Login / Register
 
Can you hear the difference between mp3 and wav?
New Reply
Subscribe
#181
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #181
Gear addict
 
masaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 485

masaski is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha View Post
I'm sorry. I'm not willing to do a worse job at something I understand because of uneducated, hypocritical, lazy people, some of whom can't read or write at a high school level.
How do you even know that some forum members are not writing in English as their second or third language?

How many languages do you speak or write in?

You really know how work a room...uneducated, hypocritical, lazy? People could get offended if they actually gave a f**k...
__________________
"Hype kills your soul"
#182
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #182
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 16,236

Sounds Great is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by masaski View Post
People could get offended if they really gave a f**k...

lol
#183
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #183
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,601

Reptil is offline
oh c'mon man stop the dramatic theatre, do you know how you come across?
"I'm an educated person and I have a good test, and if the stupid peons don't want to coƶperate and submit themselves to my superior intellectual powers of deduction, then they MUST be lazy and uneducated. Otherwise they'd understand their menial occupations are vastly outclassed by the huge importance of my work. It'd be ridiculous to listen to their feedback since they're as dumb as rocks anyway. Even dj folk are more malleable and show some sign of progress... but not this crowd. Hopeless they are.."
Your first post is not condescending but when you don't recieve the necessary attention to satisfy your ego/job requirements, it goes downhill fast.
*sigh*
It takes 3 minutes to post this. your test is MUCH longer.

Another couple of questions:
And why would you want the results as PMs? Why can't people just post this? You'll get more results this way, and your motivation would be percieved as contribution to the forum, instead of for the purpose of some unknown requirement.
But FIRST I'd like to see you explain first the relevance of this test in a studio environment before you label and categorise my and other people's posts (audio producers who contributed more to this forum than you have, and who have made some brilliant music and shown to have a good ear for music production ) as irrelevant, if you please?


sooooo.....

Next week I'll have some time off... now what should I do.. take an MP3 test which is of no interest to me personally, and will bring NO new information, with the sole purpose of causing a "scientist" to extrapolate a woody/payment of unheard of proportions... orrrrr.........
mess around with some glitchy experiments in the fun part of my studio and then go have a swim in the lake and go to the park, drink wine and find out if girls are still made of the same stuff??

hmmm difficult descision!

Look man... lose the condescending attitude, devise a shorter test (which will undoubtedly fukk up your bosses targets) and I'll play. Just for fun ok?
__________________
"You must have Chaos within you, to give Birth to a dancing Star" Friedrich Nietzsche

for sale a complete SERGE SYNTHESIZER (Creature, EQ-Shift, BOG)

for sale EURORACK MODULAR CASE


#184
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #184
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,937

maisonvague is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha View Post
I'm sorry. I'm not willing to do a worse job at something I understand because of uneducated, hypocritical, lazy people, some of whom can't read or write at a high school level.
I can understand your frustration with some of the reactions to your test, but this is a really uncool statement.

I would also like to reiterate that 45 minutes is a lot to ask of people! A lot! We know what's in it for you (statistics) but what's in it for them? More self confidence? Less self confidence? With all due respect, you should be begging people to take your test -- not trying to make them feel bad for whatever reasons they may have for not wanting (or being unable) to take it. To arrogantly dismiss the time factor is just plain... well, arrogant!

Honestly, when anyone tells me "Man, I downloaded your last album and listened to the whole thing in one sitting! (all 35 minutes of it)" I am truly grateful. Despite being a collection of individual songs it was painstakingly crafted to work as an entire album. But I never actually expected anyone to listen to the whole thing from start to finish in one sitting -- especially not in this era of iTunes shuffle and single track downloads. So I am always pleased when someone does. More like, honored. Because 35 minutes is a lot to ask of people -- even my closest friends. In a world so full of choices....

Regarding the whole MP3 vs WAV debate, no one could articulate my own personal views on the subject better than this man:

#185
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #185
Lives for gear
 
timbreman's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,372

Send a message via MSN to timbreman Send a message via Yahoo to timbreman
timbreman is offline
The biggest problem for me with mp3 isn't the sound quality but the additional dead air that's put in the front of the file because of the format. It makes it hard to use them as loops or for mixing when the beginning of the file isn't really the beginning of the audio.
__________________
------------------------
Premium loops available for audio production, media and remix.

www.loopartists.com

------------------------
#186
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #186
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 16,236

Sounds Great is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post

Regarding the whole MP3 vs WAV debate, no one could articulate my own personal views on the subject better than this man:

"If it doesn't rock, you're s o l.

