Analog / Value gear?

[Eric J]

So I'm always coming across these types of articlees that love to talk about adding "Analog" and "Valve" gear to "warm" up your sounds.

Analogue Warmth

and

Warming Up your Mixes

So if your a primarily ITB producer looking to add some of this "analog" and valve" warmth to your sounds, how can you practically accomplish that without shelling out 5 figures for an console?

[Meow]

Couldn't you just use a preamp or any other kind of thing that uses valves? (which are tubes, right?)

That would be much less than a console for sure!!

Maybe also you could try some kind of similar thing in whatever DAW you use or maybe a third party plugin or something? When I had Ableton I would use the Saturator effect for things like now and in Reason I use either Scream 4 or Pulveriser or the Echo. I do like them more than the Ableton one for these kinds of things, but I bet there is a third party one that is probably even better than the Reason ones!!

[Oli]

Try using ITB solutions first. There are many plugs to emulate analogue outboard processors.

If that is not good enough for you, then you could try running audio through actual analogue outboard, such as DI/preamp/distortion/compressor. You wouldn't need a console to do this. If you wanted to process things live, then you may want multiple IO on your audio interface.

What kind of music are you doing? IMO, some modern genres don't really require analogue warmth at all.

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by Oli

Try using ITB solutions first. There are many plugs to emulate analogue outboard processors.

Yeah, but which ones? I do use the Ableton Live Overdrive and Dynamic Tube plugs, and they are OK. I've tried a couple of 3rd party ones as well, (TAL, PSP). They're not bad, but I want to see what else works. Too many of these articles talk about these things that analog valve gears gets you that plugins simply can't match.

Originally Posted by Oli

If that is not good enough for you, then you could try running audio through actual analogue outboard, such as DI/preamp/distortion/compressor. You wouldn't need a console to do this. If you wanted to process things live, then you may want multiple IO on your audio interface.

I've done a bit of processing of individual sounds through an ART VLA compressor with Telefunken (?) tubes. It's not bad, but I think it could be better. It's doesn't exactly "cook" the sounds when you try to overdrive the outputs.

The console thing was just an example. I also see things like the Tube Tech gear, but its like 4K for a stereo compressor! I was hoping to get something a bit less expensive, but I also realize that you may not get anything worthwhile for less than that.

Originally Posted by Oli

What kind of music are you doing? IMO, some modern genres don't really require analogue warmth at all.

I've been making a lot of tech and progressive house, but I'm trying to inject a bit of originality into my sound by trying different things. I know a lot of the bigger modern house producers are using valve gear for outside processing, so I figured, why not try it myself?

[Beany]

Slate Digitals VCC, Waves Kramer Master Tape & the Softube EQs and Compressors are my faves for ITB analogue-mojo.

Or try Nebula3 (if your PC can handle it) or the great free ones at Variety of Sound.

[judith priest]

Before I had a real audio interface for my computer I used to record straight to cassette tape. I still love the sound of those recordings, and I'm skeptical about capturing that kind of sound with plugins.

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by Eric J

how can you practically accomplish that without shelling out 5 figures for an console?

i shelled out $600.00 for a 24 channel analog board.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by Eric J

So I'm always coming across these types of articlees that love to talk about adding "Analog" and "Valve" gear to "warm" up your sounds.

Analogue Warmth

and

Warming Up your Mixes

So if your a primarily ITB producer looking to add some of this "analog" and valve" warmth to your sounds, how can you practically accomplish that without shelling out 5 figures for an console?

ther is some vintage pre amps that use transoistors that sound more valve than any modern valve equipment..

telefunken 276 for example... as naked modules they are still pretty cheap.. under 200.- but tendency rising.

so when you can DIY ist you can build a stereo bread box for under 500.- and get something that is doing a very fine type of warming.. its like a better version of a fatso without compression..

[audioblue]

I picked up a new TLA Fatrack for a great price, I get 10 in's, 2 EQ's and a number of routing options. Currently it sits in between my UFX and a couple of digital synths/drum machines. I occasionally buss part, or all, of my stereo mix to the 2 channels with EQ for a little flavour.
Some people have had issues, so if inclined, I'd check the unit before purchase. Pots, connectors, switches...
All in all I great unit with a lot of flexibility when used correctly and damn cheap compared with other, similar options.
That said, there really are some good plugs available, Sound Toys make a lovely desk/distortion emulation(Decapitator), I'd highly recommend having a listen.

