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Behringer really that bad?
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#31
6th May 2012
Old 6th May 2012
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OP: i dont know any hardware guys that don't have 1 piece of berry kit in the studio. just have a look in the gear porn sticky.. you'll see plenty of them.

i too have some behringer kit in the form of a couple of dynamic filters. they do the job just fine. not quite as well as my drawmer unit i hasten to add.

so as been said it depends on the product. not all berry stuff is bad. but as an example of what this company do, they have a tube compressor. the valve's are on the front panel in view. cool! you think.. until you realise that they are backlit to give the impression that they are glowing.

i disagree from personal experience that their patchbays are good. i wouldn't get a behringer patch bay. because of bad connectivity and bad build quality. but that's just my experience.

my friend has one of their little mixers. i don't like it but it works. i would recommend something 'better' from ebay. spend a couple of hundred and get something with low noise resistors and closer to unity gain.

i remember i had a behringer 24 channel eurodesk as my first studio desk. it was pretty cool. the day we replaced it with a soundcraft desk was an ear opener. we just put the radio through a couple of channels so we could have some tunes while we were wiring up. and noticed straight away. i mean it's incredible the difference a good mixer makes even on 1 channel with no eq. people use the phrase 'the difference was night and day'.. well i can tell you this is what it was like for us. from behringer to a real pro desk was completely that.
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#32
6th May 2012
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yeah you'd be better off buying a good mixer secondhand on ebay, and parallel to that; learn how to solder and do basic repairs.
You'll have a better sound, it'll be cheaper, you don't feel like a ****** for trashing another toxic pcb every other year, and maintaining and upgrading gear yourself may feel like a chore at first, but it's actually liberating once you've done it.

there's bargains for those who care to look. gear that cost tens of thousands only 12 years ago, now up for a few hundred. I really don't know why anyone would still want to be in the buy new-trash-buy new-trash-buy new cycle. I mean it made sense 10 years ago, when ppl. were holding on to analogue and good gear was priced accordingly, but now you can easily get something much much better secondhand.

example: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Midas-Venice-...80291480248591
or this bargain!!! http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mischpult-Sou...item4d00bbb4e0
I had one of these once, very powerful eq http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mitec-Mischpu...item19d09ab383
or this: http://www.ebay.de/itm/BK-2432-/3208...item4ab708df71
this is actually a TGB, not a TAB, high quality: http://www.ebay.de/itm/TAB-T40-Misch...item3f16e72183
or this: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mitec-1602-Mi...item4ab7096903
couple of euros.. you got to pick it up though...
or this monster: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Soundcraft-60...item3f16b8769c
or this Mitsubishi Westar (Quad Eight) http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mitsubishi-We...item4ab6fb36ac for the really brave souls
so forget bhgringerer, there's PLENTY better stuff out there, and get off your lazy computer chair and own it.
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#33
6th May 2012
Old 6th May 2012
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Q: Behringer really that bad?

A: yes
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#34
6th May 2012
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Guess I7ll just stick with my patch bay for now. I'll keep a peeper on Yahoo auction for some old second hand stuff.

Thanks for all the input btw
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#35
6th May 2012
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Oh yes I forgot I have a BCF2000 controller. It doesn't process any audio and works well. The flying faders are not like the faders on my former Yamaha mixer withmotorized faders, but still it works and makes a good value for the money (80 bucks from a friend's studio).

My impression of the statements in this thread so far is that users are not, for one reason or another, 100% happy with the analog processeing of the of Behringer gear, a little more satisfied with the DA/ADstuff and pretty much ok with the products that doesn't affect the sound, like controllers etc.
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#36
6th May 2012
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V-Amp Pro sounds better than any Line 6 crap guitar modeling amp. Tried and tested. The only thing that can do better (but for a helluva lot more money) is the Axe-FX thingie.
#37
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax View Post
Many things have changed since the MX8000 and the 90s you know...it also has to do with the use...if you want a mixer to step on it, then get a Mackie... :P (advertising reference)
Sure things have changed.
But they still rip designs off and I don't want to be supporting that.
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#38
6th May 2012
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one BIG NAME in dnb I know make music on old behringer monitors.... his mixdowns are killer
#39
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
i disagree from personal experience that their patchbays are good. i wouldn't get a behringer patch bay. because of bad connectivity and bad build quality. but that's just my experience.

