Distortion in electronic synth music

[raymondwave]

Any examples on how to use distortion succesfully on synths? Once in a while I try to smash my synth sounds with the couple of distortion plugins I have, but never really liked the result. I just went thru RP-Distort's presets on various synth sounds, but none of them really sounded good to me.

I do use saturators and bit crushers and sometimes basic distortion in little amounts on drums and bass or to fatten up a synth just a bit, but anything really noticable never seems to work, unless maybe on a 303 kind of bass.

Is it just that I don't like distortion on synths or maybe I just haven't found a good use for it? Is it just finding the settings before the sound breaks up to unrecognizable buzz? Is there some deeper understanding of harmonics that I don't know?

I also play electric guitar and like the distorted sound on that.

[Michael E]

I think it's fine, if used very subtle as parallel processing.

[Karloff70]

Burning things up can be the kiss of life on electronics....just think it part of the making of the sound. Go all out I reckon.....however analog things are more fun than plugs for this. Buy a midiverb II and cane it....great distortion box....

Sent from my GT-I5800 using Gearslutz.com App

[gremlin moon]

Linking the distortion/waveshaping level or mix to velocity can be useful for expressiveness.

[Rogue Ai]

Analog distortion makes me

[bluegreengold]

I don't typically ever go for a straight up distortion effect, but distort sounds by overloading some part of the signal chain.

IMO The best place for clipping in synths is in the mixer section before it hits the filters. It's not labled 'distortion' but overdriving an analog filter is nice.

Another good place is to overload the preamp of a mixer or effects unit.

[mattg082]

I like using my great river or api pres and driving it into the red to clip a little on peaks. Works great for me on synths, as well as di guitar stuff or really anything DI. Pres give some great mojo! I've had some luck using waves mpx on some thing as well as audio damage stuff and ohmnicide which are more so multiband distortions, giving a lot of freedom to make it work with the song at hand and do some truly creative stuff.


If you take a 808 kick or similar and look at it in an analyzer you'll see a bit missing in the lower mids you might want to use...Eqing it up would make it noisey, but some saturation or distortion will drive it to have lower mids therefore more character/ harmonics to play with..Then you can eq around that as you like. This kind of applies to a lot things. Eq and multiband distortions can be your friend to create some truly unique distortions that fit in your mix.

[gsilbers]

you should check some of crystal methods article about using distortion pedals.
i got the rat distorion pedal.

u can also compare how different distortion affects synths

Roland TB 303 Clones Test - Best VST Emulator

(303 though

http://www.acidvoice.com/tb_303_best...tion_pedal.htm

[raymondwave]

I have a tube limiter which does pretty nice analog distortion, but that one is also better used subtly. Analog modelling plugins like SPL TwinTube are pretty good at similar stuff. Waves Kramer Tape is good too.

What I haven't figured out is a good use for all these digital distortion plugins. There's six plugins for distortion in Logic, I don't think I've used any of them during all the years I've used it. Now I've got a couple of new third party ones and while they are a lot better at it, I haven't figured out any good use for them either, other than on drums (or maybe guitar).

There's also distortion fx in quite a lot of subtractive soft synths, but not a single time have I used distortion in any of the sounds I've made and I've made hundreds. I must be missing something, but I'm not sure what .

[raymondwave]

I also have the MAM TB303 clone which is pretty damn nice. 303 style is the only synth sound (not counting drum machines) I can think of which really does benefit of some very noticable distortion.

[raymondwave]

Originally Posted by mattg082

If you take a 808 kick or similar and look at it in an analyzer you'll see a bit missing in the lower mids you might want to use...Eqing it up would make it noisey, but some saturation or distortion will drive it to have lower mids therefore more character/ harmonics to play with..Then you can eq around that as you like. This kind of applies to a lot things. Eq and multiband distortions can be your friend to create some truly unique distortions that fit in your mix.

Good points here. I've saturated 808 quite a few times, actually I think 808 kick is one the sounds that really benefits of some saturating. In this tune I have 808 kick (eventually) going thru four different saturators and distortion instances.

http://soundcloud.com/raymondwave/raindowner

It still isn't really that distorted. Just saturated.

Are there synth sounds that benefit from full distortion. Maybe the original sound needs to be pretty clean to start with, like 808 kick or 303 saw/square.

[audioconsult]

distortion is one of the sound fx that are far superior and complex in the analog domain.. there allmost any device from an old tape deck to the overly expensive theremonic culture vulture is usefull on synthsounds..

