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prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3
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#61
20th May 2012
Old 20th May 2012
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Great info Xero! Thanks for sharing it. Incredibly good timing for me, because my tech has my rev 2 at the moment due to a tuning problem, and we decided to also do the 2708-2716 upgrade while he has the synth. The only issue we were stuck on was how to read the binaries off the old 2708s.

I've emailed Riku for a copy of the updated firmware.

And since rev 2 prices have been discussed, I can reveal that I got mine 2 years ago from the UK for £2500. Fully serviced with 120 patch upgrade, cassette interface and Kenton MIDI. It's a beauty, apart from its current honky tonk tendencies...

Frank
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#62
20th May 2012
Old 20th May 2012
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Congrats!

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Originally Posted by skanker View Post
im happy to say it was me who won the auction tho we'll see what its like when i get down to pick it up.
Spoke with the guy and he appears kosher so all good on that front.
its just had a full service that cost him £400 as well so im looking forward to getting my hands on it!

Any pointers with what i should look out for on it?
i've not owned one before so any info would be appreciated please
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#63
20th May 2012
Old 20th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Funk View Post
Great info Xero! Thanks for sharing it. Incredibly good timing for me, because my tech has my rev 2 at the moment due to a tuning problem, and we decided to also do the 2708-2716 upgrade while he has the synth. The only issue we were stuck on was how to read the binaries off the old 2708s.

I've emailed Riku for a copy of the updated firmware.

And since rev 2 prices have been discussed, I can reveal that I got mine 2 years ago from the UK for £2500. Fully serviced with 120 patch upgrade, cassette interface and Kenton MIDI. It's a beauty, apart from its current honky tonk tendencies...

Frank
I have a few diff versions of the firmware that he gave me, but I'm sure Riku will give you the latest copy. I need to get his last update still, but he sent me the one with many bug fixes. I had asked for him to scan that updated manual and he seems to have done it but I haven't heard back from my last email. I may email him again to give him an update on my situation and see where he's at with things. Make sure you do the 2708->2716 mod the way he describes (running the extra line to the cpu) as otherwise you won't get some of the new features.

I've been curious about the 120 patch mod myself, more than likely these types of mods on a rev2 are fairly hackish. I was talking to him about the idea of adding more memory to the p5 via firmware updates + mods, which may be required for some of the features he wants to add anyway, but is similar to the new "factory preset" bank feature he added already, which, IMO, is nice and may satisfy my need for extra memory anyway. always having the factory presets on the ROMs is convenient, and you can then use the writable ram for only your custom presets instead.
#64
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
Make sure you do the 2708->2716 mod the way he describes (running the extra line to the cpu) as otherwise you won't get some of the new features.
Good point, and easy to overlook - thanks for that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
I've been curious about the 120 patch mod myself, more than likely these types of mods on a rev2 are fairly hackish. I was talking to him about the idea of adding more memory to the p5 via firmware updates + mods, which may be required for some of the features he wants to add anyway, but is similar to the new "factory preset" bank feature he added already, which, IMO, is nice and may satisfy my need for extra memory anyway. always having the factory presets on the ROMs is convenient, and you can then use the writable ram for only your custom presets instead.
I actually spoke to my tech earlier today about possibly removing the 120 patch mod if Riku's firmware doesn't work well with it. I would also be quite happy with 40 factory ROM + 40 user RAM patches.

Frank
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#65
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Funk View Post
Good point, and easy to overlook - thanks for that!



I actually spoke to my tech earlier today about possibly removing the 120 patch mod if Riku's firmware doesn't work well with it. I would also be quite happy with 40 factory ROM + 40 user RAM patches.

Frank
If the speculations I have about how those "120 upgrades" work are correct, then it likely should work with his new firmware fine. They are more than likely fairly dumb upgrades: IE: you're just wiring in more ram and installing a switch to flip between the banks without the firmware ever knowing...Riku was speculating that at best it might have some circuitry to share the part of the memory used by the tuning routine, but that's only if it was done nicely, more than likely I bet this was just implemented by adding new ram and a switch and that's it, then the tuning data would just get written to all 3 banks over time...with the potential of your synth to need the "autotune" button pressed again after flipping a bank, due to stale tuning data in that bank...

but essentially, to keep adding new features to the p5, eventually more memory might need to be added anyway, and that'd be the time to add some new banks as a side effect. I still don't know if it will happen, or how far the project will go. Extensive mods on a rev2 is obviously a risk, so the simpler the better.
#66
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
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Picked the board up today for anyones who's interested and all's very well indeed!

its running perfectly and has just has a full service with the following work carried out...

