Headphones particularly well suited for electronic kicks?

[Barfunkel]

I have a big problem. I'm forced to monitor via headphones most of the time.
I've learned to cope with it, except for one thing: My kickdrums sound like ass when I switch on the monitors. Something to do with low-frequency transients I suppose, as what sounds like a great, pounding kick on my current headphones (crappy DJ ones), turns into a miserable little POS on the speakers with WAY too much clicky attack and way too little actual bass.

So, does anyone have any recommendations for headphones that would translate kicks well?

I mostly make dubby techno stuff, so a big pounding kick is really important.

[raymondwave]

Sennheiser HD25-1. I make rough mixes with those and later with Mackie HR824's. It's not an easy task to nail an electronic kick with headphones, but these do the trick once in a while.

Experience helps too, when you've mixed 1000 kicks with headphones and realized they don't work with monitors, you won't mix them the same way again .

I know quite a few people who mix succesfully with these sennheisers.

[Sudad G]

Which monitors do you have and which headphone?

Me, I produce dance- and clubmusic as well - like you.

I use for monitoring the KRK VXT8 monitors and for headphone the AKG240DF and sometimes the SHURE SRH940. No differences between monitor and headphones.
I use a kickdrum that sounds bassey on SHURE SRH940 and very unspectacular on the AKG240DF.
Then I turn the monitors on and it sounds mostly great.

Try to use good kickdrum samples from the beginning. Don't tweak them to much.
You can find good kickdrum s on your favorite CD, Vinyl (just sample it) or on special sampling CD's ( e.g. Drum Sounds - Zenhiser )

Greetings
Sudad G

[Barfunkel]

Originally Posted by Sudad G

Which monitors do you have and which headphone?

Focal CMS65 monitors, which I can't use as much as I'd like to. Don't remember the headphones model, some cheap DJ phones.

Try to use good kickdrum samples from the beginning. Don't tweak them to much.
You can find good kickdrum s on your favorite CD, Vinyl (just sample it) or on special sampling CD's ( e.g. Drum Sounds - Zenhiser )

I don't use samples, I prefer synthesizing stuff. Using a sample cd would of course solve my problem, but I don't want to go there right now.

[raymondwave]

Whatever you do, do not get AKG240's for mixing bassy electronic stuff, I have them too and stopped using them the day I got Sennheisers. Good headphones, but you need to smash them to extreme levels to get any bass, and still you won't. Sennheiser HD25-1 are somewhat a benchmark for djs and a lot of other monitorin purposes, closed structure gives very punchy bass even at low volume. They are very good at blocking outside noise.

If you have (at any point) been comfortable producing anything on cheap headphones which you don't remember the brand even, you'll be in heaven with Sennheiser HD25's .

[Sudad G]

I don't use samples, I prefer synthesizing stuff. Using a sample cd would of course solve my problem, but I don't want to go there right now.

Well - now I understand your problem better. So you use "unprocessed" kicks. It is a big work to go from an unprocessed kick to a commercial kick, that you hear normally in techno or house productions. That's why I use 90% samples, because I want to concentrate my work to the song and not spending some hours for a kickdrum

Ok, but anyway, then you have to process it. So first step is to analyze your wished kick. Is it more a soft kick like TR808 character or harder like 909? To make a kick more powerfull you could add a saturation plugin (e.g. UAD Fatso etc.) or with a real analog mixing desk like I do. To make the kick more clear in the bass frequency range I would cut frequencies under 30Hz with a highpass filter. With a parametric eq you could boost frequencies around 100-120Hz a little bit, cut frequencies around 180-200Hz (with a high Q) and boost frequencies around 2-4 kHz. Then you get more these typically trance kicks etc. At the end you could add a small room, gated room or just ambience effect from a a professional reverb processor or reverb plugin. Then limit it with a Limiter like Waves L2 and cut the release with a gate if it's necessary. It sounds better then shorten the release of the kick with the envelope of your drumsynthesizer. It's another effect, because you get a better sustain and mor fundament for the kick. More "boom" effekt.

Hope that would help you a little bit.

Sudad G

[raymondwave]

Here's a rough mix I made this weekend completely with HD25's. I had a quick chance to check this with my Mackies yesterday and while it's not 100 % in there, I'd say the kick ended up surprisingly ok for a headphone mix. The kick is a synth kick which goes thru a lot of processing, so I wasn't really aware of how it would be from monitors.

http://soundcloud.com/raymondwave/african-runner

I'm quite sure this is a HD25 headphone mix too:

http://soundcloud.com/raymondwave/tranquil-dark

[Itsmorning]

Beyerdynamic dt770 has the nicest low end of all the headphones I've tried. sub is very present but not overdone (you actually feel vibration on ur ears, once you get calibrated to it sub mixing turns out better than any headphones I've used) and kicks translate perfectly 99% of the time. The only part of the spectrum i don't trust are the upper highs with these phones.

