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#91
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I love my ATC-1, sluggish (I never notice) filters and all. It's got banks and banks of presets... Man I'm jonse'n for the ATX-1x though. That f'kr sounds hot.
I've got an original ATC-1 with the external selector together with all 4 cartridges and it's one of my favorites in the studio. The interface has lost of room for improvement, but the sound it makes is wonderful. The envelopes never sounded slow to me, I think that's the SE1 that's got slow envelopes.

If now Studio Electronics would make some new filters that was originally discussed when the ATC launched I would be even happier, but the 4 available can take you very far.
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#92
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #92
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I think... just think.. when someone says slow env when talking about a monosynth they mean it can make good drum sounds... anyone with some keyboard chops can make angel trumpets and devil trombones scream like a banshee with ANY SE gear.. the shit is legit... i have a FR XS.which env ate supper fast... SE's env always fit the instrument imho

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#93
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #93
Bio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depulse View Post
I've got an original ATC-1 with the external selector together with all 4 cartridges and it's one of my favorites in the studio. The interface has lost of room for improvement, but the sound it makes is wonderful. The envelopes never sounded slow to me, I think that's the SE1 that's got slow envelopes.

I had the ATC-X, SE1X and original SE1 and the ATC was as slow as the se1.

In fact until the boomstar every SE synth has slow digital env from the 90'

It's a good thing that they are updated. don't know why it take them so many years.
#94
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
"Back to the raw power and purity of discrete analog––
This music machine's discrete voltage controlled analog oscillators, hand matched transistors in its filters and amplifiers and STUDIO ELECTRONICS' typically expressive programming feature realizes its name: Earth Grounding Subs to Deep Field Shimmers."
So their previous products was not discrete then? Oh well alot of people have been outright fooled over the years!
What is Deep Field Shimmers really? Some one high on crack out on the meadows? I want deep shimmers not the
field part, can i have that please? No?!

Horrray im going to get hand matched transistors! Unbelieveable haaand maaatched traaansiiistoooors! Whooooooaaaaa! Suuuper!

Desperate marketing managers!

In the future (two days from now):Clueless artist asks random
analog manufacturer : Are your transistors hand matched?

Random analog Manufacturer: No we dont do those stupid things!

Clueless artist: Well, then im not going to buy your product because SE said they should be and they are always right.

Cluelsess artist; Are your transistors discrete?

Random analog Manufacturer: No we use OP amps with integrated transistors.

Clueless artist: Well, then im not going to buy your product because SE said they should be and they are always right.

Now i leave it to the GZ drama-queens!

"#:-: sent from my nokia 3310 from 1996 with no apps or games or nothing, it couldn't even send anything barely sms i think?! No?!)
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#95
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #95
Bio
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Yeah SE as always been very strong with marketing... (best synth on earth etc....)

A lot less with promised update, manual etc...

Great synths still.
#96
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #96
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Oh I dunno, I,ve had a lot of Analogue synths over the years
And to me SE do make some of the best synths on earth.

between my SE1X and Omega-8 I have all my Analogue needs
Covered, to be honest the " slow envelope " thing has never been a problem.

LK
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#97
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #97
Bio
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Best for you : no problem !

But claiming that as a "fact" is childish to me. They better spend that time to work on improving their synths !!!

Slow enveloppe and very limited routing have been a big problem for me. And difficult communication about several problems they make in sending the wrong diagram and with even error in it !
#98
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Creep View Post
I think... just think.. when someone says slow env when talking about a monosynth they mean it can make good drum sounds...
It's not only about drum sounds. Faster envelopes makes sound more alive. No matter whether you use it for rave or ambiental music, faster envelopes always seems to be better thing. But, the bigger problem with Studio Electronics synths (at least with ATCX I had) is MIDI timing.

Never than less, I have to agree with the second part of your post. The sound is what makes this machines so special. In right situation (which is about 80% of the time, in a figurative sense), SE synths are elite of modern analog technology for their sound. I mean, there are many great sounding analogs today, but that kind of soft and warm sound I yet wait to hear from competitors.


Studio Electronics analog poly ..... one day...one day...
#99
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #99
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There are lots of great sounding synths with slow envelopes (Oberhiems come to mind), funny, 'cause most of those "slow" synths happen to be some of the best sounding boards too.
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#100
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #100
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Oberheim are not slow like SE synth.

But it definitely depend on what kind of music/sound do you use/want.

