Is this the analogue forum - I NEED analoge

[Morechips]

We are all secretely ebay sellers price hiking.....and its working wonders!

I have seen TR707s go from about 150 GBP to 400 plus over the last 2 years!!!!!!!!!!!

GS and youtube have a lot to answer for

[zerocrossing]

Well... for a forum that's about music/audio hardware there is a fair amount of talk about good plug ins. There was a very long discussion about U-He's DiVA when it was first released and it got a lot of (justified) attention. When a crap "me too" plug gets released (and you know who you are!) the discussion is very short. Want a long discussion about a crap plug in? Go to KVR.

[LiveFromKyoto]

Originally Posted by dr_Jezz

Or, alternatively is it the Electronic Music Instruments & Electronic Music Production ... FFS ... just asking. I'll either be ignored or have to get my flame suit on, but really what is all this crap about on a forum about electronic music making - my point being this duality is stuuuuuuuuuuupiiiiiiiddddddd. I got into electronic music making when it was only analogue and was soooo pleased to see the advances, even when my gear started being worth nothing (often for good reason). Sometimes this place seems more like a daytime antique show - yeah I know it's Gearslutz - but that's kind of the point. Move on and don't try to push the prices up for crap. Discuss?

Sometimes the analog fetishism reaches ludicrous heights, but there often is an appreciable difference in punch and thickness when sitting in front of analog gear vs digital.

And I say this as a guy whose studio is mostly digital (with no complaints, once it gets into the DAW then the mix/master a lot of the difference goes imo).

[squatski]

jupiter 8
prophet 5
cs-80

there, said it, now with that out the way we can carry on with the thread knowing the every-thread-must-contain-these-words-at-some-point have been dealt with.

[cuckoo.old]

Originally Posted by dr_Jezz

Or, alternatively is it the Electronic Music Instruments & Electronic Music Production ... FFS ... just asking. I'll either be ignored or have to get my flame suit on, but really what is all this crap about on a forum about electronic music making - my point being this duality is stuuuuuuuuuuupiiiiiiiddddddd. I got into electronic music making when it was only analogue and was soooo pleased to see the advances, even when my gear started being worth nothing (often for good reason). Sometimes this place seems more like a daytime antique show - yeah I know it's Gearslutz - but that's kind of the point. Move on and don't try to push the prices up for crap. Discuss?

Depends on who you are talking to, and what you are saying.

There are different ways to ask exactly the same thing. You're far more likely to be flamed or ignored for rushing in with half-baked assumptions and a victim's attitude, instead of pleasantly trying to ask the same question.

[Franc]

Originally Posted by squatski

jupiter 8
prophet 5
cs-80

there, said it, now with that out the way we can carry on with the thread knowing the every-thread-must-contain-these-words-at-some-point have been dealt with.

You may want to add the Model D to that list.

Well my two dream synths are - Elka Synthex and PPG Wave 2.2/3.

[LiveFromKyoto]

Originally Posted by squatski

jupiter 8
prophet 5
cs-80

there, said it, now with that out the way we can carry on with the thread knowing the every-thread-must-contain-these-words-at-some-point have been dealt with.

303, 808, and "my Andromeda."

[verve92]

I just picked up a DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard.
Yes this is the analog (and digital) forum.
Reap the rewards of both!

[Headz51230]

It's too late for the 808s cs80 model D etc but I'm concerned now about all the previously cheaper alternatives skyrocketing like the 707 above. We could all stop name dropping gear but then what would be the purpose of this forum.

Sent from my PG06100 using Gearslutz App

[Hazmatic]

Originally Posted by dr_Jezz

Sometimes this place seems more like a daytime antique show

Sometimes?

A good number of people here feel that their vintage synths are very modern sounding...of course, they're the same people still stuck in the 80's....

[gruvsyco]

I'm amazed at some of the truly shit stuff that is escalating in value. TR707 RUFN serious.

