Can a Roland S-750 run the Director-S sequencer?

[Jidis]

Got a line on an S-750 locally. I've still got all my 550 library/sample disks as well as the SYS-503 sequencer package. Did they dump the sequencer functions on the 7 series, or is there a chance it will run Director-S? I've seen it (750) described as an "updated S-550 with enhanced sample editing capability".

Trying to relive my childhood by rounding up my old gear. Got the Fostex 1/4" 8-track and my SPX90II effects back now. A 7xx Roland will have to suffice for my 550 for now.

Thanks!

[GearOnTheGo]

Sounds fun. Those Roland Samplers were Smoooooth! Not as much bite as the Akai's... Not as crunchy as the EMU's... Just really sweet. I had a W30 for years, than a 550. Never got up to the 750 but friends of mine had them and they were sweet.

Eventually I just went in for the Akai S3000 as my primary stereo sampler.

[Jidis]

Yeah, a producer friend here had the W30 too. That whole mouse/display thing along with the sequencer software really put them ahead of their time back then. Almost like an early DAW. Hope this deal goes through and I get to play with one again soon. I've still got the DIN to sub video cable, but a working one of those old style CGA screens or whatever will be a bitch to find. I guess I can take the composite out to a TV or something for now. Maybe there's a way to adapt to VGA.

Still wondering on the sequencer software. I even had an old copy of Keyboard here from '92 where they reviewed it and there was no mention of Director-S.

George

[spaceacademy]

S750 doesnt run any other stuff. Its completely self contained.
The S750s filters are brilliant btw. No other samplers filters come close, and yes I mean even Emu which I always thought was overrated.

[Jidis]

Thanks Spaceacademy!

I was sort of starting to figure that out last night.

I had the manual and every other piece of web info I could find and nothing mentioned it at all. The manual even mentions using "a sequencer" to play it. That was a really bad move IMO. That was one of the coolest things about that previous series, but I guess computer sequencers were getting common enough by then that they figured they could lose it.

If this guy gets back with me today, I'll probably go get it just because it's so cheap and I can see what's on some of these old disks. Be cool if I could find someone around here who wants to upgrade an S-550 and swap later.

George

PS- I had totally forgotten that the Director-S actually had a serial dongle. I can't even remember having to disconnect the mouse to use that, but I guess I did at some point.

[Oli]

Originally Posted by Jidis

I've still got the DIN to sub video cable, but a working one of those old style CGA screens or whatever will be a bitch to find. I guess I can take the composite out to a TV or something for now. Maybe there's a way to adapt to VGA.

There are things like composite to VGA adapters around. The quality is not quite as nice as you would get on a dedicated monitor. From memory, Don Solaris figured a way to adapt the video signal to a Commodore VDU (1084 maybe?). For what they are, they give a pretty decent image.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by Jidis

I've still got the DIN to sub video cable, but a working one of those old style CGA screens or whatever will be a bitch to find. I guess I can take the composite out to a TV or something for now. Maybe there's a way to adapt to VGA.

There are CGA to VGA convertor boards made primarily to update arcade game machines. You could install one inside the 750 in order to provide a vga output.

I bought an external device that does the scan rate and plug conversion, and it works -- however at the moment I'm getting a jumpy signal. I presume the problem is a poor cable or perhaps a ground loop.

The internal boards are half the price (only ~ $30), and you'll avoid weird cable issues, however you'll need to look at the schematics in order to find a place to tap the power line and to figure out the pin connections.

They are certainly workable with the composite -- even workable from the LCD screen -- it's quite large on the 750 / 770, however the color RGB output is 100x better


A commodore 1084 should be compatible straight out the box, but it's nice to have VGA out -- then you can use a KVM box to share the monitor with your PC.

[Jidis]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Well, it's here now. That is one nice looking box. Reminds me of my K2500RS. Still bummed about that sequencer though.

This unit's got a 3-prong power cord hard wired into the hole in the back. He said they couldn't find the cord. I'm guessing it was one of those weird smaller rectangulars that Roland liked? May try to get a proper jack back on there.

Also now need to write a working OS disk. Hope all that stuff (the floppy drive,etc.) is still OK. The display doesn't look all that bright, but it's OK in low lighting. I also used the black and white composite jack to a small TV and that was OK.

