Logic 9 or Cubase 6???

[Riceman7890]

Hi everyone. I know the debate will go on forever, but I could use some advice.
Currently I use Reason 6.0 for EDM production. I mainly do house, progressive house, and trance.
I have recently discovered that I am pretty limited with Reason because I don't have access to VST plugins. A drum Synth, Sylenth, and many other plugins I would like to use are inaccessible.

Here is my question. Any advice would be much appreciated. I currently use the PC platform. Should I go out and spend $500 on Cubase 6 for my PC or do you think I would be better of going out and buying a used Mac for 5 or 6 hundred and getting Logic 9 for $200? Money isn't really the issue. It's more about which program will work better for my needs. I don't want to be limited.
I have heard great things about Logic, and Cubase both. What would you do if you were me? My main concerns are easy of use, bugs, and sound quality, as well as Rewire compatibility with Reason 6.

[muziksculp]

I recommend Cubase 6. Especially since you are on PC.

Apple should be close to releasing LP-X, but when exactly is anyone’s guess. But I feel that LP-X will be a big step up from LP9, so if you can wait for LP-X it would be a wiser way to proceed if you are planning to get a Mac. Meanwhile, Cubase 6 on PC would be my choice, it’s a superb DAW, and offers a lot of helpful features that are not available in LP9, plus it works on Mac and PC, so it would be possible to run Cubase 6 on a Mac if you decide to buy a Mac for LP-X.

Steinberg will be updating Cubase 6 to version 6.5 in the near future, maybe March, during the Muzikmesse show in Frankfurt. Version 6.5 will offer 64-bit Rewire 2, (and possibly some other new features), which I feel is the downside at the moment as far as Rewiring is concerned with Reason 6 (64-bit), since Cubase 6 currently offers only Rewire 2 (32-bit) support.

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers,
Muziksculp

[Disease Factory]

Problems with the pc are usb midi sequencing external gear, so if you need multi out midi forget it on pc, go mac all the way because usb works great on the mac and crappy on the pc, its a huge deal breaker honestly.

If pc and all software, go renoise, its 60 bucks and it sounds better than cubase, its strange to get used to, but man i prefer its plugins and sounds and it runs all vsts, its easier to get beats up and running too.

That being said, if you need a piano grid gui, than cubase is the way to go. logic sounds more open in the highs but doesn't have the punch in the bass dept that cubase has, cubase has rolled off highs and an exaggerated low end. BUT. if you run cubase at 48khz and above, it opens up and the high frequencies seem to be there! I prefer cubase over all, better interface, better everything cept midi sucks via usb, so you have to get a pci midi card, and then you have to tune windows, you have to shut off all these background services to get midi to be tight, as to where on the mac, midi is tight no matter what.

[mike vee]

Cubase 6 is AWESOME. It is just so good looking and easy to use. Everything works great and it's so intuitive. Be sure to get a great drum plugin through, no matter what DAW you use. Motu BPM is simply heavenly for me on Cubase.

Anyway, another plus to Cubase is the TONS of free VST plugins, and of those many are even PC only. Many of which have become vital to my production and I could never leave.

I used Reason for a while years ago...and you will just simply cream your pants once you leave Reason and go to Cubase (or any real DAW.) For me, there wasn't even an adjustment period. It was just plain better from the first minute I switched to Cubase.

IMO, Logic is VERY hard to learn. I spent like 2 hours with it one day at my friends house and it seemed so cold and difficult to use. Cubase takes like an hour to master. Really.

[mike vee]

Originally Posted by Disease Factory

Problems with the pc are usb midi sequencing external gear, so if you need multi out midi forget it on pc, go mac all the way because usb works great on the mac and crappy on the pc, its a huge deal breaker honestly.
.

That is just utter crap. I have numerous synths running from my PC on a Motu timepiece and I never had one problem.

[Disease Factory]

Originally Posted by mike vee

That is just utter crap. I have numerous synths running from my PC on a Motu timepiece and I never had one problem.

Ok, record 16th notes at 135bpm on one of your hardware synths, then measure the jitter. I bet its a joke. It was for me on tons of windows machines past windows 2000, because USB midi is a joke it doesnt get priority and it gets interrupted by the os, windows xp, windows vista, windows 7 all do it. windows 98 didnt.

Do the jitter test then get back to me.

