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Does Anyone Regret Buying The Tempest?
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#61
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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i also haven't been convinced by any demonstration i've seen. i also think that i can't come to a conclusion on the tempest until i play with one in person. i would love to hear some direct-in (non video microphone) recordings of just a simple, clean, punchy house beat even. i'm really interested in hearing the sound quality of this thing. uncompressed and compressed. it's very expensive! so there should be some fantastic demonstrations!

hell the mini brute isn't even out yet but there are some very promising demos of it already.
#62
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarlywarly View Post
The Youtube demos are hardly amazing, but some of them do show important functions and possibilities, but not all. Nobody mentions that it's also a fully-capable polysynth.
AFAIK They only got the synth functionality fully working in the last update so it's not been there very long and most people seem to do rhythmic / beat based videos.

I've played around with the synth capabilities a bit and it's an amazingly versatile machine. The voices are more versatile than the Prophet'08. There are also the digital waves which can go from very pure digital down to crunchy grit - and that's before you use distortion.

You do have to play with it a bit though and dig through the sound parameters. Filter feedback and filter envelope amount and all the other filter controls have an effect the sound - it's not just turning the cutoff knob.

Quote:
If you want to sound like a 909, get a 909 or use samples. Life's too short.
Exactly.


This is all tempest:

http://soundcloud.com/mefistophelees/the-model-kraftwerk-cover
#63
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masaski View Post

Even next to my other DSI gear, the tempest sounds, yes, cheap...

A lot of users are in denial, I sort of am too. I so desperately want it to sound good, but my gut tells me otherwise...
This is what I'm afraid of... I'll need to go out to the shop spend an hour with it then decide. However I think I'm around 70% sure I wont get one.

Masaki, are you a bit of a veteran when it comes to producing? Do you feel confident you can explore the capabilities of this synth yourself? Your words will just have more weight if this is the case, as just from the YouTube videos, I agree with you. But I still need to go to the store, sit down with one for an hour and then decide.

What do you like about it? Is it quick to program and come up with inspiring and usable loops? Or is it more of a time consuming event to program each sound individually and create a sequence? I don't nessecarily want a machine that I can sit down in five minutes create stuff, although that's great I might be missing out on the fun. But I dont want a complicated beast, that lacks inspiration either, I'm fairly decent at programming an I think I could handle the tempest, but if it's one of those overly complicated affairs, I'm not interested as you'll just spend your time fiddling and tweaking and in the end, not making music!

I agree that people may be in denial, I probably would to having spent so much on something that to me personally wouldn't offer a great deal. As I said before, I'm not a fan of its sound enough to use it as a synth so to say, but for percussive sounds and rhythmic ideas it may pose a good option for me to sound a little different from say for example a vengeance loop pack.
#64
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomood
I had an idea in my head that I would be able to create really inspiring, and different loops to everyone else using software and loop packs...maybe I was wrong...
Whether you're wrong or right (probably wrong, just given the history of everything), so many people are buying the Tempest that whatever "unique" sound you may be able to find in it has by the time of this writing already been found by a thousand other people.

Like everyone says, just a tool (or ingredient, or instrument, or metal box with electronic sound-generating components, or whatever you want to call it). Unfortunately, we still don't yet quite have the magic instant-genius box.
#65
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctrlshft View Post
moog sp tri wave with 4-pole filter. see: sine wave.
man, post a spectrum not a waveform

that waveform might still contain harmonics, which you HEAR.

That four pole filter is not enough to get a clean sine wave.
#66
9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarlywarly View Post
You are obviously taking the piss.
think before type.
#67
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomood View Post
This is what I'm afraid of... I'll need to go out to the shop spend an hour with it then decide. However I think I'm around 70% sure I wont get one.

Masaki, are you a bit of a veteran when it comes to producing? Do you feel confident you can explore the capabilities of this synth yourself? Your words will just have more weight if this is the case, as just from the YouTube videos, I agree with you. But I still need to go to the store, sit down with one for an hour and then decide.

