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prophet 5 revision 2 vs 3.3
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#31
29th April 2012
Old 29th April 2012
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEBEQ View Post
Obviously this is just a raw recording and it will take a bit of processing and effects to make it sound just like Cowley's. On my mix I had to add EQ compression Chorus, Delay and Reverb to coax it to sound as close as possible to Cowleys.
A couple things from your sound demo though, it seems that the filter envelope is set a bit different on the Rev 3, it just cuts off and does not have the smoother decay that is set on the REV2. When the rev3 comes in at 25sec it does sound just a bit brighter but it might be the ENV amount. All in all, I am not finding the two P5's to have as huge of a difference as I was expecting it to, and I think that most of the P5 sound you here in Cowleys was due to EQing, effects and processing.
Always love to see other Cowley fans.. FWIW, I tried getting as close as possible to that 'Cowley brass' using the Creamware Pro12 Prophet 5 rev 3 emulation, which is certainly not as fat, but has a polyphonic unison to make up for it - you can hear it at the end of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEuZqDY5pjE&t=4m15s
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#32
29th April 2012
Old 29th April 2012
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nice cover! minikorg! Sweet. those are cool.

as a general update, I now have the kenton midi kit for my rev2. I'm going to be sending it off to get upgraded shortly. Still trying to decide a few things, but I'm likely going to be rev2-less for a few weeks while it gets upgraded and then hopefully it'll be good as new and have midi and cassette interfaces! And I'll be able to easily transfer patches between my 2 revs using that converter program. And of course, repeatable sequences! and definitely expect some more cowley action.
#33
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Wow, thats super annoying a Rev 2 Prophet 5 just popped up on ebay UK, wish id seen that a month ago, save me shipping one from the US!

SEQUENTIAL CIRCUITS PROPHET 5 REV 2 | eBay

Still a heads up for UK Slutz that may be looking for one, it has Kenton midi installed too so pretty sweet. £2000 is a good price, will be interesting to see what sort of interest it gets. I guess local pickup only could put some people off.
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#34
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Wow, thats super annoying a Rev 2 Prophet 5 just popped up on ebay UK, wish id seen that a month ago, save me shipping one from the US!

SEQUENTIAL CIRCUITS PROPHET 5 REV 2 | eBay

Still a heads up for UK Slutz that may be looking for one, it has Kenton midi installed too so pretty sweet. £2000 is a good price, will be interesting to see what sort of interest it gets. I guess local pickup only could put some people off.
haha right? there was a new one up in the USA too for $4800 BIN/$4000 auction. Ah well, there's always gonna be another one for sale out there.

as an update to my situation: still have yet to get the kenton midi installed in mine, but spoke with my tech earlier this week and we're going to schedule a date to bring it in shortly. I was originally thinking of shipping it to california to have Greg M do the work, but my local tech has been really interested in working on it and we've now got all the necessary information to install the cassette upgrade, the 2708 -> 2716 eprom swap, a few different power supply upgrade options, and the hardest piece to find: both cassette-supporting revisions of the rev2 firmware! 6.1c and 7.0c! I also managed to get the 2 knobs and pots which are incorrect on my p5, so it will be correct soon enough! I am also starting a collection of spare SSMs, just for the heck of it, and i'll have at least one spare of each, if not two...I also just found a large rev2 badge for the back! wooooh...since i'm planning to do some power supply work, that will be nice, my badge is already bent from past work on the PSU, so this is gonna mint it up...I am hoping to keep my rev2 running for a long long time!

I will follow up once all the work is done. I'd be happy to provide information for those who need it about the cassette interface or otherwise. It's been an interesting experience gathering all this information and going back and forth between various techs, but progress is being made!
#35
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Xero, thank you for all your efforts on the rev 2 / rev 3 comparison

It would be great to have the same patch playing on both 2 and 3 back to back - so I can't wait til you get the cassette interface, thanks!

