prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3
Xero
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#91
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
  #91
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Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Just wanted to say that Perfect Circuit Audio covered the cost of the repair to my Prophet 5 in full and were very easy and friendly to deal with. I would definately consider purchasing from them again based on that experience..
nice. I've bought from him once before and it was pretty smooth.

do you have your prophet back? is it all fixed now?

Still scheduled to take mine in for service on Saturday!
#92
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
  #92
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Its still at the shop, but should be finished next week, so hopefully ill have it back for next weekend.
Im a space short though keyboard stands are filled, while the P5 went away the VP330 jumped on the frame, so i need to find some space somehow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
nice. I've bought from him once before and it was pretty smooth.

do you have your prophet back? is it all fixed now?

Still scheduled to take mine in for service on Saturday!
Xero
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#93
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
  #93
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Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Its still at the shop, but should be finished next week, so hopefully ill have it back for next weekend.
Im a space short though keyboard stands are filled, while the P5 went away the VP330 jumped on the frame, so i need to find some space somehow!
I know how that is. I'm getting my arp odyssey back (yay!) when I drop off my prophet, and I'll probably be putting that where the prophet was, thus leaving no free space for when it comes back! I still have the rev3.3 prophet too, so eventually when that gets sold, i'll have some more space, but I don't plan on selling it until after the rev2 is back and I can do my fancy comparisons.
#94
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Just wanted to say that Perfect Circuit Audio covered the cost of the repair to my Prophet 5 in full and were very easy and friendly to deal with. I would definately consider purchasing from them again based on that experience..
Thats very good to know mate, you must be well happy with that.
they regularly have some great stuff come up on there page as well.
i was going to try and knab that OBX they had up last week if the Prophet fell through.
#95
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
I know how that is. I'm getting my arp odyssey back (yay!) when I drop off my prophet, and I'll probably be putting that where the prophet was, thus leaving no free space for when it comes back! I still have the rev3.3 prophet too, so eventually when that gets sold, i'll have some more space, but I don't plan on selling it until after the rev2 is back and I can do my fancy comparisons.
Yep pain in the ass isnt it

Quote:
Originally Posted by skanker View Post
Thats very good to know mate, you must be well happy with that.
they regularly have some great stuff come up on there page as well.
i was going to try and knab that OBX they had up last week if the Prophet fell through.
I didnt see the OBX but they have a nice 4 voice up at the moment
Xero
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#96
27th May 2012
Old 27th May 2012
  #96
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ah would love an obx or FVS myself! but i'm really lusting a cs-80 at the moment, this stuff never ends!

The prophet 5 rev2 is now finally at my tech! And, my MK I arp odyssey has returned!

Of course, we put the prophet on his bench so I could show him what's wrong and it freaks out and locks up on us! Never saw it do that...welp, glad it's at my tech! It behaved much better after it warmed up a bit. I think it needs some connectors cleaned. At this point, I am pretty sure I want him to do the full power supply upgrade with a new transformer...just to make sure that it's always getting clean power.
#97
27th May 2012
Old 27th May 2012
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
ah would love an obx or FVS myself! but i'm really lusting a cs-80 at the moment, this stuff never ends!

The prophet 5 rev2 is now finally at my tech! And, my MK I arp odyssey has returned!

Of course, we put the prophet on his bench so I could show him what's wrong and it freaks out and locks up on us! Never saw it do that...welp, glad it's at my tech! It behaved much better after it warmed up a bit. I think it needs some connectors cleaned. At this point, I am pretty sure I want him to do the full power supply upgrade with a new transformer...just to make sure that it's always getting clean power.
I would like to know how this tech (presumably in Philadelphia) works out with regard to the Prophet 5 Rev 2. I'm a recent transplant to Washington DC and have four of the early Prophet 5s.
Xero
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#98
27th May 2012
Old 27th May 2012
  #98
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Originally Posted by Rangoon View Post
I would like to know how this tech (presumably in Philadelphia) works out with regard to the Prophet 5 Rev 2. I'm a recent transplant to Washington DC and have four of the early Prophet 5s.
I had a really hard time finding a tech in pennsylvania. He's not always the quickest in the world (but he's up-front about that) and he seemed to do a good job on the arp. He's always got tons of stuff there and seems like he's always got a queue of work ahead of him, this time he had a jp6, minimoog D, some effects units, various other stuff like rhodes/hammonds/leslies/etc. I think he even does home-visits on some of those big old monster organs. He's planning on doing a promotional video featuring my upgraded P5, which I'll gladly post here along with his site once the work is completed as expected. He's even going to have the wood touched up on mine by a woodworker, so I'm really excited to see it when it's done, it should really look great.