I'm going to have to second this as I bought their patchbay some years ago, hearing also that they were 'really good.' It was fine for a while, but one by one it lost channels, got finicky/noisy, etc. I still haven't replaced it, though. No idea why...
#40
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston135 View Post
Anything behringer i've had hasn't lasted any longer than 2 years.
I bought a Behringer mixer back in 1996 and it only packed up sometime in 2009. Not bad for an inexpensive mixer which was used both in the studio and live. I actually lugged this mixer with me around to many live gigs and it has not sustained any damage whatsoever. Very well built, I'd say. In the end what has gone wrong is the channels stopped functioning and I could only listen to them in the PFL mode. So off it went into the garden shed.

I've also bought a Behringer compressor and a feedback destroyer unit at the same time. Both work well (haven't used them in years, though).
#41
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Sure things have changed.
But they still rip designs off and I don't want to be supporting that.
That's a valid reason...
#42
6th May 2012
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#43
6th May 2012
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That legal history is startling. I knew about the Mackie situation, but not about the other issues. Hmmm...
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6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neodym View Post
one BIG NAME in dnb I know make music on old behringer monitors.... his mixdowns are killer
i know someone that smoked 20 a day and lived to be 97
#45
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himalaya View Post
That legal history is startling. I knew about the Mackie situation, but not about the other issues. Hmmm...
I don't think this is something that should concern customers though. Especially when the judges have made their decisions and the prices are fair. Companies will always do legal battles to gain control over profits. Users just buy whatever is useful to them according their budget and needs.

Behringer has helped many people to get into music production and I believe that they have even helped bigger/older companies to sell even more products, because of all that buzz around copyright infringements and low quality...

Anyway, I never respected so much Mackie, or most of Peavey's products...I don't think that they are actually much better than their "Behringer clones".
#46
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax View Post
I don't think this is something that should concern customers though. ....snip.....
disagree. I think that's abject nonsense.
of course you, as an adult, free person with full faculties, bear responsibillity for the action that you take. that also means choosing your instruments, making informed descisions on the basis of ethical considerations. IMO freedom and responsibillity are two sides of the same coin.
the idea that a consumer is not a person; is not supposed to make that choice, is revolting to me, and I reject the idea, no matter if it's prevalent throughout our corporative societies.
This all may sound kindof dramatic, possibly you didn't mean it like that, but I think the underlying idea of nihilism, as expressed within, to me, as a free person, is just wrong.
#47
6th May 2012
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i have three of their mixers, all work great, all have very little noise

I have a v amp pro and a t1952...both great

no one would know if you used the xenyx or not...I use an RX1602 with all my synths, doesnt make them gritty, noisy, or thin sounding
#48
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
This all may sound kindof dramatic, possibly you didn't mean it like that, but I think the underlying idea of nihilism, as expressed within, to me, as a free person, is just wrong.
I believe that you got it wrong. I meant that, generally, legal battles of various companies, must be treated by justice and not by their customers. Of course, if the person/consumer is somehow "attached" to a company about some specific values he/she supports, then, it could be better for him/her to be informed about all these legal actions and make some appropriate decisions about which company to support... Personally, I believe that in the case where no human lives are threatened by some of the company's actions, most of us could still live happy and make music with whatever we can buy in a music store, no matter what legal battles are behind those products....after all, there will always be legal battles between big companies...it's a well known method of creating a status and making more money.
#49
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodnb View Post


I've got a few behringer pieces. It really depends on what unit you're looking at.

I just bought an old Berry 8024 EQ and it works wonderfully. My v-verb is great and I quite enjoy my 2031p monitors. Got a bunch of EP2500's and a couple EP1500's. Great amplifiers.