Windows 7's Midi OUT jitter disaster

Midi Jitter PCI vs USB

Most who call this hogwash have never done the tests and have no great sense of timing, if they did they would notice it, i noticed my drums flaming on my e6400 sampler via usb midi on windows xp on cubase 4. So.

IT gets worse with higher audio buffer settings, it gets worse with a heavier vst load and plugs running as well. This is not a joke and many people have documented it besides just little old me. The mac and osx handles usb much better, it cant work great on a mac, but not on a windows machine, thank microsoft for that. Cubase 6 on a mac has great timing via usb, but not on a pc.

[Resonance5]

Originally Posted by Disease Factory

logic sounds more open in the highs but doesn't have the punch in the bass dept that cubase has, cubase has rolled off highs and an exaggerated low end. BUT. if you run cubase at 48khz and above, it opens up and the high frequencies seem to be there!

please, be more precise! how did you measure this?

[lowkey]

The only way to reduce midi jitter is to use audio as your midi source. Like a sync lock or similar hardware device.
I know because I'm on a Mac and I can tell you midi is not any better. It is literally impossibly to perfectly sync a drum machine with USB midi interfaces. The midi start message will always differ in latency to when the audio starts because USB is not given priority under the operating system.
Sometimes the latency is not noticeable. Sometimes it's terrible. Depends on CPU usage too.

Cubase vs Logic...which is better...house or techno...there's no real answer. That said cubase will run on PC or Mac.

[Disease Factory]

I have used both extensivly. I prefer midi jitter on the mac, and i prefer cubase's gui and work flow. still prefer reoise for price and sound and ease of getting drums going with fx on differnt ones fast.

All of them are good. Cubase is good at anything above 44khz.

lowkey, jitter has nothing to do with the sync issues you are talking about. sync issues arrive from the clocks being slightly different even at the same settings. i have tried to import cubase files via omf and audio tracks back and forth from cubase and logic only to find events not lining up at the grids becuase the tempos are slightly different even at the same tempos.

[ctrlshft]

As a fellow avid Reason 6 user as well as fan of Cubase's UI/workflow, gotta say I'm with Bryan on this one, mac+cubase 6 has been much tighter for midi seq than it was on my win7 box (post optimization too). Not looking to get into a format debate, but since picking up my MBP I've spent a lot more time making music and a lot less time dealing with driver updates/software troubleshooting/etc. Since OP is asking for opinions, my vote is get a decent (early 2011 or so is more than fine and cheaper if you can find it refurb'd) macbook pro or imac, and cubase 6. Logic is excellent too, but personally Cubase clicks better with me for workflow and stability.

re: Cubase sample rates - IMO 48khz is sort of a sweet spot anyway for keeping cpu/process power use low on stuff (if one is using UAD plugs this is especially important), getting the most out of upsampling, and really being able to appreciate the upper sonic registers, but haven't really dealt too much with apparent low passing @ 44.1k, will have to compare.

[Resonance5]

my mixes are 44100 32 bit in cubase and analyzers say they are bright enough

[4damind]

IMO Cubase 6 is the better option. Newer audio engine, some better features and is regularly updated. All 2 years there is a new version with more or less big improvements for a small update-fee. Bugs will be regularly fixed and sometimes this smaller free updates also have new features.
With Logic this days nobody can say if it's the last Logic or if Apple is interested for further development or stuff.. It's not a safe investment this days (that's also while some people thinking about going away from Logic).

Midi works great with Windows 7 but it needs a proper interface and there are not many options this days for bigger interfaces (IMO only ESI and Motu).

Puh, I know some also well known people (like Tischmeyer) preferring Cubase for the sound and saying that the Logic audio engine is dated and would sound bad... But I'm always a bit skeptical about such "findings".

[clixor]

Originally Posted by 4damind

Midi works great with Windows 7 but it needs a proper interface and there are not many options this days for bigger interfaces (IMO only ESI and Motu).
.

Sorry, but this is nonsense, a lot of 'older' interfaces now have their drivers upgraded to make them w7 compatable. Like my old 8portse (via parallel port and 3rd party drivers). Rocksolid timing!
Only thing really important is to avoid usb interfaces on PC as midi problems likely won't ever be fixed in windows.

[Disease Factory]

Yup microsoft screwed up usb on its os, osx didn't.

I hear all these null this null that arguments. Still i think the daws sound different, and they have different fx. Honestly now cubase comes with as much as logic does and their stuff sounds ok now, but pre 5, cubase sounded awful, their plugs sucked too. Much better in 5 and 6. Work flow and the effects and eqs have a big impact on the sound of a daw.