He's an actual EE and seems to really understand this stuff rather than some of the techs who just say they work on this stuff and don't really know what they're doing. We'll see how he does!

If you're in DC, you're got all the new york options available to you as well, although my tech would be probably half as far, give or take. He's north-west of philly, in the philly suburbs.
#99
11th June 2012
Old 11th June 2012
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
BTW, I remember noticing the rear grill on your p5 looking a bit different in the pictures from most of the ones I've seen, what's it look like back there now that you've seen it in person? On the picture of yours, it looks like as if it's cut out, and then a metal grill installed there. Mine, it's just one piece of metal all the way through with square holes cut into it and oddly a section of the holes are slightly bigger than the rest, like, slightly taller, more rectangular, hard to explain. I've noticed rev1's often have no holes on the back at all, and I've noticed a few variations (early rev3s are similar to rev2 holes, but later rev3's had slots instead of holes) but yours is one i've not seen!
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this mate...
the grill appears to be a factory job as all the paintwork matches where it would'nt otherwise.

can someone tell me what the switch between the footswitch and the trigger out is for please?

the guy i bought it from says its to change the voltage but i cant see that being true
#100
11th June 2012
Old 11th June 2012
  #100
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Pics...
Attached Thumbnails
prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-dscf1217.jpg   prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-dscf1218.jpg  
Xero
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#101
11th June 2012
Old 11th June 2012
  #101
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the switch for power is typically way over on the other side of the case, near the fuse box and the power cord. def not supposed to be that switch! And yeah, the grill on the back of yours is unlike any i've seen! interesting.

perhaps the switch reverses the polarity of the foot switch?
#102
11th June 2012
Old 11th June 2012
  #102
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im not sure what its for and im a little apprehensive about changing the setting incase the guy was right regarding the voltage tho as i've said i dont think he is.

if unsure "do not touch" is the way forward!
#103
21st June 2012
Old 21st June 2012
  #103
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Harlem's Avatar
 

Took the plunge at a rare opportunity - now got a rev2 also, and it's just unreal... Beautiful condition, no midi or cass interface. It had extensive service before, including PSU, now it's not getting very hot, staying well tuned etc, all perfect. I checked and double checked before buying, first making sure it not being a scam, at the end even contacting Greg Montalbano for some more tech advise although I'd never ship it to US, he was really nice.

Sound has an amazing vibe, actually close to my Polysix, for that filter, but more powerful and raw. It feels alive, not all notes have the exact same envelopes or loudness, filter settings, very subtle change even if you retrigger the same note or sustain a chord... Don't know, just right. Absolutely no comparison with the Pro12 that I tested earlier against my Pro One on YT..

:-)
Xero
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#104
22nd June 2012
Old 22nd June 2012
  #104
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nice! more rev2ness. I do start to think it's the imperfections which give it half it's magic, but the SSM filter does sound pretty amazing regardless of that.

my rev2 is still in the shop getting the upgrades done. I've been following progress on that rev2 firmware update still - there's definitely a possibility for an upgraded cpu, so i'm waiting to hear what comes of it all. I can't wait til I get my rev2 back either way!

wow Harlem, just noticed your video on youtube! I'm posting it here since it's totally relevant to the cowley stuff we were talking about before:



My p5 is still in the shop, but my tech has told me he expects to have it done within the next week or two...Seeing these videos is just making me even more excited! I ended up having him do the transformer upgrade so that the 5v regulators shouldn't get very hot at all now, though it meant more time waiting in the shop. I'm really curious to see how much cooler it runs when all is said and done.
#105
11th August 2012
Old 11th August 2012
  #105
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Nice sounds Harlem! And congrats on that rev2.

On this topic, could someone explain (in layman's terms!) why it's not possible to pop open a rev3 and replace the CEM3320 VCF chips with SSM2040 VCF chips? Something to do with all the surrounding bits?
Xero
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#106
1st September 2012
Old 1st September 2012
  #106
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Originally Posted by CfNorENa View Post
Nice sounds Harlem! And congrats on that rev2.