I also have decided that I will sell the rev 3 and get the 2 at some point.
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#36
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Originally Posted by Mr. Varaldo View Post
It would be great to have the same patch playing on both 2 and 3 back to back - so I can't wait til you get the cassette interface, thanks!
That is my plan, of course! And since I'm getting kenton midi installed as well, I'll be able to play the exact same sequence through both synths! Finding all the information for installing the cassette interface wasn't easy, but persistence paid off and I may even be getting complete scans of the factory PCB soon, so that I could even make the exact PCB used by sequential (though that's not as important as getting the circuit right, fortunately it's a fairly simple circuit)

All this has of course, not been cheap, I've already spent another $1000 between the spare SSMs collection I've started, replacement parts, kenton midi, and whatever my tech charges me for all the work, but I think it's worth it. I can't say how long I'll keep the rev3 after I get my rev2 fully upgraded, but I plan on keeping it for at least a few months so that I can do extensive comparisons and put a rest to the whole "rev2 vs rev3" thing. I want there to be no doubts anymore as to the differences.

At the moment it's not really practical for me to keep them both financially, as much as I'd love to. I might consider replacing the prophet 5rev3 with a pro-one. I always found my mks-80rev4 and p5rev3.3 could sound similar as well, and I generally prefer the roland filters over the CEM filters...so I am not sure I'd really miss the rev3 much.
#37
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Wow, thats super annoying a Rev 2 Prophet 5 just popped up on ebay UK, wish id seen that a month ago, save me shipping one from the US!

SEQUENTIAL CIRCUITS PROPHET 5 REV 2 | eBay

Still a heads up for UK Slutz that may be looking for one, it has Kenton midi installed too so pretty sweet. £2000 is a good price, will be interesting to see what sort of interest it gets. I guess local pickup only could put some people off.
it's got the cassette mod too.
#38
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem View Post
Always love to see other Cowley fans.. FWIW, I tried getting as close as possible to that 'Cowley brass' using the Creamware Pro12 Prophet 5 rev 3 emulation
Creamware has modelled PRO12 after the rev1/2, i.e. the SSM version, not the rev3. Native Instruments PRO53 is modelled after rev3, i.e. the Curtis chip version. i wont get into how sucessful that was, just what their goal was.



damn that's a really nice deal for that rev2 in UK, even tho the guy has 0 feedback,,, he insists on local pickup... which may mean tis legit... then again, he might plan to mug you
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#39
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
Creamware has modelled PRO12 after the rev1/2, i.e. the SSM version, not the rev3. Native Instruments PRO53 is modelled after rev3, i.e. the Curtis chip version. i wont get into how sucessful that was, just what their goal was.



damn that's a really nice deal for that rev2 in UK, even tho the guy has 0 feedback,,, he insists on local pickup... which may mean tis legit... then again, he might plan to mug you
2K starting bid mate not BIN!
#40
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Yep. Bloody annoying huh! LOL
Mine was £3150, which i dont think is too terrible, its in great condition got £4000 for my Chroma Expander so it paid for the Prophet.
Have mine up with Adrian @ Synth Restore at the moment, fixing that LFO issue.

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it's got the cassette mod too.
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#41
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
it's got the cassette mod too.
not to fear, once I get mine installed, tested, and confirmed working, I plan on making available in public form all the information for installing the cassette interface mod.

but you're right, that P5 in the UK has everything. damn! Can't win 'em all. Then again, who said it won't sell for more? auction ain't over yet!
#42
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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im in the middle of complete restoration of mine..

all caps, all regular trimmer went multiturn, all connections resoldered, all logic n chips got a new DIL socket etc. PCBs and pots cleaned, pots lubed etc. even got most logic chips new, ready to replace if there's trouble with the old ones.. alas

were tried putting it together yesterday. it didnt work on first try... a dead mm7xxxx multiplexer. exactly the one i didn't have spare . so bought it off ebay right away... we continue the adventure when it arrives.