I've spent a fair few years at the crease yes, and I'm totally confident I know my way around this unit. Go spend some time with one. Don't judge the sound on 64k YouTube vids.

What do you like about it? Is it quick to program and come up with inspiring and usable loops? Or is it more of a time consuming event to program each sound individually and create a sequence? I don't nessecarily want a machine that I can sit down in five minutes create stuff, although that's great I might be missing out on the fun. But I dont want a complicated beast, that lacks inspiration either, I'm fairly decent at programming an I think I could handle the tempest, but if it's one of those overly complicated affairs, I'm not interested as you'll just spend your time fiddling and tweaking and in the end, not making music!

There are loads of cool functions and the unit is very intuitive and to me the success of this machine lies therein. The actual work-flow is potentially a game changer for a groovebox/drum machine. If you can get the machine to sound great, then it would be endlessly usable. Discarding the presets, it takes time to get your sounds blending correctly - there is no quick fix. You can't really take an osc on it's individual merit - you have to try and see the bigger picture with the four blended. Taken on their own, there's a naivety about the analog oscs that some people may like, but the jury is still out for me. They just don't sound that solid but that's my personal opinion.

I agree that people may be in denial, I probably would to having spent so much on something that to me personally wouldn't offer a great deal. As I said before, I'm not a fan of its sound enough to use it as a synth so to say, but for percussive sounds and rhythmic ideas it may pose a good option for me to sound a little different from say for example a vengeance loop pack.

This machine excels in strange klanking percussion and can give you 'different' in abundance. The sound isn't very subtle and mostly pretty harsh BUT go and try it out. The analog ocs's are quite limited IMO and there's not enough flexibility on the sample ocs i.e the ability to shorten/lengthen the sample just to use the attack/bite. It would be nice to use an aux envelope just for that reason, but you can't exclude it from the main amp envelope. A work around would be use that sound on a different pad and blend the two but I like to work a sound at a time...

In short, it certainly gives you some strange out of the box options, but you're going to need a very nice compressor (the on-board one is meh) and some warmth to tame the very aggressive/bright nature of the output. If you're happy with the digital oscs taking centre stage and just using it as a preset drum machine, then you may have more luck.

I was totally going to dump it a couple of weeks ago (it was packed up ready to go) and still might, but I'm going persevere with it and try to find some way of integrating it into my set-up. As I said before, I hate to be beaten. I'm hoping that deep inside is the machine I thought I'd bought, and I'm just having trouble finding it. Things like not being able to transmit CC's are excluding it from serious use at the moment and that's proving quite exasperating.

Not a hater, just being honest - with myself more than anything
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#68
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
and how? Dont say using a lowpass filter. You will be never able to suppress the harmonics sufficiently in practise.

You need a real sine wave oscillator!
Tons of synths don't have sin wave oscillators. I think the difference that you would have from low pass filtering a triangle with lots of resonance or just a self oscillating filter would be negligible. In practice very few if anyone will hear the difference.

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#69
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masaski View Post
I was totally going to dump it a couple of weeks ago (it was packed up ready to go) and still might, but I'm going persevere with it and try to find some way of integrating it into my set-up. As I said before, I hate to be beaten. I'm hoping that deep inside is the machine I thought I'd bought, and I'm just having trouble finding it. Things like not being able to transmit CC's are excluding it from serious use at the moment and that's proving quite exasperating.

Not a hater, just being honest - with myself more than anything
A great and honest reply. I don't really know what more to say apart from wishing you the best of luck with your endeavors in incorporating it into your music.

I have some interesting gear that I would run it through, including a thermionic culture vulture, which would be my first choice to tame the brightness/raspy nature your talking about, and a couple of excellent compressors, including my much loved, al.so Dynax 2 and a SSL g series compressor. Don't really know about the G series, although it's hard to make anything sound bad through that piece, but the Dynax would do wonders I believe to shape/beef up the sound from it's output... unfortunately if I test this device, putting it through the CV and the Dynax wont be possible, so I wont really get to hear what it will sound like through both.. Although I guess I can get somewhat an idea.