[Headz51230]

707 is not a POS just not worth 500. Er nvm yeah its junk

[Liquid Legacy]

Synths are the exact opposite of women; they only get more attractive with age. A 20 year old synth barely raises any eyebrows, a 30 year old synth can be pretty hot, but when it's nearing 40 it gets down right irresistible to many men.

[Batchainpuller78]

Originally Posted by Hazmatic

Sometimes?

A good number of people here feel that their vintage synths are very modern sounding...of course, they're the same people still stuck in the 80's....

pfff I already cop out before the 80's, synths became lame then

There are also a number on people on here that think there's new music with their modern tools.. who yes sound a bit more 'modern' but there hasn't been any new music since the late 90's which was the last moment of abusing technology to create new sounds and form of composition not unlike the tape cutters of the 40's/50's/60's.
What happened then is people became users of technology which is streamlined to perform the tasks the creativity of the abusers created.

So today those things sound more 'modern' but there is nothing new under the sun.

[NWSooner]

Originally Posted by Hazmatic

Sometimes?

A good number of people here feel that their vintage synths are very modern sounding...of course, they're the same people still stuck in the 80's....

[kraze]

What I wonder is - why can't an old synth sound "modern" and new synth sound "vintage"?

I didn't realize square and saw waves changed.

Also what is this so called "modern" sound?

You can do the same farty ducking Benassi bass with any synth that has 2 square oscillators without any tweaking.

[cuckoo.old]

Originally Posted by Liquid Legacy

Synths are the exact opposite of women; they only get more attractive with age. A 20 year old synth barely raises any eyebrows, a 30 year old synth can be pretty hot, but when it's nearing 40 it gets down right irresistible to many men.

No offence intended, but are you insane (that is about women, not synths)?

[nebelfrau]

Originally Posted by kraze

What I wonder is - why can't an old synth sound "modern" and new synth sound "vintage"?

I didn't realize square and saw waves changed.

Also what is this so called "modern" sound?

1) They most certainly can. Some do it better than others. For an in depth of which does which, you'll have to ask someone with more synth knowledge than I.

2) They didn't. But they way they get "rendered" has, on top of the output of synths has changed as well. It doesn't take a genius to hear the difference between two raw waveforms on two different synthesizers. An easy example, without using analogue buzzwords, would be an Oberheim OB anything will have a bassier output than, say, a Jupiter 6 which (to me) has more of a treble laden tone. Even when using the Low output..

3) Crystal clear productions, sample accurate timing (apparently..), microkorg. I actually don't have a good answer for this one.

[Digital-Haven]

Sometimes i wish we had "Greatest shits" section on the forum.

This would perfectly fit in:

Originally Posted by Hazmatic

A good number of people here feel that their vintage synths are very modern sounding...of course, they're the same people still stuck in the 80's....

[kraze]

Originally Posted by nebelfrau

They didn't. But they way they get "rendered" has, on top of the output of synths has changed as well. It doesn't take a genius to hear the difference between two raw waveforms on two different synthesizers. An easy example, without using analogue buzzwords, would be an Oberheim OB anything will have a bassier output than, say, a Jupiter 6 which (to me) has more of a treble laden tone. Even when using the Low output..

What I've meant is that analog (and FM for that matter) synthesis hasn't changed a bit in the past 30 years - and a lot of modern producers use analog/VA.

Of course if one only uses presets that come with a synth then that wrong impression of "it sounds too old" is understandable.

[peeej1978]

Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78

pfff I already cop out before the 80's, synths became lame then

There are also a number on people on here that think there's new music with their modern tools.. who yes sound a bit more 'modern' but there hasn't been any new music since the late 90's which was the last moment of abusing technology to create new sounds and form of composition not unlike the tape cutters of the 40's/50's/60's.
What happened then is people became users of technology which is streamlined to perform the tasks the creativity of the abusers created.

So today those things sound more 'modern' but there is nothing new under the sun.

Dubstep? Side-chaining multiband compressor on bass synth with bass drum? Deliberate use of autotune as an effect rather than a tool?

