Which sampler for sampling the TR 808?

[Goa-Dubs]

Ive got the MPC 4000 and you can go deep with this,filters resampling ect.24 bits ect.Fantastic sequencer.Better than the later models (5000 is cool)Really great instrument and you can get a good deal.Octatrack is excellent too.

[harness]

Originally Posted by elan

I've sampled it with a s3000xl and it is better then it was (for that matter even the MPC 2000xl) just I was looking for something even more creamy, rubbery

have you tried pulling that quality you like forward with eq > compression after the akai? maybe even a transient shaper?

[Ossicle]

Originally Posted by bluegreengold

mpc3000 is hits all those adjectives

Agreed.

(note that the S3000 or S2800 will give you pretty much the the MPC 3000 sound but not the S3000XL which has worse sounding (MPC 2000?) converters)

Of course, it's not just the sampler. It's also how you sample (input gain etc.) and post processing (console, buss compressor etc) that affects how bouncy your 808 will sound. I'd say the swing plays a part there as well.

So the MPC 3000 would probably be your best bet IMO.

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by harness

I really like E-mu for mangling. If its just a straight 808 kick, I use the S3000xl for punch. I would like to check out a S760 as they are real cheap and plentiful, but I got no rackspace for it. Control seems cumbersome without monitor/mouse, and have no room for that either

Mannn! That is nuuuuts!!! I never seen that before and always wondered how old school d&b got those crazy sounds, an 808 or bass, mad overdrive and lots of resampling? Cool.

And..I thought you guys said the 6400 doesn't sound good? ..sure sounds damn phat to me in this video.. (err, might be the technique more so).. i don't think my s950 can sound that crazy phat, deep and bassy.

[elan]

Originally Posted by xanax

I never tried an ESI series but they were the budget line so i would definitely go with E4 series, especially at the prices they are going for these days but theyre are plenty of other options out there... roland s series used in house a lot but since you already have an akai i'd suggest an american sampler like e-mu or ensoniq, generally warmer sounding.

I already had an Ensoniq ASR-X, to me it sounds a bit lo fi and dated.. I like certain things that happen in the lows... but it has a dated sound I can't get a rid off.. also it has not much headroom... At least that was my experience

The Roland s-series.. I don't know I've heard something from it but sounds a bit dull maybe? I don't know how to describe it, but I hear the color verywell.. it's like a big bandpass

Yeah.. I've just listened to some shoot outs.. another thing is using it.. but take this and add that is one of the most difficult to use.. and it is not really tempting..

Now the only one that makes me curious it is the E-mu (e5000 or so..) but if you put it in the same league of the Ensoniq... uhm... then no

I know they are all legendary samplers and I'd like to have all of them.. but I have to make a choice accordingly to my taste :P and what I'd like to get from it

If I need a dirty sound I also have the s900.. so to speak

[elan]

Originally Posted by harness

have you tried pulling that quality you like forward with eq > compression after the akai? maybe even a transient shaper?

Yes yes, I mean, I can get the sound I'm after, I'm just trying to find a sampler that does it better before processing it, or, ideally, without processing...

I haven't much hardware and I don't like plug ins that much.. I mean unprocessed sound usually has something more to me and processing it with good outboard keeps that thing, but with plugs it is more grainy I don't know...

I'd like to have just two max 3 samplers that do different things to get the sound I'm after without or just a little processing

Originally Posted by Ossicle

Agreed.

(note that the S3000 or S2800 will give you pretty much the the MPC 3000 sound but not the S3000XL which has worse sounding (MPC 2000?) converters)

Of course, it's not just the sampler. It's also how you sample (input gain etc.) and post processing (console, buss compressor etc) that affects how bouncy your 808 will sound. I'd say the swing plays a part there as well.

So the MPC 3000 would probably be your best bet IMO.

Well the s3000xl doesn't sound like the MPC.. much more open, sums better, less constricted

But I haven't ever tried the s3000 (the s3200 is the same as the 3000?)

Would you like to share how would you use the gain in the s3000xl when you sample? Or in general, how do you use the gain? You keep the gain at zero and set the level from the daw? High? Low? How much more or less?

Thanks!

[xanax]

Originally Posted by elan

Now the only one that makes me curious it is the E-mu (e5000 or so..) but if you put it in the same league of the Ensoniq... uhm... then no

no, i put them together because the 2 companies obviously share common history but ensoniq asr series definitely colors the samples a lot more in an obvious way... they are really well suited for hip-hop & french house.. i personally like it, but if you are looking for something more neutral yet that enhances frequencies in that american way for lack of a better term, i seriously suggest checking out the e-mu Exxxx series, probably the ultimate of all rack samplers and fantastic value atm..

