrute has despite the glut of mono's. By dominate I mean getting people talking, preordered and being reviewed by what would be considered either reputable or knowledgable sources. The monotribe was last years big hit, the Minibrute this years (has anyone actually got one yet? Pretty impressive for a synth few people have played).

Think hard oh Korg-ians. Choose some solar object + an integer or two and you could rule the world (or at least the few hundred people that actually care about real analogue).

[cuckoo.old]

Actually, on second thoughts, everyone would complain about something or other and get into a fight over whether the Gaia is actually a better instrument.

[GeorgeHayduke]

Originally Posted by cuckoo.old

..
I don't think VCOs vs DCOs would have too much affect as a dealbreaker if they make it sound glorious.

I think it would, since the P8 is already there..

Originally Posted by cuckoo.old

..
Build something better sounding with similar specs at a comparable price and you could probably dominate the market much like the MiniBrute has despite the glut of mono's. ..

I guess this is the sound vs. features dilemma, I think a VCO with those specs would be very expensive. Of course, if we're talking DCO, yea, it could be possible.

[volumetrik]

Originally Posted by Mach1na

This is the thing right here - cost efficiency. I just don't believe they're willing to invest in producing a fully analog polyphonic "beast", to an already niche market. It would be too much of an investment to produce - and sales predictions would be minimal at best. And like you said, most "new" analog gear costs quite a lot.

We talked a lot about this on this forum, some people think this market is just tiny others say we can't say for sure how big it is. It has obviously grown and NEW analog products are appearing all the time, if you consider how well modular is selling, DSI, Moog, MiniBrute, all these other mono's entering the game and now a VCO poly from MFB on the way and what is happening to vintage analog prices on eBay. MiniBrute does not cost a lot.

Originally Posted by Mach1na

And another monophonic synth would be pointless, in my opinion. I'm a pianist/keyboardist, but not a synth nerd - the MiniBrute didn't really turn me on at all, felt indifferent, really.

If KORG made an afordable mono with a unique sound eg. MS-20 filter it would be well worth getting and not pointless at all. Beats paying $2000 for a vintage MS-20 that might need repairs.

Originally Posted by Mach1na

And the fact is that the keyboards that sell today, are the so-called top-of-the-line "workstations" which are mostly utilized by bands from hobbyist to Billboard-topping stuff, as generic all-around "work horses".

If these companies only care about sales and were interested in only workstations why did Roland make GAIA SH-01? It would be a smaller market than the workstation one, but they still did it, and they could have had an analog board inside, the controls are all there, its not far at all from being a decent VCO or DCO poly.

[cuckoo.old]

Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke

I think it would, since the P8 is already there..


I guess this is the sound vs. features dilemma, I think a VCO with those specs would be very expensive. Of course, if we're talking DCO, yea, it could be possible.

I'm imagining (perhaps I'm deluded) a DCO analogue synth that sounds great, but isn't as polarising as DSI's Prophet 08. Some people completely love it, but others really don't like it. Maybe that's the DCOs talking, I don't know. Personally, I like the Prophet 08.

[crufty]

Originally Posted by crufty

make something nobody else has

a channelstrip controller for $50

hey dudes...pssst....while i LOVE me some analog synth, and if there is one group of engineers who are still the engineer's engineer, it's Korg...

Why a channel strip controller may make sense, and be easy/low hanging fruit
just want to point out: 99.99% of all musicians / engineers use DAWs

everyone uses sw channelstrips
- be it an actual channel strip plugin
- or eq / compressor chains

and there are NO channel strip controllers. NONE.

korg has a great 8 fader controller.

so in my mind, a knob only version of the fader, w/SSL like setup, w/a nice non SSL futuristic decal applied on top, for $50 would be TIGHT!

Pro version of controllers?
i would love an encoder version, no idea how that would work though.

In fact, I would like Korg to transport their M3/Kronos knowledge into very sleek universal daw controllers

if i had some kind single channel daw controller that fit under my mack book pro, replete with slick ass aluminum, encoders, a single motorized fader...that would be sweet. i know, euphonix, right? that shit is gigantic though. not to mention $1.5k new. Man, I don't need THAT kinda of controller. But $250-$500? yeah!

oh while i'm fantasizing
how about a a giant ribbon like the monotron, in one of those mini controller frames...

with 16 toggle buttons across the top
left,right,up,down, prev, next buttons
mode toggle (pitch or volume)
and a plastic overlay that sits over the ribbon, so that we have in effect 16 vertical ribbons for...tr style step entry!

no idea how that would actually work though, would need some kind of crazy daw integration i guess.

Back to synths
while Poly synths would be sweet, any *cough*juno*cough* chips out of IP protection?

I think it would make huge sense for Korg to also have individual drum units, instead of all in one.

Realistically, there are only three parts of a drum machine that REALLY benefit from analog oscillators:
1) KICK
2) HATS
3) SNARE

to keep costs down, make three units!
and MIDI CONTROLLABLE korg, need that

I'd start w/Hats, midi in, mono out, a few knobs

i love me nice 808 style hats..."tsk TSSSSSH tsk tsk tsk tsk"

i am not sure if these are synth hats but if it makes that sound, i am in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKQFo9tqyHE#t=0m45s

[Liquid Legacy]

With the MFB Dominion 5 coming, and the Prophet 08 already out, I don't think a polysynth is their best move unless they spice it up with some unique features like Arturia did with the Minibrute.