I may not like the styles or techniques but there is no denying that some producers are being just as creative with their tools as those in history. We always look at history through rose-tinted glasses but each generation pushes music forward in their own way. Creativity hasn't died out in the past 20 years at all, its just we don't see it as creative as past generations.

I do agree there is a huge propensity for modern music to simply repeat set formulas of old, but there is no denying that the past 20 years has given rise to some techniques and stylistic composition that has never been seen before.

Sent from my HTC Desire

[Praxisaxis]

Originally Posted by peeej1978

Dubstep? Side-chaining multiband compressor on bass synth with bass drum? Deliberate use of autotune as an effect rather than a tool?

I may not like the styles or techniques but there is no denying that some producers are being just as creative with their tools as those in history. We always look at history through rose-tinted glasses but each generation pushes music forward in their own way. Creativity hasn't died out in the past 20 years at all, its just we don't see it as creative as past generations.

I do agree there is a huge propensity for modern music to simply repeat set formulas of old, but there is no denying that the past 20 years has given rise to some techniques and stylistic composition that has never been seen before.

Sent from my HTC Desire

Presactly. Sure, you don't have to like all sorts of music. But to say nothing new has come about in the last ten years (and incidentally in the same breath complaining about a "modern sound" as if those two positions aren't mutually exclusive) is just kidding yourself. Not referring to anyone specifically in this thread, just a general observation.

But to the OP:

Most people on this forum use some combination of software and hardware to different extents. A) it's no secret. B) software gets plenty of discussion.

People also like to talk about hardware, because like it or not it has a sexiness which software doesn't - this comes from the ability to play it like an instrument, rather than operating with a generic interface (ie DAW). That's not to say that software doesn't have its own appeal, which it certainly does - just not the same.

People who are polarised about this topic really need to lighten up and go make some music in whichever way they prefer.

[Batchainpuller78]

Originally Posted by peeej1978

Dubstep? Side-chaining multiband compressor on bass synth with bass drum? Deliberate use of autotune as an effect rather than a tool?

I may not like the styles or techniques but there is no denying that some producers are being just as creative with their tools as those in history. We always look at history through rose-tinted glasses but each generation pushes music forward in their own way. Creativity hasn't died out in the past 20 years at all, its just we don't see it as creative as past generations.

I do agree there is a huge propensity for modern music to simply repeat set formulas of old, but there is no denying that the past 20 years has given rise to some techniques and stylistic composition that has never been seen before.

Sent from my HTC Desire

well yeah a bit more sound design... but that's all, Dubstep is not that different from some electronic music over more than a decade ago, Autotune = non robot sounding vocoder (although it still sounds robot to me)

and what I meant with "What happened then is people became users of technology which is streamlined to perform the tasks the creativity of the abusers created."
is well today we have tech that integrates certain tricks and production techniques into the machine or software.. but it's nothing new really, it's just that cutting up samples and modulating sounds has become a bit easier. But it hasn't really given birth to new music more than has happened during the first wave of computer use & abuse in music.

Sure in electronic dance music they like to name things new genres but it's essentially all just variations on the same theme.

[Praxisaxis]

today we have tech that integrates certain tricks and production techniques into the machine or software.. but it's nothing new really, it's just that cutting up samples and modulating sounds has become a bit easier. But it hasn't really given birth to new music more than has happened during the first wave of computer use & abuse in music.

New sounds have come about in the last decade in part because of techniques DAWs and related software enable - this is practically undeniable. Sure you don't have to like that sound, but to say it's not there is make believe.

Predating digital production, it wasn't all that long ago that people in the electroacoustic scene were criticising pop music people for relying on commercially made synthesizers saying it stifles creativity, and that they should really be building their own synths from scratch rather than buying Moogs or Korgs, if they wanted to be truly inventive, yada yada yada. (I can find the reference for this in an old text I read somewhere if you want).