[raymondwave]

DT770's get a lot of good word. I've been tempted to try them out for a long time.

[Sudad G]

Whatever you do, do not get AKG240's for mixing bassy electronic stuff

It's true that the AKG240DF is not optimal for low end, but if the bass or the kick sounds on AKG more bassy and hifi like then it is too much for the club. With the SHURE SRH940 you have a better control for the bass frequencies. I like the AKG240DF for the midrange - to control whether the HiHats, Percussion etc. are loud enough for the kick - very important for house stuff.
For kick and bass I prefer SHURE SRH940 and of course good monitors like KRK or Genelec or also Mackie. And to have a look to a graphic analyzer is an obligation for me.
I used the Sennheisers in the past - the problem for me was, that every kick sounded great on them. Maybe I should try the HD25-1 and give it a chance

Another advice from me: Use sidechain compression with the kick on the playback. The kick sounds more powerfull even when the kick alone is less powerfull.

Sudad G

[raymondwave]

Yes, it's only that I couldn't feel the bass at all on AKG's, otherwise they are very good.

[artech909]

+1 to Sen HD25 mk1 (but you need to learn them a little for 100% perfect results)

[msl]

Kicks always sound different on monitors, but I like my ATH M50's they come pretty close and have lots of low end.

I suggest you sort out your kicks beforehand on your monitors and have them ready to go, then you can do the rest on phones later.



.

[Fred_Abstract]

+1

Ath m50 is good in the not super expensive headphone range.

[Alex Aliferis]

I've got a pair of Sony MDR-7509HDs which reproduce bass very well. So well in fact that I've often had to put a high-pass filter on my master out so as to prevent my brain from being vibrated into a quivering pile of mush due to expected lows.

[Steezy]

As two others mentioned, the ATH M50's are pretty good headphones, especially for the cost. That said, every time I start a song using headphones I always change the kick once I listen to it on my monitors.

[._.]

Originally Posted by Barfunkel

I have a big problem. I'm forced to monitor via headphones most of the time.
I've learned to cope with it, except for one thing: My kickdrums sound like ass when I switch on the monitors. Something to do with low-frequency transients I suppose, as what sounds like a great, pounding kick on my current headphones (crappy DJ ones), turns into a miserable little POS on the speakers with WAY too much clicky attack and way too little actual bass.

So, does anyone have any recommendations for headphones that would translate kicks well?

I mostly make dubby techno stuff, so a big pounding kick is really important.

I like Sennheiser HD 25's, they are very durable and long lasting. Sound is similar to the really high end Sennheisers, its not very fatiguing as opposed to many phones out there. No extra high freq extra presence.

Good bass, not too much and not too little, they sound very speakerish. But not subwooferish kinda.

Good isolation so you really hear what going on even when you play at low volume.

You can really crank the volume if you want, you can dj in these, its definitely the best or at least top 2-3 phones for dj-ing, I'd say they the best because they sound more neutral than all "dj-phones". They pack one of the biggest punches there is in a headphone.

The bad things are that they are expensive (well that depends on what you think is expensive I guess). When you first get them they feel very tight on the head and ears will hurt after like 1 hour but you get used to it after a week or so.

There are different pads for them so I guess you can tailor this to your need.

Technics DJ1200's are quite well built too but more for dj-ing than production.

Goodness/$ on the HD25's is the highest I have encountered.

If you want open phones that are more comfortable and on the cheap the Sennheiser 5xx series are quite good. The higher the number the better usually.

[fooddude]

Im looking for new HPs too...been using my bro's crappy, beatup, heavily used at full volumes (dj used), cheap Sony mdr-v6 dj headphones for the entire time. It's totally time for me to upgrade.

But, are the HD-25's really good for production/studio work and mixing-down too???? I always heard/read they were really good, but more on the dj side of opinions. HD-25 and the Sony 7509 have been sorta industry standard forever, but for djing.

I am really interested and thinking about buying the HD-25 for mixing down and production; mainly due to the size (it can double up as dj phones), price and good reviews. But, I am also on the fence about it, as I know HD-600/650 are out there too (which are lik, the bomb! and have high praise for mixing down/studio use). But, the downsides of the 600/650 is the price and the size (can't be doubled up as compact djing phones).

So...would love to hear more reviews on the HD-25's for studio work and mixing-down tracks. I think I may get the 25's instead of looking for used 600's

[._.]

Originally Posted by fooddude

Im looking for new HPs too...been using my bro's crappy, beatup, heavily used at full volumes (dj used), cheap Sony mdr-v6 dj headphones for the entire time. It's totally time for me to upgrade.

