giving up on my Matrix 6

[blinky909]

even better news...

there is a SYSEX delay PER MESSAGE and PER BYTE. the BEST response is to set up a delay off 1000us PER BYTE and set PER MESSAGE to zero

You get fast acting parameter changes for most parameters, but not everything plays nice... VCF freq mod by Env seems to kill it, but no problem setting that from the front panel. Still digging about, will post more later...

[SWAN808]

ok so its about setting a delay in the controller parameters? So it doesnt overload too quickly with too much data? This is useful info...

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

ok so its about setting a delay in the controller parameters? So it doesnt overload too quickly with too much data? This is useful info...

Ive been messing with the PER MESSAGE and PER BYTE delay times to find the right mix. VCF cutoff and res are real time, very handy but other parameters still choke, mainly parameters with the envelopes.

[dariendaniel]

Blinky: tell us more.

Good job man. The fourm works again.

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by dariendaniel

Blinky: tell us more.

i've started a per parameter summary but it is obvious what works in real time and what chokes the processor - modulation.

each of the the DCO's frequency, waveshape and pulse width can be modified in real time, but adjusting the amount of frequency modulation by LFO1 causes the processor to choke.

likewise on the VCF, the cutoff frequency, resonance, and volume can be adjusted in real time, but adjusting the modulation amount by ENV1 or Pressure causes the processor to choke.

the envelopes exhibit this same pattern. real time adjusting the D A D S R parameters is not an issue, but adjusting the modulation by velocity chokes the processor.

i did not explore the LFO's or FM parameters nor did i look at the modulation matrix parameters. i suspect the modulation matrix will cause the processor to choke.

i was able to create some sounds i never would have gotten out of the synth with front panel or software editing, the instant feedback was great, but the parameters that can not provide this instant feedback really limit the power and depth of the synth for "in the moment" sound design.

in summary, the modulation parameters are just too much for the processor to handle while processing SYSEX data for those parameter values at the same time.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by blinky909

Ive been messing with the PER MESSAGE and PER BYTE delay times to find the right mix. VCF cutoff and res are real time, very handy but other parameters still choke, mainly parameters with the envelopes.

Nice! Now the question is what other than software and the 1600x gives you access to per byte / per message delay times.

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by bluegreengold

Nice! Now the question is what other than software and the 1600x gives you access to per byte / per message delay times.

i'm not sure what software will do that, as for hardware, apparently the Drehbank does. as much as this opens up the synth editing i don't think it's enough to use it in a creative moment. there is still a large amount of the architecture that won't provide the real time feedback that, for me, limits the usefulness of this synth over many other options.

i'm left with my conclusion of years ago, on paper the Matrix 6 is a great synth but in practice it's a PITA and better suited to the role of preset machine in the 1U format of the M1000. which is exactly how many use them.

[dariendaniel]

Originally Posted by blinky909

i'm not sure what software will do that, as for hardware, apparently the Drehbank does. as much as this opens up the synth editing i don't think it's enough to use it in a creative moment. there is still a large amount of the architecture that won't provide the real time feedback that, for me, limits the usefulness of this synth over many other options.

i'm left with my conclusion of years ago, on paper the Matrix 6 is a great synth but in practice it's a PITA and better suited to the role of preset machine in the 1U format of the M1000. which is exactly how many use them.

I dunno man, Im going to say that if you go about it in phases and then do minor creative tweaks on the fly... its a good creative box...

Like I said earlier Ive got two and recently went next level on programming...

that being said there is a big difference with my xpander but... its not a deal breaker... each old analog machine has a persona of its own and its up to us as a creative person to get the most pout of it...

some boxes are better suited for other needs... thats the reason there isnt one smoking gun.. you have to have a few.

[blinky909]

i gave up on the synth. i traded it last night. i have spent years stroking my beard and programming things, not actually using them to make music. 90% of the sounds i was making with it i can do faster on other synths, like the Nord Lead 2.

[soundsubs]

i've owned several m1000's and m6/m6r's over the years and came to the same conclusion: great synth, crippled by poor midi implementation. i first used mine with a JL Cooper FaderMaster which didnt seem to lock it up as much as more recent ones did.

has anyone ever tried to re-engineer the CPU processing the midi messages so that it can work? seems like this would be possible with the JX-3p hacks and Pro-One hacks and the JP6 Europa mod, etc.

might turn a virtually unedittable machine into a glory machine!

and what about the access programmer? did they figure out a way to slow the sysex?