For some the slow env are not a problem, still the mini is highly praised for it's enveloppes and sound, for ex, and it's the most revered synth until now.
#101
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #101
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Oh dear. You reckon this is going to make the Telemark obsolete?
#102
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apprendista View Post
Oh dear. You reckon this is going to make the Telemark obsolete?
wasnt Telemark rendered somewhat obsolete already when Tom Oberheim resurrected the SEM line, with midi and patch panel products, and great price/sound..?
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#103
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewspuppet View Post
I have to say though I would use as a desktop and I think the inputs/patch where they are at the bottom would annoy and get in the way of the knobs above it. Would rather see them at the top.
Same here. I don't know if it's an ease of manufacture/purest signal path thing or what, but having chord-in points in the front are annoying. I have an old Allen & Heath mixer with ins in the front, and that always vexed me. Lap full of chords, meh.
#104
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #104
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LK,
thanks for the filter demo's-

very interesting to hear them all...

to my ears the 303 and Cs80 ones sounded the best, with the OB in close 3rd. funnily enough i liked the moog the least!
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#105
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #105
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Yer i love all this new analogue gear, but id really like to see something a little quirkier, with multiple filters in series

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Creep View Post
Looks like the rebirth of analog is in full swing... im hoping for a new synton syrinx or at least some more rarely seen functionality like dual filters or more esoteric circuits.

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#106
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobJB06 View Post
Yer i love all this new analogue gear, but id really like to see something a little quirkier, with multiple filters in series
At some point, when you own 3-4 monosynths and monomodule, it becomes pretty much 'much more-of-the same'. But with filter inputs, you can route them one through an other. One or two genuine vintage synths and one or two flexible modules like this and it's just fine. But there's no point in owning ALL the new synths around IMHO. They are too many...
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#107
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #107
Bio
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There is the minibrute that is more quirkier, inspired by modular waveshaper.

Quote:
But there's no point in owning the new synths around IMHO. They're too many!
You mean : there is no point in owning ALL the new synths ?

If not I don't get what you mean.
#108
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #108
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To address the "slow envelope" moniker which has amused and mildly irritated us over the years. First, people want presets. Second, the software envelope routines we use fire with the same initial timing as a hardware envelope. The difference is the added circuitry needed for programmability. Even when done well, it puts a subtle "veil" over the sound. The SE1/X having an actual Moog VCA is darker than the ATC1/X which uses a different VCA incorporating a 13600 transistor array. With the Omega we improved the fidelity of the supporting circuits and used a different, and more accurate exponential routine. The result was a more open and clean sound. A hardware envelope presents itself with more snap due to the natural discharge of the capacitors and the "realness" of the circuit. So even at the same speed software envelopes lack that element. We can get the software envelope to be instant, but we have to slow them down ever so little to eliminate unpleasant popping and ticking anomalies from the VCA. Prior to 2004, we played it too safe with the starting attack time. Now we are reckless, ha. This just scratches the surface of all the interacting elements, pcb layout, parts selection, signal level, power supply, etc., that affect the presentation of the analog sound.

We are still having fun doing this, so for the grumpy ones out there that are offended by our over the top product hype, please remember that. We are very excited about the BoomStar, it's our first new synthesizer in a long time. There is nothing between the circuits and the output. The "veil" is lifted. Those discrete transistors will sing now.

Sorry for being long winded. The air is clear for at least two more posts.

Greg St. Regis
Studio Electronicss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bio View Post
I had the ATC-X, SE1X and original SE1 and the ATC was as slow as the se1.

In fact until the boomstar every SE synth has slow digital env from the 90'

It's a good thing that they are updated. don't know why it take them so many years.
#109
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #109
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Angel Dust gets me high & I just say no to drugs..
#110
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogia View Post
First, people want presets.
This is the problem. Put enough knobs on things and who needs presets! I think you'll sell a ton of these!
#111
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogia View Post
... We can get the software envelope to be instant, but we have to slow them down ever so little to eliminate unpleasant popping and ticking anomalies from the VCA. Prior to 2004, we played it too safe with the starting attack time.
maybe there's something i'm misunderstanding, but why did you not keep them 'instant' (with the pops/clicks at zero Attack) and let the user make the adjustment if they'd like? might have saved you some grief over the years.
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#112
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock View Post
Put enough knobs on things and who needs presets! I think you'll sell a ton of these!


I'm tempted to buy all four!
#113
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
maybe there's something i'm misunderstanding, but why did you not keep them 'instant' (with the pops/clicks at zero Attack) and let the user make the adjustment if they'd like? might have saved you some grief over the years.
Presumably because Internet Myths would then be slating it for always having clicky VCAs ...
Only took 3 pages for the slating to start this time I see.
#114
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogia View Post

Sorry for being long winded. The air is clear for at least two more posts.