i have crapload of spare SSM chips. however, i think the whole story about em going is absolutely blown out of proportion. in all these years i never run into a dead SSM chip. or met anyone who had one die on them. i have run into a friend's board with one dead CEM chip. one IR chip died on my JP8. thats about it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
2K starting bid mate not BIN!
yeah i c.. well it might not go too far, since its pickup only.
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#43
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
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Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
i have crapload of spare SSM chips. however, i think the whole story about em going is absolutely blown out of proportion. in all these years i never run into a dead SSM chip. or met anyone who had one die on them. i have run into a friend's board with one dead CEM chip. one IR chip died on my JP8. thats about it.
I'm glad to hear that, but I also sort of suspected this to be the truth as well. I've not really had many custom/rare ICs on me die either. It's always some stupid shit like TL082s or bad caps...I still think having a couple on hand isn't a bad idea for the future, and there's evidence that someone already replaced a single SSM in mine already (I think one of the 2040s had a sticker on it that the rest didn't have), but, again, the power supply in mine had been rebuilt, so who knows, that may have very well been the cause. never had a dead cem and I've got a buncha CEM synths (though I feel like I'm starting to become one of those CEM haters, jeeeez what's happened to me?) never a single problem with any ICs on my jp8, most of my issues with jp8 are just due to wear (worn mod button, worn rotary switch, got replacements available, need to get that done as well, but I don't want my jp8 out for service until the p5rev2 is all done since it's issues are minor and it's still 100% functional...it's on the TODO list though.

I have a feeling most of those "ssms dying catastrophes" are probably caused by p5's which had severely neglected power supplies, never recapped, etc. and then the thing blows up and takes a buncha chips with it. I have heard of just one SSM horror story, but they are few and far between and I still suspect fixing the power supply first would have likely prevented it. I've heard in particular that they're very static sensitive, but once the chips are on the board/in their sockets, and even better, if the p5 chassis is grounded, I can't imagine this would be a huge deal unless you were just flat out incompetent.

since you're rebuilding it anyway, have you done any upgrades to the power supply? at the very least, it'd be worth doing the 2708->2716 EPROM mod if it hasn't been already, you can then remove 2 of the regulators off the power supply entirely. I have some more information about that if you would like. it's quite simple, but you will need to get new EPROMs burned on 2716s (you can have the existing eprom images burned onto 2716s, just duplicate it to both halves of the 2716 and you should be good). You can also "rev3-ize" the PSU, I have some info about this as well, but the biggest upgrade I've seen is a new transformer, which apparently makes the thing run almost completely cool! technically could be done to a rev2 or rev3, it involves a new transformer that has a second winding which gets used to drive the +5v regulators, instead of dropping all the way down from 22v to 5v, it's a more subtle drop from from 9v or so to 5v, with the other winding (22v) still being used to drive the +15/-15 regulators.
#44
16th May 2012
Old 16th May 2012
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bump to say still no bidders on that pro5!!! £2K... so worth it!
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#45
17th May 2012
Old 17th May 2012
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bump to say still no bidders on that pro5!!! £2K... so worth it!
right? go figure. almost seems too good to be true these days, although those kind of prices weren't so uncommon a year or two ago. kenton midi alone is like, what, £300-400, soo....yeah it's a good deal.

Oh yeah, just an update on my p5 rev2:

I managed to score a NOS cassette interface board, 2 new pots/knobs for the front panel,, and a brand new pitch/mod wheel box with 2 new pitch/mod pots, brackets, everything! For an early shiny/untextured rev2 even! No more hole drilled through my pitch wheel box! yay! I also managed to track down a large rev2 badge for the back. At this point, I should have enough parts to make this thing almost mint, like the seller originally claimed it was, lol. It was VERY lucky to find that mod box panel, I must say. The cassette interface board was just a bonus, my tech was going to just make one on veroboard or something otherwise, but this should be quick and easy now.
#46
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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#47
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Yep... still no bidders, 5 hours to go! Someone should get this
Man, if I were in the UK I'd be making a bid! I can't believe no one's bidding. Maybe the guy's zero feedback is putting folks off.
#48
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Yep, id be all over this if i hadnt bought one recently- mine cost about £3500 with shipping/import... so i think this is a great deal.
I dont know if there will be a bidding frenzy towards the end, maybe someone will get lucky, maybe a dealer will get it and sell it for double!