On this topic, could someone explain (in layman's terms!) why it's not possible to pop open a rev3 and replace the CEM3320 VCF chips with SSM2040 VCF chips? Something to do with all the surrounding bits?
too much surrounding circuitry differences. you pretty much got it. I'm sure you could probably rig up some sort of daughter board to make it work, but it would be kind of insane. Plus, factor in the the cost of all those SSM ICs and you might as well just go buy a P5 rev2!

Now, for my update: Cassette mod and power supply upgrades are now done. Got a new transformer with extra tap for 5v, LM337 mod ala P5rev3.1 PSU and regulators mounted on angle iron so the PSU can be worked on without removing the back logo anymore! Apparently my tech's eprom burner died so that's the only hold up. New one is on the way and if all goes well with that I am supposed to have my P5 back next week. I'm psyched.

My initial test will likely be running identical midi files through both the rev2 and rev3...I'll probably take some requests, if you've got a midi file and you want to hear it through both a rev2 and a rev3...etc...I will use the cassette interface and that converter program to load/save identical patches on both units, and of course if needed I can tweak them.
Xero
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#107
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #107
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YES! It's back. It's here. It's plugged in. It's got midi and cassette interface installed. It's already got the factory presets loaded back in. The power supply doesn't even get hot at all now. Yes, it took forever, and my guy isn't always the fastest, but the majority of the wait was because we waited 2 months for a back-ordered transformer, only to then run into random crashing and what not due to bad solder joints all over the place, which then required reflowing large parts of the CPU board. Was it worth the wait? YES! It's barely even warm now. My rev3.3 gets much much hotter. And the transformer is a drop-in replacement for the factory one. All Engineering service changes were applied and my gigantic TODO list was gone over thoroughly and completed, you can see it here if you're curious: http://www.xero.cc/p5cass/todo.txt

All thanks to Tim over at retrolinear.com. The power supply is completely new now, every single part replaced, and new parts added bringing it to rev3.3 spec, as well as new parts for the additional 5v tap from the transformer. It's quite impressive, I really need to take a photo next time I have it open.

here's a before and after photo of it, with all the correct knobs on volume tune and fine control, and a brand new pitch wheel/mod panel which I found a spare for, these changes properly fixed a previous ghetto repair. In fact, all the previous bad repairs are now fixed.

before:

after:


Okay, so first off the presses: They were played midi triggered exactly the same time, in fact i can & will make a copy that has both of them on top of eachother (super fat BTW!)

as for which is which? I'll let you guys guess for now! I manually adjusted the volume and filter of both in order to get them as close as possible during the performance, but it's not perfect. I did the best I could, and I don't think I've ever seen another comparison even remotely as close as this one ever posted:

https://soundcloud.com/portable-beat-box/p5turkish9

https://soundcloud.com/portable-beat-box/p5turkish19
#108
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #108
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First off, congratulations!

Second, that P-5 together with a JP-8 is a sight to behold! One of the most perfect combos I can imagine.

And last, but not least, the first example (p5turkish9) is the Rev2.
Quote
1
#109
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #109
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golden beers's Avatar
Jeezus Christ Xero... Cleanup yo sheet bro!

Congrats on the servicing. Dry joints are the reason, I think, that the pro2 gets a bad rep.

Of the 2 examples, The first one sounds less ugly. edit just to say i only listened on ipad speakers
#110
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #110
#111
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Prophet Rev3
Prophet Rev2

Although Soundcloud killed the living shit out of both tracks. It's very difficult to tell!
Well, if you're right, and the first example really is the Rev 3.3, then I will be thrilled because I genuinely thought the first recording sounded better.