Yeah, I saw those arcade adapter boards last night when I looked. I also saw some CGA to VGA adapter cables for cheap, but I'm not sure what the guts were. That stuff may be an option if I get serious enough about using it. For most of the time I ran a 550, I had it in a two space Anvil rack box with an AppleIIc green monochrome sitting on it (see picture). That was one cool looking setup. The Apple monitor has this little tiny screen with really sharp bright green contrast (not like those old fuzzy green ones). It also sits up off the desk on a neat looking U-shaped stand. Sadly, the transformer died in it.

Take Care

George

PS- One thing I won't miss on the 550 (if it's fixed) was that it had this way of internally dumping CRT noise onto the analog outs. There was no way around it that I could find, so I had to physically disconnect any monitor cord before I did a mixdown or anything important, or I'd get a low level hum in it.

I had it in a two space Anvil rack box with an AppleIIc green monochrome sitting on it

cool! Somebody else evidently had a 550 running that same screen:
http://www.synthfind.com/wp-content/...01-300x225.jpg
Looks like they didn't have the nifty aluminum stand though.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by Jidis

I'm guessing it was one of those weird smaller rectangulars that Roland liked?

Typical roland / korg 2 prong.

Originally Posted by Jidis

Also now need to write a working OS disk. Hope all that stuff (the floppy drive,etc.) is still OK.

It can be really frustrating to get the OS working cause it's actually kinda tricky to make the disk from an image, and then when you do, if it doesn't work it's hard to tell if it's the floppy or drive. If the drive is bad, it's probably easier to get scsi zip drive than a replacement floppy. PM if you need help -- someone did the same for me when I damaged the HD on my 770.

Originally Posted by Jidis

Yeah, I saw those arcade adapter boards last night when I looked. I also saw some CGA to VGA adapter cables for cheap, but I'm not sure what the guts were.

VGA and CGA operate at different scan rates so you need both a scan converter and an adapter cable. The adapter cable you need is 9 pin DIN to DB9.

[spaceacademy]

Originally Posted by Jidis

I'll probably go get it just because it's so cheap and I can see what's on some of these old disks. Be cool if I could find someone around here who wants to upgrade an S-550 and swap later.

Why? The S750 is light years ahead of the S-550. The 550 would be fine I guess for some 12 bit action (im assuming its 12 bit) but in terms of usability and sound/filters the 750 is the biz.

I dont know for sure but it wouldnt surprise me if the s750 loaded s-550 disks. Probably does an internal conversion.

PS
Just to add that you did get the mouse with it? If not then your experience wont be a lot of fun without it. And attaching a monitor is also highly advisable. Until you secure an RGB monitor just use the monochrome out.

[Jidis]

Bluegreengold-

Yeah, this thing has just reminded me how much I hated floppies. Had to track down one of the regular density ones for this. SDisk actually ran on XP and wrote me a disk, but the 750 read it, then reported a disk error and refused to do anything. A second floppy wrote and read OK, but it took about five minutes for the 750 disk read countdown to complete. I need to work on getting an OS on something other than floppy later on (got several ZIPs & SCSI HDs).

It looks like maybe the machine is defaulting to having an external mouse. The tracking is screwed up and I can't navigate menus. It just quickly scrolls down into the corner. I have mice scattered around. I can probably dig up a 9-pin serial.

I swear now I think the backlight must be dead on this display though. It's real dark even at max contrast.

@Spaceacademy- Yeah, it's supposed to do 550 disks. I mainly just wanted something that could fully load sample data as well as the sequences and was looking forward to seeing the little bouncing ball sequence app.

From what I'm remembering, the 550 had a 12-bit input stage, so some of the factory disks sounded better than what you would record into it. I think it was 16 on internal processing and playback. Not that the 7 series won't sound tons better anyhow, but I did sort of get it for nostalgic purposes.

Take Care

<edit> Forgot Bluegreengold - I actually do still have the Roland DIN to DB9 cable, so I'm good there. Just need to do the VGA/rate thing.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by Jidis

It looks like maybe the machine is defaulting to having an external mouse. The tracking is screwed up and I can't navigate menus. It just quickly scrolls down into the corner. I have mice scattered around. I can probably dig up a 9-pin serial.
.