[elan]

Originally Posted by xanax

no, i put them together because the 2 companies obviously share common history but ensoniq asr series definitely colors the samples a lot more in an obvious way... they are really well suited for hip-hop & french house.. i personally like it, but if you are looking for something more neutral yet that enhances frequencies in that american way for lack of a better term, i seriously suggest checking out the e-mu Exxxx series, probably the ultimate of all rack samplers and fantastic value atm..

yeah, I like it to, I think I like every sampler, every one has a different way to reproduce the sound, but I hate them when they don't give me the sound I'm after :P I mean if they are not suited for what I'm looking for

Thanks, I'll check out the E-mu.. just here they are not that cheap, they still cost around 4/500 euros and they don't sell them, but they don't lower the price.. so if you pay that money for it and then isn't what you were looking for... you can't sell it unless losing a lot of money

BTW, s6000? Anyone can describe its sound? Having the Akai interface, I mean.. could be interesting

[jaytranzmit]

Why not give some examples of the sound you want to hear. Would make it easier than saying clean and rubbery

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by elan

I mean I got 2 mpc2500, the first used and was defective.. then after an year or so, I thought... well.. I get a new one because I'm really hating the random errors it gets triggering the pads.. and other stuff

This is why people still buy the 60, 3000, and 4000.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by harness

have you tried pulling that quality you like forward with eq > compression after the akai? maybe even a transient shaper?

On the way into the akai might be even better. I mean, it's definitely the case that different samplers have different flavors, but the recording chain is kinda crucial. What is the benefit of going straight into the sampler from the 808? You could probably get what you want with eq and dynamic processing to taste on the way in.

[Sudad G]

To get the pure TR-808 sound 100% use the original hardware. It's my opinion.

I own a lot of hardware samplers for different duties and I use them even today in the time of soft samplers.

Emu E6400 Ultra: Very powerfull low end frequency range. The mid frequency range is sometimes too soft for me. Hifi sounding highs. My favorite sampler for kicks and basses.
It has this typically U.S. "boooom" sound. Maybe you could give it a try for 808 kicks. Great for Drum&Bass, Jungle etc..Nice filters. Good D/A converters, but less good sounding A/D converters.

Akai S-1100 V4.3: The studio/broadcast version of Akai S-1000 with better A/D converters. In my opinion one of the best sounding Akai sampler ever built. Much better then the cheap sounding A/D convertors of the S-3000 series. In the S-5000/6000 Akai went back again to these S-1100 converters. Very clean, linear sounding and stereophonic. It's like with keys playabel CD-player under your fingers. Low end frequency range is correct, but don't expect more. No bass or high frequency boosting like an Emu or Roland. It just boosts little bit the low mid frequency range in a very smooth way, which makes it ideal for HH-hats, vocals, drums, percussion- and drumloops. The filters sound boring and so it's not ideal for replicate synthsounds. The most neutral sounding sampler for me. Because of that it was used in the past for HD-recording when PC's and Macs weren't powerfull enough for that. It has Timecode / SMPTE etc. Very good Midi timing. This sampler is recommanded for drums. A lot of famous drummers used it. Nice effect processor on board which contains a good sounding stereo delay. The reverbs are dated.

Roland S-750/770: One of the best A/D and D/A converters that I have ever heard in a sampler. It has an inside built softclipping limiter, which is usefull if you sample via analog ins. I recorded vocals in the mid nineties with it. Awesome! But....yes it colours the sound a little bit into a hifi sounding character, but the high frequeny range in a little better way then Emu E6400. The mid frequencies are cuted little bit. Not too much, but it gives the sound this smooth sounding Roland character. The basses are very round and smooth. I like the basses from it. Cool subbass. High quality timestretch algorithm. In that time better then any DAW for that. I used this sampler in the past for drum&bass style music.
The filters are awsome (same like in JD-990) and very musically. It has resampling features which made him to a "poor mans fairlight" in that time. It's not only a sampler it's also a very great synth. It has from all samplers the highest output signal, although the outs are unbalanced. Great for synthsounds, pads, resampling sounds, stacksounds, strings and of course basses. If you sample only the short waveforms of D-50 or JD-990 and you copy the D-50's or JD's sound parameters of filter, ENV and Amps it could sound exactly like them.
For drums it is ok, but rhytmic things are not the strengths of the S-750/770, because Roland had not 100% tight MIDI timing in that time. But you could activate a called "Phase lock function" to get a better Midi timing. I had no problems in the past with drums. But therefore I like the Akai more.
It colours the sound in a magical cool way - but ok - it's not 100% neutral like an Akai S-1100. It gives your sound an own character, which sounds very expensive and warm.