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Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Man, if I were in the UK I'd be making a bid! I can't believe no one's bidding. Maybe the guy's zero feedback is putting folks off.
#49
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Yep, id be all over this if i hadnt bought one recently- mine cost about £3500 with shipping/import... so i think this is a great deal.
I dont know if there will be a bidding frenzy towards the end, maybe someone will get lucky, maybe a dealer will get it and sell it for double!
Well, just for fun, I put it on my watch list. I predict someone will snag it -- most likely a dealer, as you suggest. With a P-5 & P-10, I don't exactly need another Prophet. But mine are both Rev 3 flavors. I'd love to have a Rev 2. I'd sell the P-5 I've got to have this one. Looks beautiful, too. Plus it's already got the Kenton installed!
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#50
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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I still can't tell if that auction is legit... One line is in engrish;
"Sonically gives the true Prophet 5 rich sound famous worldwide."
...Starting price is so low that it raises many doubts.
...Checked the area it's being sold, read something along the lines of lots of unsolved crimes... Lets hope a lowlife gear dealer is made dissapear when he turns up with his wad of cash.
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#51
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Well... somebody nabbed it. £2,550.00. That's the best deal I've seen on a mint condition Rev2 in quite some time. Someone is either one happy camper or... .
#52
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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im happy to say it was me who won the auction tho we'll see what its like when i get down to pick it up.
Spoke with the guy and he appears kosher so all good on that front.
its just had a full service that cost him £400 as well so im looking forward to getting my hands on it!

Any pointers with what i should look out for on it?
i've not owned one before so any info would be appreciated please
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19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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What you should look out for is gunfire when you go pick it up.
You don't seem like a dealer... so I do hope you make it out with a prophet 5 under your arm.
... If you all goes well and you decide to sell it, get in touch with me. I've wanted to get one for about 10 years
#54
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Quote:
Any pointers with what i should look out for on it?
bring a guitar tuner with you.

ask the guy to leave it switched on for at least 2 hours before you get there.
this is because if it's been calibrated cold it will be out of whack a little when it's warmed up.

check its been on for long enough by touching the back. it should be very hot.

check every function. check the midi. if you can be bothered, check the cassette interface. (do this last after everything else because if the cassette interface is no good you may end up junking the patch memory)

don't forget to check each waveshape out. turn the volume up to max and make sure there's no distortion on the output. listen for crackles squips, blibs, blops and cut outs. all these horrible sounds are due to bad connectivity. nothing major, but will require service if you hear that. if you do hear these sounds and he claims it's just a dirty key, play it through midi to check.

don't freak out if you can turn (or modulate) the pulse width so far that the sound stops. this is normal and good. also the knobs do nothing until you hit EDIT. and make sure the release button is on.

check the calibration as follows:
hit tune. it should tune within 11 seconds at most. hopefully only edit 2 to 6 seconds if its in good shape.

make a patch that has a fast filter envelope, hit unison , turn up resonance. now play a key and listen out for the filter peaking. if you can hear separate peaks, the synth hasn't been calibrated well.

now take the guitar tuner out and plug it in. (you'll still need to hear the audio.)

make a basic square wave patch, no resonance, make sure not to hit the sync key. tune the oscillators as best you can so they play the same note (it doesn't matter which note, just as long as it's the same pitch relative to each other) turn down osc2 in the mixer section, make sure you have the sustain on max and the attack on min for the amp envelope. now save the patch.

hit the tune button

check the tracking and the tuning of the separate voices.

there's five of them and the way to isolate a single voice on the rev2 is to play key with your thumb and hod it down.. lets say middle C.

hold that down and check the guitar tuner. use the master tune to make it hit exactly C.

now play 5 other notes consecutively and hold them down as you play, the synth will allocate a new voice on each key press. on the 5th keypress it will release the voice on middle C.

now take off only your thumb from C and put it back again. the synth has now allocated the next voice to C. check the guitar tuner. hopefully it's still bang on C, if it's out by more than 8 cent, the synth needs a calibration. do the same with the other voices. eventually you'll come back to the perfect C voice again. now edit the patch and turn osc 1 down and osc 2 up. do the same thing (don't hit tune again)

now hit another note with your thumb to check it's tuned to the correct whole note, cycle though the voices to check this new note. this will test the scaling. i know an engineer in london that will service your pro5 for £120 so you can ask the guy to go down on the price buy that much if it only needs calibrating.
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#55
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
bring a guitar tuner with you.
And bring the guitar player along with it. Especially if he plays rugby.
#56
19th May 2012
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im no dealer, or fool for that matter so i'll be on guard all the way...

i was watching this auction from the first day it went live and thought it was a scam all day long until the guy sent me a load of images i'd specifically asked for which were all obviously the same unit.