I'd be interested to know what style of music you are producing mostly.

Take care mate.
#70
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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hey

we should not discuss here too technical stuff,
electronic dance producers take too many drugs.
#71
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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I'm sensing an ongoing theme to your posts HomeProducer...
#72
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomood View Post
I have some interesting gear that I would run it through, including a thermionic culture vulture, which would be my first choice to tame the brightness/raspy nature your talking about, and a couple of excellent compressors

The Prophet'08 is known for being a "brassy" synth which at first seems impossible to get rid of but you can get rid of it with the filter controls. Same for the Tempest - there are a number of controls that control the filter, filter envelope amount and keyboard tracking also impact the brightness. Filter feedback can add extra depth (IIRC feedback is only on the left so the panning also impacts this). Filter modulation by oscillator adds a more raspy character.

You can get a completely different, deeper sound messing with all these controls.
#73
9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chembros View Post
I'm sensing an ongoing theme to your posts HomeProducer...
hahahahaha
#74
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chembros View Post
I'm sensing an ongoing theme to your posts HomeProducer...
ufff if my English was that good to understand what you mean ... sorry. I am one of those half-analphabets.
#75
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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I havent made anykicks that are blowing heads off yet but i keep improving on my efforts. The envs are key to getting the tick, thud, and boom right as i can tell so far. Also the filter seems to have some sweet spots that really improve things.
I will admit I am a lil disappointed how thin the 909/808ish samples on here sound but after layering and tweaking (on the tempest) it sounds a lot better. Then my budget compressors and mackie eq are making it bang much harder.
The tempest's potential hasnt been fully realized yet i suspect.
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#76
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
ufff if my English was that good to understand what you mean ... sorry. I am one of those half-analphabets.
Dude I understand you may be learning English, but next time try and contribute something to the thread by commenting with something useful or asking a question. I don't mean to be rude or harsh but I don't see the point, your not giving anything by just posting random stuff, it potentially ruins the the thread and makes it harder for people such as myself to learn useful information. I'm not being a thread hitler or anything, I just don't see the point.
#77
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomood View Post
Dude I understand you may be learning English, but next time try and contribute something to the thread by commenting with something useful or asking a question. I don't mean to be rude or harsh but I don't see the point, your not giving anything by just posting random stuff, it potentially ruins the the thread and makes it harder for people such as myself to learn useful information. I'm not being a thread hitler or anything, I just don't see the point.
Excellent point. So what have learned from this thread so far? Just curious.
#78
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
Excellent point. So what have learned from this thread so far? Just curious.
#79
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomood View Post
yeah dude you dont wanna be the thread hitler and I dont wanna be the thread goebbels. So carry on without me.

maybe once you guys can make a copmpetition who creates the nicest sine wave on the tempest
#80
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
  #80
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I wouldn't go anywhere near as far as hating it.

I really love mucking about on it. Sadly that's my main problem. So many people want it to be lots of things it isn't (portable external synth controller / sample play back machine, etc.) before its even able to be a useful grown up drum machine; No playlist or ability to change beat (pattern) via midi. So a drum machine you can only play live. No export of control cc's so it cannot be controlled via my daw or external sequencer. Great if you want to play one pattern all day when you are playing other instruments or great if you are a solo tempest player but to me not much more than fun.

Hopefully it will be right in the end, but it seems that I have different priorities from most of the user base and the designer.
#81
9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UroWho View Post
So a drum machine you can only play live. No export of control cc's so it cannot be controlled via my daw or external sequencer. Great if you want to play one pattern all day when you are playing other instruments or great if you are a solo tempest player but to me not much more than fun.
uh, but the whole point of it is to play it live, it's quite possibly the funnest most creative drum machine i've ever played and i am quite a DM fetishist (808,909,707,MDUW,MPC...)

if you wanna control everything with your DAW then you might as well just load a plugin like Geist or maybe a hybrid solution like Maschine..