People who are more fixated with the process and less with the outcome put forth a variety of this criticism from time to time, but I believe it is shortsighted.

[peeej1978]

Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78

well yeah a bit more sound design... but that's all, Dubstep is not that different from some electronic music over more than a decade ago, Autotune = non robot sounding vocoder (although it still sounds robot to me)

and what I meant with "What happened then is people became users of technology which is streamlined to perform the tasks the creativity of the abusers created."
is well today we have tech that integrates certain tricks and production techniques into the machine or software.. but it's nothing new really, it's just that cutting up samples and modulating sounds has become a bit easier. But it hasn't really given birth to new music more than has happened during the first wave of computer use & abuse in music.

Sure in electronic dance music they like to name things new genres but it's essentially all just variations on the same theme.

Surely we could say that in reality nothing has changed since Baroque music in this case. We have notes that correspond to different frequencies in the audio spectrum and we play those notes in ever similar orders to create music in exactly the same way as the classical greats?

For me its all a matter or perspective. The first person to cut tape, or multitrack parts, or move from vinyl to tape is no different to those that are pursuing alternative and creative means in our times. We just don't yet see the full impact it will or will not have on music as a whole. In 50 years time, my speedy little laptop will be seen as vintage, my Kawai stage piano will be highly sought after for its crappy sounds but near perfect grand piano feel.

Music and technology moves forward. Stick with it and enjoy the ride!


edit - I do have some sympathy for your view point. It is difficult to find TRUELY unique examples of creativity in this day and age. But that will have been the same throughout history. That has very little to do with the available or emerging technology and has everything to do with the individuals 'creating'. The first composers to use harmony instead of counterpoint had exactly the same 'technology' at their disposal but just used it in a completely different way. This was one of the most revolutionary progressions in music EVER!

[Batchainpuller78]

Originally Posted by Praxisaxis

New sounds have come about in the last decade in part because of techniques DAWs and related software enable - this is practically undeniable. Sure you don't have to like that sound, but to say it's not there is make believe.

Predating digital production, it wasn't all that long ago that people in the electroacoustic scene were criticising pop music people for relying on commercially made synthesizers saying it stifles creativity, and that they should really be building their own synths from scratch rather than buying Moogs or Korgs, if they wanted to be truly inventive, yada yada yada. (I can find the reference for this in an old text I read somewhere if you want).

People who are more fixated with the process and less with the outcome put forth a variety of this criticism from time to time, but I believe it is shortsighted.

Yes a few new sounds are there not too many though, I'm not denying that, I'm actually saying it but new music not really..
I was actually surprised that these days kids listen to 'new' music which in my ears isn't that different from acid or drum & bass of many years ago.
It just sounds a bit different.

There were at the time 'new sounds' in Aphex Twin stuff which I then rediscovered in Stockhausen 50 years earlier.

[BTByrd]

Digital:

[Praxisaxis]

Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78

Yes a few new sounds are there not too many though, I'm not denying that, I'm actually saying it but new music not really..
I was actually surprised that these days kids listen to 'new' music which in my ears isn't that different from acid or drum & bass of many years ago.
It just sounds a bit different.

There were at the time 'new sounds' in Aphex Twin stuff which I then rediscovered in Stockhausen 50 years earlier.

Sure. To get a bit deep and meaningful here, I think good music transcends our perceived scale of repetition-novelty. Come to it, to think about music which is embedded in the old yet introduces something new is to think of the entire history of western music. For 100 years after Beethoven (a legendary innovator), composers struggled to fit the venerable classical mould, while competing with each other to do something new and so distinguish themselves. But the ones whose music is most often still played (ie many generations since) are those who neither entirely abandoned their past nor refused to explore their own sounds.

[Liquid Legacy]

Originally Posted by cuckoo.old

No offence intended, but are you insane (that is about women, not synths)?

None taken! Although it was written satirically, I do find women below their 40s more attractive and I do prefer my synthesizers old.

Should I call the loony bin?