The thing with Ebay is its so entrenched into everyday life now with is nonsense rules and scare mongering, its put the fear factor into trading and lot of folk have simply forgot how we used to trade beforehand which is good news for me on this occasion it guess!
#57
19th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
bring a guitar tuner with you.

ask the guy to leave it switched on for at least 2 hours before you get there.
this is because if it's been calibrated cold it will be out of whack a little when it's warmed up.

check its been on for long enough by touching the back. it should be very hot.

check every function. check the midi. if you can be bothered, check the cassette interface. (do this last after everything else because if the cassette interface is no good you may end up junking the patch memory)

don't forget to check each waveshape out. turn the volume up to max and make sure there's no distortion on the output. listen for crackles squips, blibs, blops and cut outs. all these horrible sounds are due to bad connectivity. nothing major, but will require service if you hear that. if you do hear these sounds and he claims it's just a dirty key, play it through midi to check.

don't freak out if you can turn (or modulate) the pulse width so far that the sound stops. this is normal and good. also the knobs do nothing until you hit EDIT. and make sure the release button is on.

check the calibration as follows:
hit tune. it should tune within 11 seconds at most. hopefully only 1 to 4 seconds if its in good shape.

make a patch that has a fast filter envelope, hit unison , turn up resonance. now play a key and listen out of the filter peaking. if you can hear separate peaks, the synth hasn't been calibrated well.

now take the guitar tuner out and pug it in. (you'll still need to hear the audio.)

make a basic square wave patch, no resonance, make sure not to hit the sync key. tune the oscillators as best you can so they play the same note (it doesn't matter which note, just as long as it's the same pitch relative to each other) turn down osc2 in the mixer section, make sure you have the sustain on max and the attack on min for the amp envelope. now save the patch.

hit the tune button

check the tracking and the tuning of the separate voices.

there's five of them and the way to isolate a single voice on the rev2 is to play key with your thumb and hod it down.. lets say middle C.

hold that down and check the guitar tuner. use the master tune to make it hit exactly C.

now play 5 other notes consecutively and hold them down as you play, the synth will allocate a new voice and on each key press. on the 5th keypress it will release the voice on middle C.

now take off only your thumb from C and put it back again. the synth has now allocated the next voice to C. check the guitar tuner. hopefully it's still bang on C, if it's out by more than 8 cent, the synth needs a calibration. do the same with the other voices. eventually you'll come back to the perfect C voice again. now edit the patch and turn osc 1 down and osc 2 up. do the same thing (don't hit tune again)

now hit another note with your thumb to check it's tuned to the correct whole note, cycle though the voices to check this new note. this will test the scaling.
Many thanks for the advice GB, Much appreciated mate!
will let you know how i get on
#58
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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sure, i'll give you the email of the sequential engineer for future reference. just drop me a pm me when you have the beast
#59
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skanker View Post
The thing with Ebay is its so entrenched into everyday life now with is nonsense rules and scare mongering, its put the fear factor into trading and lot of folk have simply forgot how we used to trade beforehand ...
'Tis true, 'tis true. My gut tells me you've got yourself a winner. Congrats!
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#60
19th May 2012
Old 19th May 2012
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i had a feeling all the bidders were waiting til the last minute. Even so, that p5 is a steal given that it's already got pretty much every upgrade (well, except that new firmware upgrade which is out, but that's not too hard to do)

good luck with it sir!

update on my situation: Today I got the NOS rev2 cassette interface board and the new mod/pitch wheel box, complete with pots and mounting brackets. I got the new large rev2 rear badge a few days ago and the kenton midi kit has been here for a little while now. At this point, I now have all the parts needed to restore my rev2 to near perfect condition and upgrade the PSU and firmware. I will be scheduling a time with my tech hopefully next week.

I am planning on having the latest version of that new modded firmware installed, apparently the bugs with the live edit mode are fixed and there's now even a way for it to tell you whether the knob is on the default value of the preset using the PS LEDs...the rev3 couldn't even do that...I'm really excited to try that out! It also adds a second LFO now as well, which is just kind of like an added bonus at this point.

btw, this should be helpful for any rev2 owner:

http://analog.fi/index.php?option=co...lloet&Itemid=9

AFAIK there is no complete scan of the rev2 second edition technical manual available online at the moment, but this is the majority of the differences! of important note, the cassette document and the engineering changes! I am going to have my tech check for all those updates!
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