Still think 48k opens up the highs way more on cubase, 44khz in cubase sounds like mud to me. I wont go mac because i use to many pc only plugins now. Trancewave being the one i use most.

[Resonance5]

the difference you percieve depends on conversion... imo

[mike vee]

man, i came from having like 4 MPCs since the mid 90s to about 2006 so i KNOW tight timing. I have also had a few keyboard workstations back in the day like the triton and i know shitty timing.

I built a computer so i could run at 32/96K with 32 buffer at all times because i cant even stand a few ms of latency. That being said, MIDI wise, with my 6 core windows 7 machine running cubase, my timing has always been just as tight as my MPCs, well to be honest maybe like 5-7% less tight because we all know MPCs are the king of feel. I use a motu midi interface and it has been ROCK SOLID. it all depends on how fast your CPU is. if you are low on resources, then yes, you may inquire midi timing issues on mac or PC. The same thing used to happen on my hardware MOtif when it started to get maxed. You gotta build a beast. This day and age i cant believe people are still bitching about CPU power and such when 6 and 12 core CPUs are standard (uh except on iMACs still running 90 dollar i5 CPUs for 2 grand) and you can easily have 24GB of ram. If you wanna get in the game you gotta have the uniform. Run that shit at 32/96 and your latency will go down so freakin low... it's so easy in today's age. People act like we are still on Pentium 4s and shit.

I will agree that USB and firewire for AUDIO sucks though, no doubt. PCIe all the way.

[kijix84]

Originally Posted by Disease Factory

That being said, if you need a piano grid gui, than cubase is the way to go. logic sounds more open in the highs but doesn't have the punch in the bass dept that cubase has, cubase has rolled off highs and an exaggerated low end. BUT. if you run cubase at 48khz and above, it opens up and the high frequencies seem to be there! I prefer cubase over all, better interface, better everything cept midi sucks via usb, so you have to get a pci midi card, and then you have to tune windows, you have to shut off all these background services to get midi to be tight, as to where on the mac, midi is tight no matter what.

Please explain to me why you think cubase has 'rolled off highs'.

I've been using Cubase for years; used Protools and Logic as well and never heard a difference between them.

[Disease Factory]

Originally Posted by mike vee

man, i came from having like 4 MPCs since the mid 90s to about 2006 so i KNOW tight timing. I have also had a few keyboard workstations back in the day like the triton and i know shitty timing.

I built a computer so i could run at 32/96K with 32 buffer at all times because i cant even stand a few ms of latency. That being said, MIDI wise, with my 6 core windows 7 machine running cubase, my timing has always been just as tight as my MPCs, well to be honest maybe like 5-7% less tight because we all know MPCs are the king of feel. I use a motu midi interface and it has been ROCK SOLID. it all depends on how fast your CPU is. if you are low on resources, then yes, you may inquire midi timing issues on mac or PC. The same thing used to happen on my hardware MOtif when it started to get maxed. You gotta build a beast. This day and age i cant believe people are still bitching about CPU power and such when 6 and 12 core CPUs are standard (uh except on iMACs still running 90 dollar i5 CPUs for 2 grand) and you can easily have 24GB of ram. If you wanna get in the game you gotta have the uniform. Run that shit at 32/96 and your latency will go down so freakin low... it's so easy in today's age. People act like we are still on Pentium 4s and shit.

I will agree that USB and firewire for AUDIO sucks though, no doubt. PCIe all the way.

Just do the tests then post them, then i will believe you. Till then i'm very skeptical of what you are saying. My past experiences doing this on my pcs, my friends pcs and studio pcs has made me very angry with microsoft. I posted links to others complaining. If yours is rock solid, cool, but prove it please so you know for certain. Are you sequencing drums outboard? or fast sequences? This is where you hear it the most.

[Disease Factory]

Originally Posted by kijix84

Please explain to me why you think cubase has 'rolled off highs'.

I've been using Cubase for years; used Protools and Logic as well and never heard a difference between them.

In 44khz. Cubase sounds terrible in the hi freqs. I did tests and i could tell. When i started doing things at 48k, the hi end opened up big time. From my ears and experience, i really noticed. Just give it a try and do the same thing in 44lhz and 48khz then use lots of hats and hi end sounds in a mix, you will see what i am talking about.