Great video.
#187
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #187
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,601

Reptil is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by timbreman View Post
The biggest problem for me with mp3 isn't the sound quality but the additional dead air that's put in the front of the file because of the format. It makes it hard to use them as loops or for mixing when the beginning of the file isn't really the beginning of the audio.
good point
but that's what automatic beatmatching software is for innit?
#188
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #188
Lives for gear
 
timbreman's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,372

Send a message via MSN to timbreman Send a message via Yahoo to timbreman
timbreman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
"If it doesn't rock, you're s o l.

Great video.
The irony of that video is how terrible the audio quality on his voice is in it.
#189
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #189
Lives for gear
 
timbreman's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,372

Send a message via MSN to timbreman Send a message via Yahoo to timbreman
timbreman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
good point
but that's what automatic beatmatching software is for innit?
I have no idea I don't use beatmatching software. I do it manually in my DAW. Just a pain to zoom in on every mp3 just to cut out that silence in the beginning.
Deleted User
#190
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #190
Deleted User
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Come on... There will never be a real answer to such a stupid question simply because you cannot compare the whole MP3 format. Making such a question only shows you are quite an ignorant in terms digital encoding.

If instead you had said how does compare a "44.1K/16bit wav" to a "Lame encoded MP3 at 320kbps with VBR" then it would prove you at least have some understanding of the format and people would maybe take you more seriously IMO. (I would)

If anything, I'd say you are the uneducated and lazy person that didn't even spend 10 minutes reading the wikipedia entry for MP3.

MP3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And BTW, english is my 4th language, so I'm sorry if my writing is not clear.
#191
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #191
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,601

Reptil is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by timbreman View Post
I have no idea I don't use beatmatching software.
me neither.
#192
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #192
Lives for gear
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,155

golden beers is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha View Post
not a single person has submitted results or even said anything about it except that they're too lazy to do it.
i for one am not too lazy to do it. watch your wording. or you'll piss good people off
__________________
_____________________________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
The knob on the Source is perhaps the ballsiest knob ever made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo View Post
My gearection has gone from 'Fairchild' to 'Behringer'...
Quote:
Originally Posted by apprenticemart2 View Post
I like the sample packs with booby girls on the front cover or sound engineers lookin' 'ard as fur.
#193
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #193
Banned
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 607

Ausgeno is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfatturdeater View Post
My frend gave me his cd which is only 34 minutes and I skiped a lot of that
Lol, nice.
#194
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #194
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,937

maisonvague is offline
@mostapha Out of curiosity I downloaded the file last night and had a go at your test. I have to say, it was not an enjoyable experience, after which I wrote a rather angry and critical post which I then later deleted. Having given it some more thought, I've decided to re-write that post in a less angry fashion. I would like to offer you instead some honest constructive criticism in an effort to make something positive out of the experience.

I agree with Reptil: while your initial post was not condescending, as things began to turn sour, you turned sour as well. This was unfortunate. This also biased me against your test right from the start. I perceived the tone of your presentation to be somewhat flippant and dismissive. I also thought the statement of "calling out" any cheaters was off-putting. And then, at the end of it -- after 45 minutes (!) -- instead of saying "Thank you for listening" or "Thank you for participating" you chose to say "Congratulations!" Congratulations? On what, may I ask? The point is, there is an arrogant and ungrateful tone to your presentation which did not go over well with me, I'm sorry.

Regarding the test itself, I think the design was good and well thought out. I have issues, however, with your selection of music. In some cases I could not distinguish the excerpts with complete confidence; in others I felt I could. But the music itself -- that is, the source material -- was so lacking in interest and color to begin with, it simply did not matter to me after awhile what differences I was hearing (or imagining). I feel more variety in the material would have made the test more meaningful and conclusive. No vocals? No prominent acoustic instruments? No jazz or classical -- music with exceptional dynamic range? These are all instances where MP3 encoding can dramatically impact the integrity of a recording -- instances where the issue really has meaning! The narrowness of your source material totally undermines any conclusions which might be drawn from the results -- that is, unless you redefine your objective to a narrow genre of music. Granted, you posted this in an electronic music forum, but the issue of MP3 vs. WAV is much broader. Still, even within the electronic music field, the subtleties of e.g. high quality analog instruments can be audibly compromised by MP3 encoding. I did not detect any clear examples of this kind of instrumentation in your source material.