Greg St. Regis
Studio Electronicss
Well, you know G.S. Hater's got to hate. You could remake the model D component by component and someone here would tell you the wood grain was off... or the stain you used creates some inductance that's causing the oscs to not sound as good as the original.

Anyway, my dream is to own an Omega8, but as it stands I'll probably have to make due with my ATC-1. To me it sounds amazing and frankly I'd much rather have something with modern preset management for calling up sounds quickly than super quick envelopes. I've listened to thousands of synth demos and the S.E. stuff is always a clear winner IMO. Perhaps one of these bad boys would be a nice addition until I discover a rich relative has left me a chunk of money.
#115
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
Angel Dust gets me high & I just say no to drugs..
+11
...and I got a pair of them!

btw Greg,nice to see you around here,dont bother with the hatin'.
You guys get my cc everytime you come up with a new puppy.
So pls,bring it on!(boomstar style)
#116
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #116
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I don't like the costs or compromises that having presets on an analog synth cause.

I think this is a great move by a proven company.

Synthgasm

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#117
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Creep View Post
I don't like the costs or compromises that having presets on an analog synth cause.

I think this is a great move by a proven company.
Agreed, SE are in the top league when it comes to quality modern analog. Too much whining and entitlement getting thrown around itt as per. Anyway, no need to focus on that. Let's just look forward to hearing those envs in action.
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#118
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #118
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My Recordings/Credits

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So far this synth really gets my vote. MFB build quality sux. Moog lacks modulations and routings, dsi stuff envs are not right, micromac is too expensive, I just don't care for the Waldorf sound at all.

If this synth sounds like the code, atcx, and se1x with the veil lifted and snappy envs, they hit it out of the park in this price point.
#119
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #119
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Im a momentary hater!
Quote:
Analogia;7701629]To address the "slow envelope" moniker which
has amused and mildly irritated us over the years. First, people want presets.
Presets is what destroyed the music industry!
Quote:
Second, the software envelope routines we use fire with the same initial timing as a hardware envelope. The difference is the added circuitry needed for programmability. Even when done well, it puts a subtle "veil" over the sound.
Veil?!

Quote:
The SE1/X having an actual Moog VCA is darker than the ATC1/X which uses a different VCA incorporating a 13600 transistor array. With the Omega we improved the fidelity of the supporting circuits and used a different, and more accurate exponential routine. The result was a more open and clean sound. A hardware envelope presents itself with more snap due to the natural discharge of the capacitors and the "realness" of the circuit.
Snap is understandable but what is "realness" of the circuit.? Are there "real circuits" and "unreal circuits"? Something like analogue transistors and digital transistors? (i'm listening to a Devo record as im writing this!) Besides there is nothing wrong with the LM13600 if implemented properly. You will get a different sound if envelope is expo and the VCA is expo rather envelope expo and VCA linear.
Quote:
ed software envelopes lack that element. We can get the software envelope to be instant, but we have to slow them down ever so little to eliminate unpleasant popping and ticking anomalies from the VCA. Prior to 2004, we played it too safe with the starting attack time. Now we are reckless, ha. This just scratches the surface of all the interacting elements, pcb layout, parts selection, signal level, power supply, etc., that affect the presentation of the analog sound.
The VCA click phenomenon is a hardware issue, don't matter much if the envelope are generated by software muxed out or by dedicated analogue hardware the click will be there anyway when times are short and VCA not balanced well or the CV rejection figures not handled accordingly.
Quote:
We are still having fun doing this, so for the grumpy ones out there that are offended by our over the top product hype, please remember that. We are very excited about the BoomStar, it's our first new synthesizer in a long time.
Im in grumpy mode now!
But im sure the Boomslang will sell well thanks to that outrageous marketing hype!
Quote:
There is nothing between the circuits and the output. The "veil" is lifted.
Outrageous! .... I demand hand macheted transistors inbetween, NOW!

Anyhow i never understood peoples complaints about the original SE1
didn't sound exactly like the ModelD, i thought it sounded great.
Products should be reviewed on their own merits.
#120
24th March 2012
Old 24th March 2012
  #120
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Wow what an analog renaissance this year has become. SE build quality has been great in the past... if the envs prove to be snappified I'm pretty sure these will be sell like hotcakes. The ARP one in particular fills a void I don't really have an answer for just yet so looking forward to audio demos on that one in particular.
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