As far as mixers, I can't say. I went ahead with a yamaha mixer as I didn't really like the behringer mixers that were out at the time.
as long you are happy... but better dont try the good stuff..
#50
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordonmerrick View Post
I'm going to have to second this as I bought their patchbay some years ago, hearing also that they were 'really good.' It was fine for a while, but one by one it lost channels, got finicky/noisy, etc. I still haven't replaced it, though. No idea why...
theire patchbays are crap and using just half of the mettal in the jack connectors as the cheap chinese neutrik stuff..that is not more expensive than the behringer stuff anyway... so really no reason to go down the behringer patchpanel road...
#51
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
i know someone that smoked 20 a day and lived to be 97
I dont say Behringer isnt garbage,but that person is easily among most famous and best dnb producers,we all heard it many times but now again,with great knowledge,skill and experience one can make one of best mixdowns in world with surprisingly horrible speakers,but he probably dont even need to listen when making music he probably can make killer tune without listening it just looking at wave editor,freqency analyser and sonograph... true story
#52
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax View Post
I believe that you got it wrong. I meant that, generally, legal battles of various companies, must be treated by justice and not by their customers. Of course, if the person/consumer is somehow "attached" to a company about some specific values he/she supports, then, it could be better for him/her to be informed about all these legal actions and make some appropriate decisions about which company to support...
You assume courts are fair and outside the influence of corporations.
If our choice is not required, what does that say about us? I disagree vehemently with the idea to leave ethical descisions to someone else, regardless of what some court decides. If you refuse to take responsibillity for your own actions, you're IMHO not a free person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax View Post
Personally, I believe that in the case where no human lives are threatened by some of the company's actions, most of us could still live happy and make music with whatever we can buy in a music store, no matter what legal battles are behind those products....after all, there will always be legal battles between big companies...it's a well known method of creating a status and making more money.
Next you'll tell me to go watch the Kardassians and not talk so much.

Unethical business practices only are adressed when profits are threatened, and that means customers have to vote with their wallet in a capitalist system.
An example is that Foxconn was (supposedly) a sweatshop. Some say it was, some say it wasn't. Important in this respect is that the possibillity did have a negative feedback on the value of AAPL. (The Algos read headlines too.) Do we have capitalism?

Ever heard of Edward Bernays, the inventor of "public relations"?
#53
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neodym View Post
I dont say Behringer isnt garbage,but that person is easily among most famous and best dnb producers,we all heard it many times but now again,with great knowledge,skill and experience one can make one of best mixdowns in world with surprisingly horrible speakers,but he probably dont even need to listen when making music he probably can make killer tune without listening it just looking at wave editor,freqency analyser and sonograph... true story
I believe you on your word. It's very important to know your speakers like the back of your hand. Over time your brain translates the results of that set of speakers, to what you've experienced in a club. Abillity and experience trumps gear. There are plenty of other examples like this.

But... My mum (bless her) always told me "If they all jump in the canal, does that mean you have to do the same?" (there's a lot of canals here)
One of the (few) plus sides of being an independent artist is to decide your own instruments. I choose something that suits me, thank you very much.
#54
6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neodym View Post
I dont say Behringer isnt garbage,but that person is easily among most famous and best dnb producers,we all heard it many times but now again,with great knowledge,skill and experience one can make one of best mixdowns in world with surprisingly horrible speakers,but he probably dont even need to listen when making music he probably can make killer tune without listening it just looking at wave editor,freqency analyser and sonograph... true story
i don't doubt it. my point was there's an exception to every rule. and btw i've got no problem with their monitors. great for the price point.
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6th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post

Unethical business practices only are adressed when profits are threatened, and that means customers have to vote with their wallet in a capitalist system.
An example is that Foxconn was (supposedly) a sweatshop. Some say it was, some say it wasn't. Important in this respect is that the possibillity did have a negative feedback on the value of AAPL. (The Algos read headlines too.) Do we have capitalism?

Ever heard of Edward Bernays, the inventor of "public relations"?

I don't believe in capitalism. I also don't think that Behringer does something so wrong to make consumers reconsider their purchases. In the case of AAPL, there was something MUCH more important IMO...human lives. That was something very different.