As a result of these criticisms, I've decided not to submit my results to the test. You are free to interpret that decision however you like. I'll just conclude by recommending that the next time you put together such a test you (1) make it shorter (30 minutes MAX), (2) chose a broader variety of source material, and (3) show more humility and gratitude in your presentation.
#195
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #195
Lives for gear
 
projektk's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,231

projektk is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuckoo.old View Post
Some people have given various reasons questioning the validity/integrity of your test.

Some people have stated they could only tell the difference in certain situations.

Some peope have stated your test is too long.

All of these are valid reasons.



Quotes like this with no disclaimers - perhaps these people should take the text.

Also, make the test shorter than 45 minutes. Maybe 10-15 minutes tops and I bet more people would be willing to have a go.
Unless the test is a lie you should be able to hear a difference. If you record a band and bounce down to 44.1 kHz 16 bit quality and then turn that file into an MP3 you can hear the difference. Not necessarily a bad difference but its audible. I'm not anti mp3, I just know that every piece of work I have is not as dynamic when they are a mp3.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Gearslutz App
#196
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #196
Lives for gear
 
Praxisaxis's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,580

Praxisaxis is online now
In all honesty I would have done the test if it was easier to download (I tried it twice and the DL stalled) and if it was shorter.
__________________
-------------------------
New tune... prepared piano and electronics
https://soundcloud.com/praxisaxis/piano-grains-free-dl-also-see
#197
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #197
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Hellbourne, OZ
Posts: 1,153

cuckoo.old is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by projektk View Post
Unless the test is a lie you should be able to hear a difference. If you record a band and bounce down to 44.1 kHz 16 bit quality and then turn that file into an MP3 you can hear the difference. Not necessarily a bad difference but its audible. I'm not anti mp3, I just know that every piece of work I have is not as dynamic when they are a mp3.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Gearslutz App
What are you encoding the mp3 at? Are you encoding at the highest possible rate and still noticing a difference, or some compromise rate between file size and fidelity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post

....snip...

Regarding the test itself, I think the design was good and well thought out. I have issues, however, with your selection of music. In some cases I could not distinguish the excerpts with complete confidence; in others I felt I could. But the music itself -- that is, the source material -- was so lacking in interest and color to begin with, it simply did not matter to me after awhile what differences I was hearing (or imagining). I feel more variety in the material would have made the test more meaningful and conclusive. No vocals? No prominent acoustic instruments? No jazz or classical -- music with exceptional dynamic range? These are all instances where MP3 encoding can dramatically impact the integrity of a recording -- instances where the issue really has meaning! The narrowness of your source material totally undermines any conclusions which might be drawn from the results -- that is, unless you redefine your objective to a narrow genre of music.


...snip...

I'll just conclude by recommending that the next time you put together such a test you (1) make it shorter (30 minutes MAX), (2) chose a broader variety of source material, and (3) show more humility and gratitude in your presentation.


Is that not dissimilar to some of the points I made?

Other contributors to this forum have also stated a number of factors affecting the validity of the text.
#198
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #198
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,937

maisonvague is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuckoo.old View Post
Is that not dissimilar to some of the points I made?
No, it is... not... dissimilar (lol -- had to think about that for a second). Just to be clear, I'm with you. There are many valid reasons for not wanting or being able to take the test.

I can also totally understand the desire to face palm such tests, given the degree of exasperation one can feel by either taking the test or not taking the test. It's a lose-lose situation when you get right down to it. Rather than trying to test each other's abilities to distinguish between MP3 and WAV in blind tests, as musicians we should be doing what Massenburg says which is uniting together and saying to the industry "Don't do that!" (@3:15)
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Chaylon / So much gear, so little time!
39
Ntchi / So much gear, so little time!
4
85db / So much gear, so little time!
31
Blast9 / So much gear, so little time!
10
CareerTech1 / So much gear, so little time!
15

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.