But, are the HD-25's really good for production/studio work and mixing-down too???? I always heard/read they were really good, but more on the dj side of opinions. HD-25 and the Sony 7509 have been sorta industry standard forever, but for djing.

I am really interested and thinking about buying the HD-25 for mixing down and production; mainly due to the size (it can double up as dj phones), price and good reviews. But, I am also on the fence about it, as I know HD-600/650 are out there too (which are lik, the bomb! and have high praise for mixing down/studio use). But, the downsides of the 600/650 is the price and the size (can't be doubled up as compact djing phones).

So...would love to hear more reviews on the HD-25's for studio work and mixing-down tracks. I think I may get the 25's instead of looking for used 600's

the real difference with the HD-25 and the high end Sennheisers are that they are closed back and that always feels more fatiguing in the long end, and for them to be soundproof they put high pressure on head.

Compared to around the ear big fluffy open ones, they are not very comfortable in the long run, until you get used to them then you won't notice it any way. The HD-25's sound amazingly similar to the best sennheisers to be honest.
And if you really need that isolation/spl capability open phones are not an alternative IMO.

Go to a store that has both the high end sennheisers and the HD-25's and compare them, the difference in sound (other than open/closed charateristics) is not very big.

Only you can deciede whats good for you, but do a shootout in a store, it tells you much more then we can.

But you will probably still need one open pair for extended sessions and a closed pair for other situations, like really banging loud stuff.

[Branmong]

Originally Posted by Steezy

As two others mentioned, the ATH M50's are pretty good headphones, especially for the cost. That said, every time I start a song using headphones I always change the kick once I listen to it on my monitors.

While I have these and love them, I'm not sure how suitable they are for the OP's question - the bass is very deceptive IMO.

I say no...

[Fred_Abstract]

Originally Posted by Branmong

While I have these and love them, I'm not sure how suitable they are for the OP's question - the bass is very deceptive IMO.

I say no...

strange the bass is one of the best qualities of this headphone , it translate great for me

[renderful]

I find my ATH-M50's to be a bit too bass heavy, as well. Great headphones nontheless. They translate really well to my front ported monitors, which are also quite bass heavy.

[Branmong]

Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract

strange the bass is one of the best qualities of this headphone , it translate great for me

I'm not saying the bass doesn't sound good - just saying it isn't accurate. Everyone hears headphones differently though, so just my opinion.

[Fred_Abstract]

Originally Posted by Branmong

I'm not saying the bass doesn't sound good - just saying it isn't accurate. Everyone hears headphones differently though, so just my opinion.

yes agree it s not flat, there is a bump, its hyped...but what matter is how it translate, it don't work for you?

[yuki2012]

Yeah,try the Sennheiser HD25's .

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Branmong

....Everyone hears headphones differently though, ....

this!

I tried other headphones and like the AKG line 240 etc. (can't be bothered with exact numbers atm sorry)
HD-25 here too (I think I already posted this - oh well..). they're the older HD-25-13 with 600 Ohm impedance (slightly different from the HD-25-1 (70 Ohm).
as always a good headphone amp does WONDERS for the sound.

[Daniel_Che]

Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, look no more. they will never lie to you

[offki]

Make them through the monitors instead? Crazy idea I know. Someone stop me, before I do it again.

*runs off gibbering*

[Barfunkel]

Originally Posted by offki

Make them through the monitors instead? Crazy idea I know.

If it only were possible all the time. But I have neighbors and my girlfriend to think about. It's rare that I'm home alone, so I have to make music with headphones. I probably aren't the only one, it's pretty common.

I also have no room treatment, which makes judging the bass a bit difficult, even when I can play music with my monitors. Again, the girlfriend is not so keen about the idea of having stacks of wool all over the living room.

If I only had the money for a proper studio room, but rents are crazy high in Finland.

[offki]

Originally Posted by Barfunkel

If it only were possible all the time. But I have neighbors and my girlfriend to think about. It's rare that I'm home alone, so I have to make music with headphones. I probably aren't the only one, it's pretty common.

I also have no room treatment, which makes judging the bass a bit difficult, even when I can play music with my monitors. Again, the girlfriend is not so keen about the idea of having stacks of wool all over the living room.

If I only had the money for a proper studio room, but rents are crazy high in Finland.

Fair enough that makes sense, you don't need to have the monitors right up though, I got a pai of VXT6's a couple of weeks back and I can mix quieter than ever and still get good translation, couldn't be happier with them. I used to have a similar situation, but I killed my gf and flatmates, it was more affordable than room treatment.

I did have a similar situation and I just decided in my wisdom that people would just have to suffer me testing kick drums for about a minute or two.

I really don't like previewing elements on headphones, checking mixes and finished tunes, that's all I like to use them for. I would advise against it but that's just my opinion.