[asynchro_nous]

A desktop Mono/Poly with full MIDI implementation please

[flat earth]

Originally Posted by Liquid Legacy

, I don't think a polysynth is their best move unless they spice it up with some unique features like Arturia did with the Minibrute.

Its great to see all this enthusiasm towards them doing something big, but I think the most we can expect (realistically) is a 3 octave monosynth. I just hope that if they do, they also pay attention to the build quality. I would happily pay an extra £50 for something solid, rather than Microkorg XL/Micro X/X50 quality.

They really let themselves down there.

The fact they built the Monotribe in a metal case gives me hope though!

[ryandfl]

I think what would benefit everyone the most, including Korg, would be a next generation level of kickass VA. Really come over the top on sound quality along with a huge voice count. Virus TI, but to a new level of sounding great.

The TI has been the top of the heap VA, generally speaking, for a long time now. If Korg can take solid step beyond that point, they would sell a whole lot of units and gain even more creditability than jumping onto the new analog train.

[xanderbeanz]

Did no one even see my post up there? I thought that the whole "using VA for envelopes and LFO's + Analogue VCO/DCO + Filters" polysynth idea was quite a good one :(

[crufty]

Originally Posted by xanderbeanz

Did no one even see my post up there? I thought that the whole "using VA for envelopes and LFO's + Analogue VCO/DCO + Filters" polysynth idea was quite a good one :(

i liked it!

didn't waldorf do something like that? anyone have any waldorf commentary?

[crufty]

i thought trident vst was good too

[cuckoo.old]

Originally Posted by Liquid Legacy

With the MFB Dominion 5 coming, and the Prophet 08 already out, I don't think a polysynth is their best move unless they spice it up with some unique features like Arturia did with the Minibrute.

MFB not yet out, so that counts for little IMO.

There were plenty of analogue mono's but look at the reaction to the Minibrute.

I think whoever actually releases the next analogue Poly (or even has a semi-working prototype at a trade-show) will have a big advantage.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by ozy

mark the date of all the above "never"s, "impossible"s, and "doesn't make any sense"s.

Let's talk about it in the future.

Analog filtering of digital acousting content, and digital effects on analogue sound, are probably the most discussed items all over this whole forum.

Yes. Dedicated filtering, as in, you buy a completely separate device for that.

Integrating features does not necessarily result in better devices. Preamps in mixers? Neat, but not always as good as having a dedicated box. Reverb in the synth? Nice (but most of the time, terrible) and so far removed from a Bricasti or classic Lexicon that it's not even funny anymore.

Yes, you can invent a single device that does it all, but if it needs to be of any quality, it's going to be expensive. It's a feature, not a bug - that you can buy your setup in parts and upgrade them when needed. When one unit breaks, it doesn't immediately make the rest of the setup useless.

The price point is fixed. Higher price, and people will hesitate to buy. Lower price, and more people might buy it, but the real watershed is if you go to a lower price point, not knock a few hundred off, because then you're talking to a completely different group of people as well, instead of a few who want to be in the premium group but are held back by a few bucks.

$3K gets you a workstation. If that means that you have to integrate analog tech in there, you can't decide to jack up the price - not even for an extra $500. If you merely recycle what you already have, then it doesn't innovate or add value.

So, you have to somehow save on those other bits, and save on the analog bits you're going to put in there, and that's going to make everything suffer at the same time. That - while the market for real analog monosynths with knobs is nearly saturated.

The people who buy workstations - if they care for analog, they'll buy a Little Phatty or Voyager to go with it, because that's going to be better than the SMD stuff crammed in the workstation, and it's going to be easier to operate because a workstation only has so much real estate to put an interface.

First and foremost, they buy it because it's not a laptop and you still get a giant selection of sounds - plus an excellent-feeling keyboard that's better than any of the other products in the range. That's what workstations are; pick something different, and you sacrifice in terms of sound and/or the keyboard feel (Yamaha MO/MM series) or you get a form factor you don't want (S90XS) with a tiny display.

You sure that the analogue/digital integration will stop to a nice "tube warmth" feature in the SV1?

Proper tubes are dangerous to touch. They're not comparable to "let's put LEDs behind a starved plate design".

You sure that we'll not see real analogue filters on a modern rompler (or, better, acoustic modeling synth - I am not a big fan of romplers)?

For 256 voice-polyphony, you need 256 filters. You know how much space a proper multimode filter takes up? If you want to make them in CEM-form, sure, go ahead, but you have to restart production for that kind of stuff again, and that's expensive.

Unless you want to pull a Waldorf and only put in 16 of 'm which means you always have to pick and choose when and for what you're going to use them. But - if you know romplers, you know that each preset may use up to 8 of those multisamples (which divides the total polyphony by 8), so having 16 analog filters for a completely full-featured lead sound may get you 2 voices at most. For a lead sound. Which you're going to to pay a whopping $1500 extra for because all that analog stuff still needs to be digitally controlled and fully integrated with the rest of the path of the workstation.