Kurzweil K2000: Good sampler and great synth. It is the best sampler for filtering complex musicloops. For me the obligate "disco house sampler". Its sound is between Akai and Emu. Not so much low end frequencies like an Emu or smooth like a Roland and it boosts the high mids a little bit. A bit more harsh sound than Akai, Roland or Emu, but ideal to get this 70 disco sound. With its huge collection of filters a great synthsizer. Good for emulating other synthesizers.

Softsamplers like Kontakt, Motu, Halion or Shortcircuit would be also a good choice for you, but they sound like the converters of your soundcard sounds.


Sudad G

[d1rtynyc]

The modern Akai samplers have always been reliable and sound great.

You can get a S5000 for less than $200. Rouge has one now for $195.

Plus, it's got usb so you can edit or process any sample you have in a DAW and then import back to the S5000.
Hell, you can even record into a top notch interface in the DAW, edit, mangle (if you desire) and then import.

That gives you a ton of flexibility and rock solid performance.

Plus, you can grab a Compact Flash drive for it to store a massive library.

[dimconcept]

Whoever said that "EMU samplers were overrated" must be smoking something. I own an 808 and have sampled it in almost every way imaginable. The most interesting results to me were using an EIII Rack (dark, round with a nice nipple) and using an Esynth keyboard (EIV class sampler) via a SPDIF connection to my board (very, very clean and bright).

Here is a summary of notable results:

TR-808 -> EIII Rack (this is THE sound for me.. the analog filters really make a difference in perceived warmth)
TR-808 -> EMU eSynth (best clean sound when using digital connections)
TR-808 -> Akai MPC4000 (nice and clean, but bottom end is rather cold)
TR-808 -> Oberheim Prommer -> Linndrum (8bit low end 20ms "thump")
TR-808 -> Roland VP9000 (good, but not warm enough for me)
TR-808 -> Roland Vsynth (actually quite nice.. probably 2nd best "clean sound")
TR-808 -> Machinedrum mkII SPS (meh... milktoast 808)
TR-808 -> EMU SP12 Turbo (classic sound for the underground)
TR-808 -> Casio RZ1 (dirty, raw hip hop sound)

I could go on, but these were the most interesting sample results for me. Again, this is all from my personal gear and to my taste.

[Sudad G]

Whoever said that "EMU samplers were overrated" must be smoking something.

Yes of course - or he connected it to a 90$ cheap Behri....ups...mixer...

[Sudad G]

I would like to check out a S760 as they are real cheap and plentiful, but I got no rackspace for it. Control seems cumbersome without monitor/mouse, and have no room for that either

@harness:
Watch out for a S-770/750 Sampler (3 rack units). The S-760 (1 rack unit), hasn't that great A/D and D/A convertors. It sounds thin. But the filters are the same - also good.
You could programm some JUMPS for the most used operations. Then you don't need monitor or mouse.


Sudad G

[Sudad G]

@elan

I would look for a used AKAI S-5000/6000 or S-1100 Sampler. Many producers used this samplers for replicate TR-808 and 909 sounds.

Why you don't look for a TR-808 clone? There are many of them on the market. Hard- and software clones.

Or the TS-808 Plugin (link http://tactilesounds.blogspot.com/p/...thesizers.html )

Sudad G

[Goa-Dubs]

Dont sleep on this baby...

[fooddude]

What's so great about the s760's filters?? Are they analog? I doubt it right?

I am really interested in getting a big memory vintage 32mb sampler for re-edit/remix work (I only have small memory samplers (maxed out s950 and mpc60), and thinking of either the akai s1000/s1100 or the roland s760. s760 for the sound and rave reviews, cheap price, but a con in it is I heard it's a pain to program compared to akai. S1000/1100 for the ease of use, especially as I own akai's already and know my way around them already; con is I guess it will be yet another akai in my rig and I already have that akai sound.

[Goa-Dubs]

Originally Posted by fooddude

What's so great about the s760's filters?? Are they analog? I doubt it right?

I am really interested in getting a big memory vintage 32mb sampler for re-edit/remix work (I only have small memory samplers (maxed out s950 and mpc60), and thinking of either the akai s1000/s1100 or the roland s760. s760 for the sound and rave reviews, cheap price, but a con in it is I heard it's a pain to program compared to akai. S1000/1100 for the ease of use, especially as I own akai's already and know my way around them already; con is I guess it will be yet another akai in my rig and I already have that akai sound.