Full keyboard rebush and cleaning of contacts.
Rectification of problem whereby all B Oscillators were out of tune.
Rectification of problem whereby edit functions were working incorrectly and program recall was incorrect
Replcement of tantalum capacitors in power supply
Replacement of some osc scaling and init freq trimmers
Calibration
Replacement of backup battery.

All in all im over the moon with it, the only down side is im away for nearly two weeks from tomorrow so cant use it, sods law!
#67
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skanker View Post

All in all im over the moon with it, the only down side is im away for nearly two weeks from tomorrow
oh yea?

what's your home address there good buddy?
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#68
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skanker View Post
Picked the board up today for anyones who's interested and all's very well indeed!

its running perfectly and has just has a full service with the following work carried out...
nice dude! and you're ready to go with midi and such! I'm still waiting for my tech to call me back to schedule a time to bring mine in for the upgrade. At least now I've got all the parts to fully restore my p5 in hand.

BTW, I remember noticing the rear grill on your p5 looking a bit different in the pictures from most of the ones I've seen, what's it look like back there now that you've seen it in person? On the picture of yours, it looks like as if it's cut out, and then a metal grill installed there. Mine, it's just one piece of metal all the way through with square holes cut into it and oddly a section of the holes are slightly bigger than the rest, like, slightly taller, more rectangular, hard to explain. I've noticed rev1's often have no holes on the back at all, and I've noticed a few variations (early rev3s are similar to rev2 holes, but later rev3's had slots instead of holes) but yours is one i've not seen!
#69
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skanker View Post
Picked the board up today for anyones who's interested and all's very well indeed!

its running perfectly and has just has a full service with the following work carried out...
Congrats! Hope you get a nice long run with it before something packs in... I got a year out of mine before the tuning started going wrong!

Frank
#70
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
BTW, I remember noticing the rear grill on your p5 looking a bit different in the pictures from most of the ones I've seen, what's it look like back there now that you've seen it in person? On the picture of yours, it looks like as if it's cut out, and then a metal grill installed there. Mine, it's just one piece of metal all the way through with square holes cut into it and oddly a section of the holes are slightly bigger than the rest, like, slightly taller, more rectangular, hard to explain. I've noticed rev1's often have no holes on the back at all, and I've noticed a few variations (early rev3s are similar to rev2 holes, but later rev3's had slots instead of holes) but yours is one i've not seen!
i have to be honest and say i did'nt take much notice of that, i'll take a full length image of it for you when im back from my trip and stick it on here.
i naively presumed the rear would be the same on them all.

There is a red push button on the rear which i presume is related to the Kenton Midi mod?
i only think that as its the same type of button i've seen on the 808 midi kit they do. would appreciate confirmation on this tho.

Also, theres a metal switch which the guy who i bought it from says its to alternate the voltage from US to UK but i cant see it being for that as it would be far to easy to knock it when in use causing untold damge no doubt. am i mistaken on this?
it looks just like the one for the record enable function at the rear of the unit but has no type near it to clarify its use....
#71
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skanker View Post
i have to be honest and say i did'nt take much notice of that, i'll take a full length image of it for you when im back from my trip and stick it on here.
i naively presumed the rear would be the same on them all.

There is a red push button on the rear which i presume is related to the Kenton Midi mod?
i only think that as its the same type of button i've seen on the 808 midi kit they do. would appreciate confirmation on this tho.

Also, theres a metal switch which the guy who i bought it from says its to alternate the voltage from US to UK but i cant see it being for that as it would be far to easy to knock it when in use causing untold damge no doubt. am i mistaken on this?
it looks just like the one for the record enable function at the rear of the unit but has no type near it to clarify its use....
yes the red button is kenton midi function..

get the manual from here.. scroll down to SCI.

Kenton Retrofit Manuals

ALSO when i saw the pic on ebay i assumed that switch was for the cassette. i have a key switch in that place for my cassette interface the two selections are: TO and FROM cassette
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#72
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
oh yea?

what's your home address there good buddy?
Ha, Such tactics from someone who already has one! you can have a butchers at these instead tho...

These are the images the seller sent over last week, i cant wait to get back home and fire it up.
Attached Thumbnails
prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-090.jpg   prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-091.jpg   prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-092.jpg   prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-093.jpg   prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-094.jpg  

prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-101.jpg   prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-096.jpg   prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-097.jpg   prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-098.jpg   prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3-099.jpg  

#73
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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edit: idiotic reply!
#74
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Hahaa GB wants to go slap his dick on your keys while your away!