[audslu]

That warmth thing and how to get some of this.... everbody is selling warmth and nobody seems to really have enough! No particular piece of gear alone can do this. It's how you mix and how you use your gear or sw.

For saturation we have plenty of plugins today (i use my uad plugs) and outboard there re things like portico 5042 and many others. For mellow-colourful tone, i don't know how else to say it, you have fatso (tranny circuit), the germanium comps and pres, la2a, drawmer 1968, bla bla bla. It depends what you 're looking for and your how much you re willing to spend. Still all these can sound subtle, some mixing skills are required too.

[judith priest]

Originally Posted by audslu

That warmth thing and how to get some of this.... everbody is selling warmth and nobody seems to really have enough!

lol, this is so true!

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by blinky909

i shelled out $600.00 for a 24 channel analog board.

Mackie?

Originally Posted by audioblue

I picked up a new TLA Fatrack for a great price, I get 10 in's, 2 EQ's and a number of routing options. Currently it sits in between my UFX and a couple of digital synths/drum machines. I occasionally buss part, or all, of my stereo mix to the 2 channels with EQ for a little flavour.
Some people have had issues, so if inclined, I'd check the unit before purchase. Pots, connectors, switches...
All in all I great unit with a lot of flexibility when used correctly and damn cheap compared with other, similar options.
That said, there really are some good plugs available, Sound Toys make a lovely desk/distortion emulation(Decapitator), I'd highly recommend having a listen.

Definitely been interested in a Fat Track for some time now, although I thought they were discontinued. Seems retailers like Front End still have them for sale new.

[Barfunkel]

Originally Posted by Eric J

I've been making a lot of tech and progressive house, but I'm trying to inject a bit of originality into my sound by trying different things. I know a lot of the bigger modern house producers are using valve gear for outside processing, so I figured, why not try it myself?

I don't think those genres really need analog/valve warmth. Nothing's stopping you from experimenting of course, just don't expect miracles, even if you drop 2k on a Culture Vulture or somesuch device.

[rolandjuno6]

I sometimes plug my synthesizers and drum machines into tube guitar amplifiers and record the amplifier with a microphone.

[djanthonyw]

Nebula all the way. Send me some audio and I'll run it through for you.

[soliceseven]

I use a Vintech 1272 to run my hard (analog or digital) and soft synths (sometimes the drum or mix bus) though and I totally love the vibe. I also sometimes us my LA610 and ART PRO VLA.

[SWAN808]

Nebula with Pre Amp Colour suite...and Culture Vulture...for low $$$...I was just mixing a soft synth into the FATSO tranny preset into Culture Vulture which gave a bit of warmth, bass and drive to the signal...

But yeah - get yourself an old desk and mix thru it with a compressor on the master (1968 which I have is a good choice)...(Blink has a Soundtracs Topaz if I remember correctly....)...but any old Allen Heath / Soundtracs / Soundcraft will do the job...

Empirical Labs fatso is another option...the real hardware...has an actual 'warmth' process...

[Ossicle]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Nebula with Pre Amp Colour suite...and Culture Vulture...for low $$$...I was just mixing a soft synth into the FATSO tranny preset into Culture Vulture which gave a bit of warmth, bass and drive to the signal...

But yeah - get yourself an old desk and mix thru it with a compressor on the master (1968 which I have is a good choice)...(Blink has a Soundtracs Topaz if I remember correctly....)...but any old Allen Heath / Soundtracs / Soundcraft will do the job...
.

Interesting, you seem to own both a 1968 and a Culture Vulture. I've been trying to decide between these two for 'warming' my drum buss (the CV would then go to my RNC or Stillwell Rocket). I know they are different beasts and cover a lot of different ground. But I'd be interested to know how you would compare them, in particular, what they do to kick drums.