The dj70 mk11 above is basically like the s760 and is pretty easy to programme.Easier than the later.Roland filters are v liquidy and sonically deep.Great scsi and good modulation potential.I would get another dj70 mk11 without a doubt.Sleeper

[Ossicle]

Originally Posted by elan

Would you like to share how would you use the gain in the s3000xl when you sample? Or in general, how do you use the gain? You keep the gain at zero and set the level from the daw? High? Low? How much more or less?

Sorry, I haven't used the 3000xl. I only have the MPC 3000 (and the SP 1200 which is probably not what you're after here).

With my MPC I would use mid or high input gain because it makes the beats punchier (and a little noisier but who cares). I really don't have a clue whether this applies to other Akai samplers. I would probably sample the 808 kick as dry as possible and process slightly afterwards. SSL style buss compression works for me.

Really, just get an S2800. I recently sold mine for 80 euros after getting the MPC 3000 and it sounded the same to me. It's only 2 channels, but if you only need it for the sound and use a DAW, it should be enough.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by fooddude

Mannn! That is nuuuuts!!! I never seen that before and always wondered how old school d&b got those crazy sounds, an 808 or bass, mad overdrive and lots of resampling? Cool.

And..I thought you guys said the 6400 doesn't sound good? ..sure sounds damn phat to me in this video.. (err, might be the technique more so).. i don't think my s950 can sound that crazy phat, deep and bassy.

and not a single sampling cd !!!

[Ossicle]

I made this short comparison which might give you some idea how the MPC 3000 sounds ("creaminess"). So here are two clips with Goldbaby 808 samples ("original" not "tape"). Absolutely no plugins in Logic were used (no copressors, eq's etc.). I first made the clip in Logic, just dragging audio samples to the arranger. Then I sampled the same sounds into the MPC 3000 and reprogrammed the same beats with the MPC's sequencer.

It's very unscientific and there are a lot of "methodological errors" (kick was slightly overdriven when sampled into the MPC, recorded back to logic though a Sony MX-P21 mixer (eq bypassed), slightly clips, levels not matched, Audiofire 12 might not be fully transparent etc.). Both clips could be improved with further processing, buss comp and so on. But for what it's worth anyway.

[kpsiegel]

I realized I have never even used my best option for sampling my 808. I am almost embarrassed to have never done this. I have a Kurzweil 2600 SX. I should pop my 808 into there and use those VAST engines to mangle to taste. For some reason I just never even tried that. So ungearslutzlike of me.

I am sadly recovering from surgery now but hobbled on up to the studio and started patching it up but even putting patch cords in and out of my patchbays just hurt too damn much. My fiance' was wondering what the hell I was doing. Not worth arguing the importance of trying this out ;-) I really wish she knew enough to patch this all in for me. Or maybe I don't wish that...

Anyone else done this before?

[cixelsyd]

The best 808 samples I've ever heard were stock sounds from the ensoniq eps 16 plus. I also have a z4,emu e4 ultra,Roland mv8000, varios, machine drum and spectralis.

The eps 16 plus kills them all. (for me)

[Goa-Dubs]

Originally Posted by cixelsyd

The best 808 samples I've ever heard were stock sounds from the ensoniq eps 16 plus. I also have a z4,emu e4 ultra,Roland mv8000, varios, machine drum and spectralis.

The eps 16 plus kills them all. (for me)

Actually your right.My favourite were from my EPS factory samples on floppy.Absolutely wonderful gritty and vintage sounding(808 soundset).Great with the built in sequencer too.I have the asr10 but its not to punchy for drums.

[squatski]

roland s330

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by grabme

Definitely the Roland S770 or 750, could be same with the 760 but not tried that one. This range of samplers has some serious low end, quite unlike any of the Akai series.

Agreed

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by cixelsyd

The best 808 samples I've ever heard were stock sounds from the ensoniq eps 16 plus. I also have a z4,emu e4 ultra,Roland mv8000, varios, machine drum and spectralis.

The eps 16 plus kills them all. (for me)

My favorite sounding 'big american' sampler. The 808 disk does sound good.
Would be fun to compare stock 808 disk sounds. The MPC60 disk from Roger Linn is really nice. The kick is almost perfect. The Casio FZ-1 808 disk is bizarre sounding with loop points added, but is cool in a fake plastic way.