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
oh yea?

what's your home address there good buddy?
#75
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Does the Kenton kit respond to mod wheel over midi?
That would be quite useful, mine has a JL Cooper and its just note on/off
Better than nothing but still
#76
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
yes the red button is kenton midi function..

get the manual from here.. scroll down to SCI.

Kenton Retrofit Manuals

ALSO when i saw the pic on ebay i assumed that switch was for the cassette. i have a key switch in that place for my cassette interface the two selections are: TO and FROM cassette
checked the manual section, thanks GB
#77
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Does the Kenton kit respond to mod wheel over midi?
That would be quite useful, mine has a JL Cooper and its just note on/off
Better than nothing but still
Just read the manual and it say's it does so im hoping mine is fully functioning.
i only tested for note on/off when i picked it up
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#78
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
yes the red button is kenton midi function..

get the manual from here.. scroll down to SCI.

Kenton Retrofit Manuals

ALSO when i saw the pic on ebay i assumed that switch was for the cassette. i have a key switch in that place for my cassette interface the two selections are: TO and FROM cassette
http://analog.fi/pdf/P5r2_sec_C.pdf

according to the engineering change ECR-10 they started using the inset record enable/disable switch instead of the big toggle as they were breaking off too often. maybe someone replaced yours with a keyswitch instead or etc...

but yes i also assumed that switch was the record enable/disable switch, which is not only for the cassette interface, but also for memory protect...

btw, in other news, scheduled to bring my P5 in for service on saturday! I should be getting my arp odyssey back at the same time! Yay, my arpy! At least that'll give me something to do in the mean time!
#79
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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im interested to know how good a deal i've got on this board.

i've been after one for a while (even tho moneys been tight) and i've been keeping tabs online and i've only ever seen rev 3's turn up by and large so i know the value of that model but im unsure what the currecnt market value is for the rev 2?

the guy i bought it from has just had it serviced at cyberwave ems and was told he could expect up to £4k for it but surely not?

i took a punt at the price i paid and had to beg steal and borrow to grab it so im happy either way but it would be nice to know
#80
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Hi, congrats on the Rev 2!

I've not seen many rev2s sell recently in the uk so hard to talk about a going rate, but I think you got a good deal. Your seller had zero feedback (like we all did when we started!) which may have deterred some buyers. I've been told they are worth up to £4k in good condition too.

Interesting talk about the grid on the back, I hadn't been aware they vary either. The rev 2 I used had square holes, a keylock for memory protect and 'FROM TAPE' and 'TO TAPE' above the preset buttons on the front panel.

Is the front panel set down slightly into the case towards the rear on yours, or am I looking at the photos wrong?

Also, it looks like your Prophet was serviced by James Walker at Synth Repair Services, who would likely be able to tell you more about the history.

I have to admit I was always more a fan of Jupiters than Prophets, but having spent some time playing a rev 2 recently I'm seriously starting to warm to them and appreciate their organic quality. I'm sure you'll really enjoy it!
#81
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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im sure i will to mate, thanks

im just wanting an idea for insurance purposes as much as anthing else

Yes, it was serviced by James but not for a while, that sticker is from 2001 or near when he was at music control but i think i'll ask him anyway as coincidentally he looks after my kit.

as for the panel, it sits flush or as flush as i'd expect it to be.
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#82
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skanker View Post
im interested to know how good a deal i've got on this board.

i've been after one for a while (even tho moneys been tight) and i've been keeping tabs online and i've only ever seen rev 3's turn up by and large so i know the value of that model but im unsure what the currecnt market value is for the rev 2?

the guy i bought it from has just had it serviced at cyberwave ems and was told he could expect up to £4k for it but surely not?

i took a punt at the price i paid and had to beg steal and borrow to grab it so im happy either way but it would be nice to know
ok so

in 2010 when i bought my rev3 for like, $2600 I think? Maybe 2500, can't remember...you could get a rev2 for $3000-3500 easily. Over 2011, most of them sold for 3500-4000, and now they seem to sell for 4000-5000. Now even rev3's are going for $3000-3500.

Did you get a good deal? At the current prices, given that you've got a fully upgraded one with midi, yes. You essentially paid the bottom-tier price for a prophet that probably should have been top-tier priced. 2 years ago, it wouldn't have been such a good deal, but that's probably the case with any synth. I was reading AH mailing lists and it's crazy to see people talking about selling/buying prophets for like $800-1200 back in the 90s...