DO NOT plug in any old serial mouse. The roland uses MSX format. It is possible to burn out the mouse port. If you have the old mouse for the 550 then you're good. Otherwise PITA.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by Jidis

It looks like maybe the machine is defaulting to having an external mouse. The tracking is screwed up and I can't navigate menus. It just quickly scrolls down into the corner. I have mice scattered around. I can probably dig up a 9-pin serial.

You can turn the mouse off by holding down f1 as you boot.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by Jidis

I need to work on getting an OS on something other than floppy later on (got several ZIPs & SCSI HDs).

Slap on a zip drive and then boot with the mouse turned off. You'll be able to navigate to the disk utilites and format a zip, then copy over the OS.

[Jidis]

Bluegreengold-

Much thanks for that F1 tip! I'll try that in a bit.

Also for the mouse info. Man, that sort of sucks. I don't even remember getting any oddball mouse when I had the 550, but I swear I don't remember having an actual Roland or anything. Thought it was just Radio Shack junk. I'll try to look around for that MSX. Hope it's not too ridiculously uncommon/expensive. BTW- That RC-100 must be like the Holy Grail now. I think I may have even seen one in person back in the day at Washington Music.

I did briefly plug a serial Kensington trackball into this 750 to try to stop that crazy tracking thing, but it didn't seem to have any effect. Hope the mouse circuitry's not already damaged.

George

****Gadzooks-----> Just saw that MU-1 mouse on a completed eBay for 70 bucks (no friggin way). Speaking of which, what exactly is a 750 worth in the US around now? Don't see any of them on any past or present eBays. -Thanks!

[Silverfish]

If you're handy with a soldering iron and have an eprom burner you can actually build an adapter that will let you use any serial mouse or any ps/2 mouse.

Here

I haven't done this myself, but it's on my to do list for my S-550. Gotta get an eprom burner first...

Also, I've seen new usb/floppy emulators that supposedly work. There's the hXc emulator, but last I checked the form factor doesn't really just slip in a 3.5" slot. There's also another version designed for textile sewing machines, and that seems to show some promise too.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by Jidis

BTW- That RC-100 must be like the Holy Grail now. I think I may have even seen one in person back in the day at Washington Music.

Yeah it's nice to have the RC-100. You can mark your most used pages on the function keys and jump instantly to other functions. It also lets you use the DT-100 tablet with the 750/770, though I believe it is optimized for the S50. Using the DT-100 though the RC100 into the 770 when I tried it resulted in software slowdowns and poor tracking. I don't know if maybe it's a faulty DT100 or just slight incompatibility, even though it is possible to use them together.

The 750/770 will boot fine from a zip or compact flash using the built in scsi so there is not much reason to go for the HCX, although that is by far the best choice for the Atari ST.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by Jidis

****Gadzooks-----> Just saw that MU-1 mouse on a completed eBay for 70 bucks (no friggin way). Speaking of which, what exactly is a 750 worth in the US around now? Don't see any of them on any past or present eBays. -Thanks!

Didn't you just buy one? There's your answer. The trade for far less than they are worth, largely because it's a hassle to get a complete system and without mouse and monitor they are rather frustrating.

[Jidis]

Originally Posted by bluegreengold

Didn't you just buy one?

Yeah, but it was 65 dollars, which I imagine is on the low side.

Of course my Peavey DPM SP+ was free (I had to make the guy take some money for it), so I guess these old sampler prices all depend on who you get it from and why they have it.

Thanks again for the offer on the Zip. I'll let you know if I can't get mine working. Also have to figure out why SDisk only wants to do 800k floppies here. I figure that's not normal. May try a 98SE machine for the heck of it.

BTW- That 750 appears to have the full 18Megs with the daughterboard. Lucked out on that as I've got plenty of SIMMs, but that board probably sells for the price of a house now. I also noticed a lot of space in that area behind the floppy, but skimming the manual all I hear about is "external" SCSI. Was this thing not designed to be fitted with any internals?

George

PS- Damn you Silverfish on that mouse converter link (one more thing to do now).

I was actually skimming around that site and somehow didn't notice that. I'd love to have the PS2 one. I think I've even got those PICs here. If I can get one going, I may be able to help you out on one, but all my burner stuff is scattered around and dusty, so I'll need to see it happen first.

[Jidis]

Sorry to bring this back.

Does anybody with a 7xx know whether the floppy LED stays sort of dim while the unit is on? Mine does, then goes bright while it's reading or whatever. If it's a regular floppy interface, I may try to get another in there to see if that changes.