Lots of nice options for cheap vintage analogue mixers. Although many of them are more for 'dirt' than 'warmth'. Like my Sony MX-P21. I usually run the drum tracks through it.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Ossicle

Interesting, you seem to own both a 1968 and a Culture Vulture. I've been trying to decide between these two for 'warming' my drum buss (the CV would then go to my RNC or Stillwell Rocket). I know they are different beasts and cover a lot of different ground. But I'd be interested to know how you would compare them, in particular, what they do to kick drums.

Lots of nice options for cheap vintage analogue mixers. Although many of them are more for 'dirt' than 'warmth'. Like my Sony MX-P21. I usually run the drum tracks through it.

Im using the Transcending Music Culture Vulture preset in Nebula...

CV would prob do a better overall job at warming than a 1968...but you might want to look at a second hand FATSO...

1968 is cool I like it a lot - but its colour is subtle...

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by Eric J

Mackie?

even better, Soundtracs Topaz (Miami Vice). has a great sound and better EQ's. i found the Mackie sound to be mushy and for 909 music, that mushy is hard to overcome without tons of EQ. the Soundtracs has a certain crispness that with a little EQ on the kick really makes it punch. and the first time i played my JD-800 through it, it was like a bought a brand new synth. amazingly clear and crisp.

[Bullseye]

I find that adding little bits of distortion to certain instruments along the way also helps in the long run....

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by Barfunkel

I don't think those genres really need analog/valve warmth. Nothing's stopping you from experimenting of course, just don't expect miracles, even if you drop 2k on a Culture Vulture or somesuch device.

Yeah, I'd disagree on those genres needing warmth. I see loads of those producers putting things through valve and analog gear. Olav Basoski, Luis Junior, the aforementioned Maceo Plex, and loads others. I've seen all of them on interviews and videos and such talk about putting their stuff through analog gear of one sort or another at some point. I know it isn't going to work miracles, but I'm not expecting that really. I've been around the block a few times, so I'm just trying to add something different to my setup.

Originally Posted by soliceseven

I use a Vintech 1272 to run my hard (analog or digital) and soft synths (sometimes the drum or mix bus) though and I totally love the vibe. I also sometimes us my LA610 and ART PRO VLA.

Nice, I'll look into that.

Originally Posted by djanthonyw

Nebula all the way. Send me some audio and I'll run it through for you.

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Nebula with Pre Amp Colour suite...and Culture Vulture...for low $$$...I was just mixing a soft synth into the FATSO tranny preset into Culture Vulture which gave a bit of warmth, bass and drive to the signal...

The Nebula thing looks cool, but it looks like it's Windows only? Is that right? The Culture Vulture has been on my list as well, I heard that at a friends studio and liked what I heard.

Originally Posted by SWAN808

But yeah - get yourself an old desk and mix thru it with a compressor on the master (1968 which I have is a good choice)...(Blink has a Soundtracs Topaz if I remember correctly....)...but any old Allen Heath / Soundtracs / Soundcraft will do the job...

Empirical Labs fatso is another option...the real hardware...has an actual 'warmth' process...

Good idea.

Originally Posted by blinky909

even better, Soundtracs Topaz (Miami Vice). has a great sound and better EQ's. i found the Mackie sound to be mushy and for 909 music, that mushy is hard to overcome without tons of EQ. the Soundtracs has a certain crispness that with a little EQ on the kick really makes it punch. and the first time i played my JD-800 through it, it was like a bought a brand new synth. amazingly clear and crisp.

Nice.

Originally Posted by Bullseye

I find that adding little bits of distortion to certain instruments along the way also helps in the long run....

Definitely.

Great suggestions guys really appreciate it.

[XAXAU]

UA 6176, awesome tube preamp and the best compressor ever made. Killer for the mixbus too, just bounce L/R or M/S and process.

[Meow]

Where can we hear some of your current songs? Maybe you don't actually need anything at all and are tricking yourself!

You never know!

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by Meow

Where can we hear some of your current songs? Maybe you don't actually need anything at all and are tricking yourself!

You never know!

Originals and remixes by Mario and Eric J on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

That the most recent stuff I have posted, but most of its over a year old. The tracks marked with PREVIEW are the newest ones.

However, that being said, all that stuff was done in Logic, and I've recently switched to Ableton Live. I have not posted anything finished yet with Ableton, but I should have a couple of tracks done here in the next few weeks. The stuff done in Live is significantly better than the stuff I have posted on SoundCloud, IMO.