Quote:
Originally Posted by KevBKeys View Post
Interesting talk about the grid on the back, I hadn't been aware they vary either. The rev 2 I used had square holes, a keylock for memory protect and 'FROM TAPE' and 'TO TAPE' above the preset buttons on the front panel.
interesting, so i guess more than few people had a keylock installed. Originally, it was a big toggle switch, but because it stuck out so far, my guess is it only took one whack and the thing was busted, eventually it was replaced with an in-set memory switch like the rev3 had...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevBKeys View Post
I have to admit I was always more a fan of Jupiters than Prophets, but having spent some time playing a rev 2 recently I'm seriously starting to warm to them and appreciate their organic quality. I'm sure you'll really enjoy it!
Yeah, I'd always be using my jp8 over my p5r3.3, but the rev2 gets a lot more attention now. I do find that for some reason those SSM chips have more of a roland/IR3109 vibe than a CEM one, but that's totally subjective.
#83
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Hahaa GB wants to go slap his dick on your keys while your away!
nah.. i'll hide in the wardrobe till he gets back, because i like an audience for that party trick.
#84
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Does the Kenton kit respond to mod wheel over midi?
yes
#85
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Originally Posted by skanker View Post
im sure i will to mate, thanks

im just wanting an idea for insurance purposes as much as anthing else

Yes, it was serviced by James but not for a while, that sticker is from 2001 or near when he was at music control but i think i'll ask him anyway as coincidentally he looks after my kit.

as for the panel, it sits flush or as flush as i'd expect it to be.
For insurance, I'd put £4000 or so. The Rev 2 are rarer, so finding one again would be harder than a Rev 3
It's all good if they are in good nick.
James just serviced my Rev 3 btw. I've had a few P5 but this one is the polysynth for me.
Great synths. Congrats.
#86
23rd May 2012
Old 23rd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
interesting, so i guess more than few people had a keylock installed. Originally, it was a big toggle switch, but because it stuck out so far, my guess is it only took one whack and the thing was busted, eventually it was replaced with an in-set memory switch like the rev3 had...
Add mine to the 'keylock' list... Mine also has a big heatsink on the back, covering some of the logo. That will go when the EPROMs are changed to CMOS.

skanker, I don't see a heatsink on yours - maybe it's already been changed over to CMOS?

And I agree with others that you got a great deal. I thought I did 2 years ago for the same money...

Frank
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#87
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Funk View Post
Add mine to the 'keylock' list... Mine also has a big heatsink on the back, covering some of the logo. That will go when the EPROMs are changed to CMOS.

skanker, I don't see a heatsink on yours - maybe it's already been changed over to CMOS?

And I agree with others that you got a great deal. I thought I did 2 years ago for the same money...

Frank
it's not really changed to cmos, as much as it is changed to, other EPROMs, and/or EEPROMs. Technically, you're swapping 2708 eproms for 2716 eproms or 2816 eeproms However, my P5 hasn't had that done yet, and it has no such heatsink. That was definitely not factory!

FWIW, the power supply normally has 5 rectifiers, this can be reduced to 3 after the upgrade, and one of those 3 can be swapped for an LM337 with a few extra parts added, making the power supply almost identical to a rev3.1 or later. I wrote up this document with a combination of some information given to me by Riku, and just some stuff I gathered and edited myself.

http://xero.cc/p5cass/powersupply.txt

The biggest way to reduce heat is the transformer swap mentioned. Removing the 2 rectifiers and rebuilding/recapping the PSU will help, but not as much as that will. FWIW, I've also heard of attaching heatsinks on the inside of the P5 to the other side of the rectifiers, that'd probably be a bit cleaner than putting heatsinks on the back.
#88
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Funk View Post
skanker, I don't see a heatsink on yours - maybe it's already been changed over to CMOS?
Frank
your right mate there's not but im unsure if any work has been carried out in that respect, is there anyway i can find out without taking it to a tech?
#89
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
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Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
For insurance, I'd put £4000 or so. The Rev 2 are rarer, so finding one again would be harder than a Rev 3
It's all good if they are in good nick.
James just serviced my Rev 3 btw. I've had a few P5 but this one is the polysynth for me.
Great synths. Congrats.
Thanks for input David, James is great tho im hoping it'll be a while before he has to see this!
#90
24th May 2012
Old 24th May 2012
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Just wanted to say that Perfect Circuit Audio covered the cost of the repair to my Prophet 5 in full and were very easy and friendly to deal with. I would definately consider purchasing from them again based on that experience..
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