So, here's to hoping I'm wrong!
#112
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #112
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Congrats!
Mine is still being serviced
How much did all the work cost ya?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
YES! It's back. It's here. It's plugged in. It's got midi and cassette interface installed. It's already got the factory presets loaded back in. The power supply doesn't even get hot at all now. Yes, it took forever, and my guy isn't always the fastest, but the majority of the wait was because we waited 2 months for a back-ordered transformer, only to then run into random crashing and what not due to bad solder joints all over the place, which then required reflowing large parts of the CPU board. Was it worth the wait? YES! It's barely even warm now. My rev3.3 gets much much hotter. And the transformer is a drop-in replacement for the factory one. All Engineering service changes were applied and my gigantic TODO list was gone over thoroughly and completed, you can see it here if you're curious: http://www.xero.cc/p5cass/todo.txt

All thanks to Tim over at retrolinear.com. The power supply is completely new now, every single part replaced, and new parts added bringing it to rev3.3 spec, as well as new parts for the additional 5v tap from the transformer. It's quite impressive, I really need to take a photo next time I have it open.

here's a before and after photo of it, with all the correct knobs on volume tune and fine control, and a brand new pitch wheel/mod panel which I found a spare for, these changes properly fixed a previous ghetto repair. In fact, all the previous bad repairs are now fixed.

before:

after:


Okay, so first off the presses: They were played midi triggered exactly the same time, in fact i can & will make a copy that has both of them on top of eachother (super fat BTW!)

as for which is which? I'll let you guys guess for now! I manually adjusted the volume and filter of both in order to get them as close as possible during the performance, but it's not perfect. I did the best I could, and I don't think I've ever seen another comparison even remotely as close as this one ever posted:

https://soundcloud.com/portable-beat-box/p5turkish9

https://soundcloud.com/portable-beat-box/p5turkish19
#113
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #113
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golden beers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Prophet Rev3


Prophet Rev2


i think i'll go with the opposite to what don says here...


xero: at ~1.39 version 1 breaks up quite badly. sound like a dusty pot or something. why do you think that is?
Xero
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#114
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #114
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It wasn't the cheapest service in the world, but I also had my mks-30 repaired at the same time, it came out around $800ish total for all the prophet upgrades and the mks-30 repair. I got various discounts for my patience and what not, but given that he went over my giant TODO list meticulously and knocked off every single item, I'm pretty happy with the result.


BTW, I uploaded the raw wave files to soundcloud, so you guys CAN download the original wave files recorded at 24/96khz off my audiofire 12 (direct input, no processing) if you want to compare that way. I'll try to wait for a few more answers to come in before I reveal the results!
Xero
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#115
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
xero: at ~1.39 version 1 breaks up quite badly. sound like a dusty pot or something. why do you think that is?
1:39, I believe it was clipping my audio interface . It was hard keeping volume levels consistent while changing through patches, certain patches were louder on one revision than the other, and then the opposite in other ways (filter more closed on one than the other, minor tweaks to open it more, etc. )



BTW, I'll give you guys a hint: The brass patch at 0:21ish should be a dead give-away! Compare to my first rev2 vs rev3 brass patch demo from earlier in the thread, you'll see!

As a side note, the difference is surprising hard to tell when played via midi identically like this! It's a lot easier to tell when you can press keys manually and listen to how the filter responds to the envelope and such...
#116
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
1:39, I believe it was clipping my audio interface . It was hard keeping volume levels consistent while changing through patches, certain patches were louder on one revision than the other, and then the opposite in other ways (filter more closed on one than the other, minor tweaks to open it more, etc. )



BTW, I'll give you guys a hint: The brass patch at 0:21ish should be a dead give-away! Compare to my first rev2 vs rev3 brass patch demo from earlier in the thread, you'll see!

As a side note, the difference is surprising hard to tell when played via midi identically like this! It's a lot easier to tell when you can press keys manually and listen to how the filter responds to the envelope and such...
ahh yea, ive done that.. gone in too hot. if youre at 24bit like the rest of the world you should be able to record everything low.. a quarter up the meter tops is fine...

re-difference is hard to tell.. i found the examples very easy to tell apart.. in that they sound different. which ones the rev3 and the rev2.?. not so easy... pretty sure the rev2's the first.
#117
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #117
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
i think i'll go with the opposite to what don says here...
LOL! I actually voted first synth to be Rev3 because i found second synth to sound way way better.

In some cases eats first synth for breakfast.
Xero
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#118
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #118
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Should I just reveal the results? This is killing me over here! Ha!
#119
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #119
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I'll go with:
Rev 3
Rev 2
Xero
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#120
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #120
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As a teaser, here's a photo of my prophet 5 rev3.3 used in these clips!



I'm thinking I'll post the results tonight to leave some time for more guesses! I'll post the layered clip too in a few moments when I get a chance. It sounds super-fat having them both layered!
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