[Don Edgar]

Originally Posted by soundsubs

has anyone ever tried to re-engineer the CPU processing the midi messages so that it can work? seems like this would be possible with the JX-3p hacks and Pro-One hacks and the JP6 Europa mod, etc.

I have thought that myself a lot of times. I just sent an e-mail to kiwitechnics asking if they ever considered such a thing and pointing to this thread. Maybe they know something.

[Don Edgar]

This is what he wrote back:

Hi Edgar

Due to constant requests I am borrowing a M6r soon to make a patch for it. All the split controls only work in a positive direction and there are some other errors in the midi but I will put in everything that works. It will not be 100% but it will be something.

If I do look at the Oberheims regarding an upgrade it will be some way off as I am fully committed for this year at least with my current projects.

Kind regards
Murray

[blinky909]

the problem with the M6 family is there are so many parameters that a simple knob box won't be able to access, and then there is the problem of the initial value. the "synth on a chip" and the state processing for that = great on paper, horrible for programming.

maybe in 5 years we'll have a new CPU. until then, i'm moving on.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by blinky909

the problem with the M6 family is there are so many parameters that a simple knob box won't be able to access, and then there is the problem of the initial value. the "synth on a chip" and the state processing for that = great on paper, horrible for programming.

maybe in 5 years we'll have a new CPU. until then, i'm moving on.

are you replacing it with something else?

Kiwitechnics did something pretty serious with the JX3p...really addressed its flaws. Not a half arsed attempt at all.

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

are you replacing it with something else?

i traded the M6R for a Kenton Pro2 - i only had a single channel MIDI->CV box and that was fine until i added the Pro-One to my setup.

[dariendaniel]

BLINKY


OH NO... NOBODY LEAVES OBERHEIM. WE ARE FORCED TO FIND YOU AND STRAP YOU TO AN OB-12 WHILE PLAYING "ROCK ME AMADEUS" IN BACKWARDS LOOP MODE UNTIL YOU DECISIONED YOUR WAY BACK INTO THE MATRIX.

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by dariendaniel

BLINKY


OH NO... NOBODY LEAVES OBERHEIM. WE ARE FORCED TO FIND YOU AND STRAP YOU TO AN OB-12 WHILE PLAYING "ROCK ME AMADEUS" IN BACKWARDS LOOP MODE UNTIL YOU DECISIONED YOUR WAY BACK INTO THE MATRIX.

i never really leave, i just ignore it for awhile. when i'm done ignoring it i'll buy another and then remember why i ignored it.

[stalker5000]

Thanks to you guys I just finished my BCR2000 preset for the Matrix 6 (using bc-convert and sysex librarian). As reported it all works well aside from the modulation parameters. LFO speed, track points, ramp, env dadsr...all smooth. I have a 20ms delay between sysex messages set on the BCR.

Still trying to find a way to work around the negative values problem. Messing around with .minmax values I stumbled on some weird things like an extra portamento mode called "FNORMA", and parameters going past their range (e.g. detune up to 127). If anyone is interested in having the sysex for the BCR preset let me know and I can send it.

[Liquid360]

Originally Posted by ahmo

Sounds like someone is itching for an Xpander!

You won't be disappointed... I never liked the Matrix-6. But I love the Xpander. Completely different sounding machines.

[thermos]

Originally Posted by stalker5000

Thanks to you guys I just finished my BCR2000 preset for the Matrix 6 (using bc-convert and sysex librarian). As reported it all works well aside from the modulation parameters. LFO speed, track points, ramp, env dadsr...all smooth. I have a 20ms delay between sysex messages set on the BCR.

Still trying to find a way to work around the negative values problem. Messing around with .minmax values I stumbled on some weird things like an extra portamento mode called "FNORMA", and parameters going past their range (e.g. detune up to 127). If anyone is interested in having the sysex for the BCR preset let me know and I can send it.

I'd love your matrix 6 preset for the BCR. Sounds like the most complete one out there.

[tyler477]

Originally Posted by thermos

I'd love your matrix 6 preset for the BCR. Sounds like the most complete one out there.

I'd love the BCR template also,
thanks

[dariendaniel]

Id like aM6r template for the Bitstream 3x!