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by raymondwave

Good points here. I've saturated 808 quite a few times, actually I think 808 kick is one the sounds that really benefits of some saturating. In this tune I have 808 kick (eventually) going thru four different saturators and distortion instances.

http://soundcloud.com/raymondwave/raindowner

It still isn't really that distorted. Just saturated.

Are there synth sounds that benefit from full distortion. Maybe the original sound needs to be pretty clean to start with, like 808 kick or 303 saw/square.

one thing to add here is that the whole 808 sound itself contains a lot of distortion allready..

that is caused by the 4558 opamps that are also famous for various guitar fx pedals.. they have a warm musical but a bit mushy/ tone. they make a warm overdrive when beeing hit hard.

When you replace theese opamps with better sounding highend ones the whole sound character of the 808 changes a lot and get thinner but also more sounding like real drums actually.. but not really nicer..

you can check the fx op amps already on the mix output of the 808..there the sounds go thru an additional of theese 4558 opamps so some more distortion gets added.

so for some the mix output sounds better than going thru singel outs

[raymondwave]

I'm actually completely in the box nowadays even tho I own outboard gear, so it's a sample/softsynth on that tune. I don't know if the synth sample comes from a real 808.

Lately I've used D16 Nepheton for 808's which I like very much. I don't know if they have modelled the distortion somehow.

Anyhow I do use a lot of "subtle" distortion/saturation on a lot of things, I was more in look out for something that's really obviously distorted. It's ofcourse a matter of taste and experience what's obvious and what's not. But I was thinking in the lines of electric guitar, clean vs. full on distortion.

[robkramble]

Topics like these always remind me of this clip

Fracture & Neptune Part Two - YouTube

ITB mixing still has nothing on OTB gear when it comes to good, usable distortion. Best to start OTB and make things as phat as you need em and just tweak em a bit ITB imo.

[raymondwave]

That's a good video and it actually lead me to thinking it's a bit of a genre thing too. Never been too much into dnb where distortion seems to be more evident.

It looks as if were leaning a bit towards these digital distortion plugins not being very usable, which was my initial thought also.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by robkramble

Topics like these always remind me of this clip

Fracture & Neptune Part Two - YouTube

ITB mixing still has nothing on OTB gear when it comes to good, usable distortion. Best to start OTB and make things as phat as you need em and just tweak em a bit ITB imo.

i dont see a problem to get something in the analog domain and back.. it doesnt do more damage to the sound than sending it thru plug ins..

i actually think thats better to add heavier distortion as part of the mixing process and only have a good preamp before the AD conversion to get what a good console channel will give to the sound. so you have a warm fat sound but still a clean signal.. you cant remove distortion once its in the signal

[robkramble]

Originally Posted by raymondwave

That's a good video and it actually lead me to thinking it's a bit of a genre thing too. Never been too much into dnb where distortion seems to be more evident.

It looks as if were leaning a bit towards these digital distortion plugins not being very usable, which was my initial thought also.

I actually meant to post that it's definitely genre-dependent. It's very true.

I wouldn't say digital plugins are entirely useless, there are some gems like SoundToys Decapitator and a few other plugs have sweet spots that work on select sounds. But yeah, they're far less inspiring and usable than even the simplest OTB methods from personal experience.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by robkramble

I actually meant to post that it's definitely genre-dependent. It's very true.

I wouldn't say digital plugins are entirely useless, there are some gems like SoundToys Decapitator and a few other plugs have sweet spots that work on select sounds. But yeah, they're far less inspiring and usable than even the simplest OTB methods from personal experience.

of cause they are not useless..the logic internal ones are allready great when you know how to work with them.. all the tapechannel emulöations dont do anything else than emulating distortions.. all the tape emulations..saturators.. aso...

there is a big varity and they are all usefull..just.. a real vintage valve channel does a better job..just very unconvient..

i use booth.. my fave i s the roland space echo... and seeing the second hand prices skyrocketing i assume i am not the only one..

[raymondwave]

Yes, I was actually a bit generalizing there, but I somehow can't put plugins like Kramer Tape, SPL Twintube, URS saturation in the same category with the ones that are "distortion" plugins. I haven't used decapitator, but for example D16 distortion stuff is good on drums. As good as they are, I haven't used them on synth sounds like leads, pads, keys. I don't think even bass.

It all started when I got this RP-Distort free with RP-Delay. What are the uses for distortion units like this? I was hoping for some examples on how to succesfully utilize this kind of units with synth sounds, arps, leads, pads . Boards of Canada maybe?

[renderful]

I've gotten some really great stuff by sending synths through a limiter/softclipper and into AudioDamage Kombinat set to tube distortion and taming it with an EQ or filter. Very analog sounding.