i don't mean to sound smart but i really think people are missing the whole point of something like tempest... it's really a modern version of the LinnDrum, MPC sequencers, Roland TRs... the internal clock is super duper tight, the swing quantize is superb, the beat fx/sliders are incredibly fun, the analog pathway sounds fat...you've got a 6 voice analog poly synth, 4 osc per voice, hundreds of samples including classic drum machines, a lot of controls, OLED display, WOOD....lol..really thats quite a lot already for a drum machine!!!

of course its still missing crucial features, and i'm a bit skeptical on MIDI out port capabilities... but there also is a lot enhancements yet to come, and even in its present state its a no brainer if you can afford it. i will even admit i was skeptical myself before trying it, but within 30 minutes of proper use it just all came together and i knew i had to own one...
#82
9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomood View Post
I'd be interested to know what style of music you are producing mostly.

Take care mate.
I make dub disco/italo/house with some European pop thrown in there...I used to make some dubby techno but it's not where I'm at moment...

Dub, dub, dub...
#83
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masaski View Post
Even next to my other DSI gear, the tempest sounds, yes, cheap...

A lot of users are in denial, I sort of am too. I so desperately want it to sound good, but my gut tells me otherwise...
Seriously?
How does it compare to the Tetra sound? I've got a Tetra and I love the sound of that (with a few exceptions). Hopefully it's at least that good?

I am picky about sound so this is a potential worry. I haven't purchased yet but on paper this thing looks like a sound designer's dream and the interface/workflow looks dreamy too. But if the sound quality is sub par that's an issue.
#84
9th February 2012
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sound is a subjective thing... some people, actually quite a bit here dislike the DSi sound for whatever reason.. i personally LOVE it.. i must say though that the presets on Tempest are amongst the worst i've ever heard, quite insane really once you realize the potential it really has inside, but again some might just not gel with the sound its a personal thing...
#85
9th February 2012
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re live playing...

if you have 1 pattern going on the tempest, and you switch to the next...did the changes in pattern 1 get saved? similar to a 606 for example? or is it gone, similar to the electribes boxes if you don't stop and save before switching

i dig it when you can just move to the next pattern and the previous one retains all changes made to it, makes for fun jamming
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#86
9th February 2012
Old 9th February 2012
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Well honestly it works differently than you would expect. In a better way.

You have a first pattern that you cand tweak globally the sounds (pitch filter envelope etc) in real time in beat mode.
After you reach a nice variation (soundwise) of that pattern you can then copy that pattern really quick with a nice shortcut.

Copying patterns is really easy. IMO this is the best implementaion I've ever seen.

This is one of the strong points of the Tempest.

For sequence pattern changes you can easily copy 2 identical patterns so you can play around with one of them. It takes under a second to copy paste patterns so there s no excuse not to be careful of overwriting it.
#87
9th February 2012
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can that be done live while it is still running/playing the pattern? without interruption?

*downloads manual* lol shoulda' done this already doh!
#88
9th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSK View Post
Copying patterns is really easy. IMO this is the best implementaion I've ever seen.

This is one of the strong points of the Tempest.
Huge +1 here for that...
#89
10th February 2012
Old 10th February 2012
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Just had a 3 hour session on the Tempest and forgive me if I'm blunt (I'm a little bit drunk here) but if you don't dig what the tempest is capable of I can only think one of the following.

1. You wish to make clich├ęd music and are uninterested in original and creative ways of doing beats.

2. You haven't understood how the tempest works and really don't understand how to synthesise what you are after in terms of sounds. Or perhaps you are the kind of person who has only ever worked by finding a preset you like and tweaking it (slightly) to taste.

3. You have no talent of any kind, please stop trying to make music now. Go do something more productive instead. Learn medicine or crochet perhaps?
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#90
10th February 2012
Old 10th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarlywarly View Post
Thanks Yes, that's true. But could be so much better. Hope they change it.



It's my only DSI piece - I was put off by the crappy build quality of their previous gear. A few mis-angled buttons, but overall nothing wobbly and feels very solid.
Godamnit I'm going to buy one anyways but FFs fix the wobbly button looking crap dsi! Super frustrating to look at all day
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