Daily corporate legal battles in the style of "you stole my design/code", are everywhere...even behind the company that makes your coffee cup...and I don't think that every consumer has the time to investigate if there are legal issues with the company that makes their coffee cups, their socks or their vacuum cleaner, because there are always those kinds of legal issues (I talk about copyright infringements) with big companies...

As a person and as a consumer, I have these priorities when I buy a product:
1.Respect my economical priorities/needs
2.Respect the purpose of the purchase
3.Respect nature
4.Respect human lives

Reptil, regardless of our Behringer conversation, I admire the way you think...people like you, are VERY few. That's a higher level of idealism for me though, and there is always something that keeps me inside the "matrix" you are avoiding with your brilliant ethos.

edit: thanks for the very interesting film you have linked! I will watch it soon!
#56
6th May 2012
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thank you for the praise. i don't know if I'm worthy, but I honestly try.
I do look at where gear is coming from, and I think that if ppl. are more conscious about even the little things, this planet wouldn't be so messed up.
check the Bernays link, it's a "red pill". information is king
#57
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Behringer gear I've used:

HPS3000 headphones - cheap, plasticky, bassy and inaccurate but I like them. The plastic has crumbled and I've fixed them with tape.

V-Amp - pretty darn good, like a Pod but with a much better interface. Encoders with LED rings? Even at the 150 pounds I paid it was a good deal.

Virtualizer DSP2024P - good basic effects unit. Decent sound quality, loads of algorithms, easy yet not too limited editing with multiple encoders.

V-Verb REV2496 - very good sound quality, needed a repair by Thomann but fine after that. Sold it because it was too clean, probably a mistake!

CC300 Space Chorus Dimension C pedal clone - overloads easily with synths but amazing for the price.

VP1 phaser pedal (Small Stone clone) - can overload easily too but sounds great.

MDX2200 Composer compressor - their first SMT version of the Composer. Did the job but sucked up some of the bass of the original signal. Transformer vibrated a bit. Sold it.

MDX2100 Composer compressor - bought this earlier version afterwards, I think it's great. Sounds better than the 2200.

XR2000 Intelligate dual gate - same era as the MDX2100, works very well. No complaints.

EX3100 Ultrafex II - all analogue exciter, bass and stereo widener, I like it. Same era as the above two. All through hole construction. Not bomb proof but pretty well made I would say.

Ultrapatch PX1000 patcbay - A bit like the Neutrik ones where you have to swap the cards round to alter the normalling. Too fiddly for me so I sold it.

Ultrapatch Pro PX2000 Unbalanced patchbay - bought this s/h, it's been fine so far.

Utrapatch Pro PX3000 Balanced patchbay - bought two of these new, fine so far. You get a lot of metal for the money, they're heavy. The switches are very handy. Maybe the plating on the contacts isn't too great though? Or maybe the spring pressure? Time will tell.

Overall they've been good value for money, not too many stinkers. I'd like to try one of their big mixers one day to see if they're really as bad as people say.
#58
7th May 2012
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Legal battles between companies over so called theft go on all the time. Look at Apple and Samsung, they go to war in the courtroom every day but they also continue to do business with one another all the time on the supply side of things. This is business.

I mean saying someone stole your mixer design is pretty hard when all mixers tend to follow a certain format due to their nature. And if the argument upheld it is really only the opinion of the court. Lots of innocent people in jail

Behringer also license other companies' designs, ie Pioneer DJM mixers. This is a 'legal' ripoff.

My point is to make decisions about products based on the perceived behavior of a company is wrong headed - you never know the full story. If the product suits your need and your budget and you know what to expect quality wise then it's a good basis for a decision. THIS is why I won't buy Behringer. (certain products already mentioned excepted)
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#59
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I've been hammering the crap out of a UMA25-s keyboard for years now and it's still rocking. The integrated soundcard ain't bad either.

Also been impressed with some of their guitar pedal clones.

I don't really like their mixers or rack gear. I don't see myself as a gear snob, but in general I try to avoid cheap Chinese stuff these days (and not just music gear - though it's sooo hard to avoid!).
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#60
7th May 2012
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Saw a Yamaha MG12/4 the older type with the ins and outs at the back of the unit. 10,000 yen. But pricey but I'm tempted.
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