Also, on that internal HD thing. Seems that was one of the differences with the 750/770, and like I said, it looks like there's mounting space. I couldn't find any mention of anyone adding one to an S-750. Anyone heard of that or know how the 770 is rigged there?

Lastly, WTF did this "turbo mod" involve?? I think dlmorley has it in one. Anybody ever compare guts?

Thanks!

[dlmorley]

The turbo was a new motherboard I believe. It went back to Roland for it. Faster afterwards. Nothing else I noticed.
I have just got a 770 at a friends place. When I pick it up, I'll compare the two for HD and speed.
The 750 is just an amazing piece of gear. When I bought it before the turbo kit I compared timing on many samplers. It won hands down. Then the sound is just immense. Low end is wonderful. Solid machines.

[Preston135]

ai, you just need a arcade video card to convert it to vga, i've done it.

I dont think it works as a sequencer, the 750/70 software i have for it, does not have a sequencer. if there is a sequencer i believe it would be aftermaket s/w.

i think the only differance between the 50 and the 70 is an spdif.

[dlmorley]

The 770 has digi in out (spdif & optical), XLR analogue ins and the internal hard drive. The converters are also different according to some.

There is no sequencing software for the S-770 or S-750.

[Jidis]

Thanks Guys!

Dlmorley- Damn, I was wondering if it was just a swap of some socketed chip or something. If Roland themselves were doing it back when the machines were still current, I wonder if that would mean that there were newer ones which left the factory like that. Would the 760 have this upgraded processing? Also wonder how you can tell who has it inside if you've never used a non-turbo.

FWIW- I was in the 750 last night again. The boards in it all say "S-770". There's also quite a few chip and connector outlines/pads on the output board which are unpopulated. I may snap some pictures if I go back in.

Still wondering if there's a way to get internal SCSI happening there without too much hacking. It's a shame seeing all that wasted space, and I hate needing to have some clunky drive hanging off the back just for a few hundred megs. If you can see how the 770's done there, I'd love to know.

Thanks!

George

[Jidis]

Here's the mainboard. That's the only one that doesn't say "S-770", but I'm guessing maybe it's a less populated version of the 770 board.

Looks like that blank 50-pin header space down in the lower right must have been the internal connection. Would be interesting to know if that's all that is missing there (guess there would be a change in those terminator packs too). The holes in the pads are all nice and clean & empty.

George

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Jidis

Here's the mainboard. That's the only one that doesn't say "S-770", but I'm guessing maybe it's a less populated version of the 770 board.

Looks like that blank 50-pin header space down in the lower right must have been the internal connection. Would be interesting to know if that's all that is missing there (guess there would be a change in those terminator packs too). The holes in the pads are all nice and clean & empty.

George

I'll open mine up when I get a chance...

[Jidis]

No hurry at all Dlmorley!

Here's the others for comparison.

BTW- That is a regular PC floppy drive they use isn't it? I tried a couple old ones I had around here, and they sounded like they spun up, but the LEDs never lit and they didn't read the disk. No telling what their status was though (they weren't in good computers here). Just still wondering why mine keeps a faint light to it when it's not active.

George

[bluegreengold]

When it comes to musical instruments -- there is almost none that use 'just a regular pc floppy drive' I don't know the specs for the roland, but it's not unlikely that it is shugart spec. It may have pins switched, inverted 'wait signals' etc, most certainly it'll be set to drive ID 0 rather than 1. You can generally modify PC floppies to work in most music gear, but it can be tricky, especially with later drives that lack the ID select jumper.

I don't use the floppy on my 770, just the HD and sometimes Zip, but I'll take a look and see if the floppy lights up like you describe.

[Jidis]

Thanks bluegreengold,

Dag, I didn't even know those things had IDs. It looked familiar from the back, but I guess there could be some differences as you say.

Do you guys not like the 760 or something? - just wondering, seem to hear more about the other two. A Sound on Sound review I just read said it had "the exact same sound quality and filters as the 770", but it seems I've read otherwise somewhere too.

On that 750 vs. 770 thing- That's a shame we can't get the guy(s) in here that made it. They could probably tell us all about the board differences, that turbo mod and everything else. If that internal SCSI thing turned out to be nothing more than sticking a fifty pin header in that space, that'd be a pretty easy mod (just time consuming).

George