[Praxisaxis]

One of Aphex Twin's best tracks uses a metric tonne of distortion to great effect (esp towards the end of the track). Probably other things going on too like overdrive or bit reduction... who knows.



It works really well because the way the track is mastered it's not squashed to crap, and the dynamics are accentuated more than killed.

[zerocrossing]

Originally Posted by raymondwave

Yes, I was actually a bit generalizing there, but I somehow can't put plugins like Kramer Tape, SPL Twintube, URS saturation in the same category with the ones that are "distortion" plugins. I haven't used decapitator, but for example D16 distortion stuff is good on drums. As good as they are, I haven't used them on synth sounds like leads, pads, keys. I don't think even bass.

It all started when I got this RP-Distort free with RP-Delay. What are the uses for distortion units like this? I was hoping for some examples on how to succesfully utilize this kind of units with synth sounds, arps, leads, pads . Boards of Canada maybe?

I do use the D16 plugs as well as a few others.. Kombinant and Ohmicide, for instance on various synths, but what I've found is that the sound needs to be very basic for it lead to good results. think about how simple a guitar's basic waveform is compared to what a synth can produce. So you take a sound that's fairly low in harmonic content and add a bunch of harmonic content and it sounds good. Take something with a lot of harmonic content and add even more... it can end up sounding like crap pretty quick especially if there's a lot of inharmonic content like in a bell sound.

[robkramble]

Originally Posted by zerocrossing

I do use the D16 plugs as well as a few others.. Kombinant and Ohmicide, for instance on various synths, but what I've found is that the sound needs to be very basic for it lead to good results. think about how simple a guitar's basic waveform is compared to what a synth can produce. So you take a sound that's fairly low in harmonic content and add a bunch of harmonic content and it sounds good. Take something with a lot of harmonic content and add even more... it can end up sounding like crap pretty quick especially if there's a lot of inharmonic content like in a bell sound.

It's weird how I've always found this to be the case, but never really thought about it until you pointed it out just now. Good point.

[Diantre]

The key to distortion is to use in small doses. Don't use a single plugin with the gain at 11, use 4 or 5 different plugins in chain with very low distortion settings. The sound stays intelligible and you can get really nasty without muddying everything. Parallel processing is also useful when you want to retain the original character of the synth.

[mattg082]

Originally Posted by zerocrossing

I do use the D16 plugs as well as a few others.. Kombinant and Ohmicide, for instance on various synths, but what I've found is that the sound needs to be very basic for it lead to good results. think about how simple a guitar's basic waveform is compared to what a synth can produce. So you take a sound that's fairly low in harmonic content and add a bunch of harmonic content and it sounds good. Take something with a lot of harmonic content and add even more... it can end up sounding like crap pretty quick especially if there's a lot of inharmonic content like in a bell sound.

I feel this way too. It's kind of like boosting something with a eq that needs it vs boosting something that doesn't need it to 12db and beyond. One will benefit and one will have a ring and start overshadowing every other frequency causing some nasty build up. We're adding harmonic content not taking what's already there and taking a dump on it. If it's already there eq it,cuts,boosts,multiband ect. would be my choices before more distortion. Can always use a hpf,lpf and split the instrument up into lows,mids and highs and just mix the distorted part/upper lower mids up.

[renderful]

Great point about harmonic content, zerocrossing. I've also found that a low pass filters and eqs can be used to take the edge off, but still retain some of the effect.

[audslu]

Try parallel processing, can be very usefull.

edit: about '54 cymru beats' track, that sounds to me like overdriven tube, compressing and saturating nicely, very musical, no secrets there!

[rolandjuno6]

I am a guitar player who also does stuff with synthesizers and drum machines. When I record I usually plug my synthesizers and drum machines into guitar effects. For distortion I use a Z Vex Fuzz Factory, Fulltone Full Drive II, Electro Harmonix Big Muff Pi, and a 4ms Atoner. On a rare occasion I use an MXR Blue Box octave fuzz.

[Necron 99]

Originally Posted by raymondwave

Is it just that I don't like distortion on synths or maybe I just haven't found a good use for it? Is it just finding the settings before the sound breaks up to unrecognizable buzz? Is there some deeper understanding of harmonics that I don't know?.

It really depends on the sound. I've jammed out with my synth plugged into distortion and one setting that sounds terrible will turn into something terrific with the simple turning of a few knobs. I've also noticed that there are some distortions that sounds better with guitar but not synths and vice versa. Right now the only distortion I use anymore is from my Voyager's external audio input cranked to the max. One great distortion for synths is a free plugin from Shuttleplugs called "Lawnmower".

shuttleplugs - free VST plugins

It's very easy to use and you can get great results in no time.