[audslu]

Originally Posted by soliceseven

I use a Vintech 1272 to run my hard (analog or digital) and soft synths (sometimes the drum or mix bus) though and I totally love the vibe. I also sometimes us my LA610 and ART PRO VLA.

Nice choice of gear there, i like the vintech 1272 and la610.

@op I listened to: Badhands - Ladybirds (mario & eric j mix) you can say is too clean sounding, a little saturation or distortion on individual tracks can help spice things up.

edit: the overall mix is very nice

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by audslu

I listened to: Badhands - Ladybirds (mario & eric j mix) you can say is too clean sounding, a little saturation or distortion on individual tracks can help spice things up.

Exactly my thoughts. My sound has been way too clinical sounding in the past.

Originally Posted by audslu

edit: the overall mix is very nice

Thanks, you are very kind

Originally Posted by XAXAU

UA 6176, awesome tube preamp and the best compressor ever made. Killer for the mixbus too, just bounce L/R or M/S and process.

I'm starting to lean this way. Either LA-610 or 6176. I mean I think I'd rather have a quality mono piece rather than a mediocre stereo one. I can run the important pieces through that (kick, bass, snare, etc).

[Meow]

I just listened to the same track "Badlands" and I thought the mix was great as well!

I don't think you need anything! I think you can use exactly what you have! Like what the gentleman above me said perhaps some things could use just a tiny bit more dirt but I doubt you have to buy anything to pull it off!

Music can explain so much more than words when it comes to, well, music.

I know you aren't asking for life lessons or anything and I'm probably super unqualified to give them anyway (lol) but that's why I asked to listen to begin with! I think you should just have more confidence in YOU and don't let your brain try to play on any little bit of self-doubt and tell you "oh you are going to need X to do Y". You should say "shut up brain! I don't care what anyone else used for this or that because I know *I* can do it with what I have!"

Now of course that might be a little bit of an exaggeration cause as my brother says even with all the talent in the world you will still need a certain level of functionality from your tools otherwise you just end up fighting yourself, but in today's world it looks to me like that level of functionality is pretty darn easily attained and it sounds like you're already there and then some!

Be confident! You deserve it! You have done great work! Just don't let it go too far because arrogance is disgusting and unlike confidence will only hinder you!

My dad used to say "Ego will make the wisest of men do the dumbest of things while confidence will turn the dumbest of things into the wisest decisions"

To be honest I'm still not exactly sure what that means but geez he used to say it a lot LOL

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by Meow

I just listened to the same track "Badlands" and I thought the mix was great as well!

I don't think you need anything! I think you can use exactly what you have! Like what the gentleman above me said perhaps some things could use just a tiny bit more dirt but I doubt you have to buy anything to pull it off!

Music can explain so much more than words when it comes to, well, music.

I know you aren't asking for life lessons or anything and I'm probably super unqualified to give them anyway (lol) but that's why I asked to listen to begin with! I think you should just have more confidence in YOU and don't let your brain try to play on any little bit of self-doubt and tell you "oh you are going to need X to do Y". You should say "shut up brain! I don't care what anyone else used for this or that because I know *I* can do it with what I have!"

Now of course that might be a little bit of an exaggeration cause as my brother says even with all the talent in the world you will still need a certain level of functionality from your tools otherwise you just end up fighting yourself, but in today's world it looks to me like that level of functionality is pretty darn easily attained and it sounds like you're already there and then some!

Be confident! You deserve it! You have done great work! Just don't let it go too far because arrogance is disgusting and unlike confidence will only hinder you!

My dad used to say "Ego will make the wisest of men do the dumbest of things while confidence will turn the dumbest of things into the wisest decisions"

To be honest I'm still not exactly sure what that means but geez he used to say it a lot LOL

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by audslu

No particular piece of gear alone can do this.

:-)) you just dont know the pieces of gear that can do that.. but they are there..some known to everybody cost more as a car..some really cheap bets kept secrets.. but there is very warm sounding gear that has the power to rejuvinate any sound you send thru it..however..sending a sound 2 times thru such a high colour device can be to much.. so cleaner sounding desks become fovored in professional music production..