I've Developed a Psycholgical Barrier to Purchasing an Acoustic Instrument

[Zombie H]

Originally Posted by audslu

I 'm just saying. If you didn't tease already, i probably would, in some differrent way...!

The catsuit is not a bad idea, but i think casual is good too. Have you seen any Juliette Valduriez vids? We need that chicka to post over here!

Meow is doing pretty good but doesn't have any vids so far....

I own the same classical guitar as Ana!

acoustic instruments FTW

ps fwap fwap fwap

[GeorgeHayduke]

Guys, learn to act normal even if there's a female in the room. E.g. please don't turn everything into some sexy-thing because there's a female present, it's insanely embarrassing to others - and I remember one highly skilled and experienced female synth-goddess who no longer posts here. I'm pretty sure I know why.

Meow seems like a cool poster and I personally laughed with her when I read the super-guitar story. Not at her. I think I was right in laughing with her, I believe that was how her post was set up.

Moderators, please make sure that females can be here without being bullied, even if no harm is meant. I know no harm is meant but harm is done. E.g. now she regrets telling a fun/ironic story.

[WDM]

Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke

Guys, learn to act normal even if there's a female in the room. E.g. please don't turn everything into some sexy-thing because there's a female present, it's insanely embarrassing to others - and I remember one highly skilled and experienced female synth-goddess who no longer posts here. I'm pretty sure I know why.

Meow seems like a cool poster and I personally laughed with her when I read the super-guitar story. Not at her. I think I was right in laughing with her, I believe that was how her post was set up.

Moderators, please make sure that females can be here without being bullied, even if no harm is meant. I know no harm is meant but harm is done. E.g. now she regrets telling a fun/ironic story.

Very good point, but lets try not to over blow the male/female thing.
It's not about male/female. It's about synthesizers/acoustic instruments.
Lets stay on that focus and the male/female thing will disappear by itself.

I don't think that Meow would like to be treated differently from any other GS, she has the same rights as any one else here. May be she is even cooler than the others, but that doesn't protect her from friendly jokes. Friendly jokes that's what it is. Good joke along with good advice that's what we all need when we're sharing our stories.

And yes, we all sometimes could be funny here ... one way or another ... so lets get used to it

[Batchainpuller78]

omg OP that's just wrong! an acoustic instrument is so much more complex in timbre & resonance plays so much more into which room you play it in, yes it requires much more skill & patience to get all this from an acoustic instrument and no it can not (sound like or emulate and imitate) but it has a character and journey of its own which goes before and beyond synthesizers

same with drums.. djeez great that Electronic kit gives you a few hundred different sounds and kits whilst just having a real snaredrum in front of one already gives the options of hundreds and hundreds of different sounds & nuances by the way you play it, where you play it, how you tune it, which skins, which sticks or hands or brushes or pieces of wood you use, how you record it, where you record it and so on.

I love electronic stuff but the older I get and the more music I encounter the bigger my admiration grows to acoustic.

That's my gripe why I haven't enjoyed any 'electronic piano' imitating an acoustic... it just gives less than half the enjoyment of playing a real one.

[ofajen]

OP: over time, there can be an ebb and flow to your interest and an evolution in your music. Doesn't have to be one way. You may come to appreciate the subtlety, nuance and control of playing an acoustic or electric instrument along with the range of sound synths offer.

Cheers,

Otto

[the donal]

Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78

omg OP that's just wrong! an acoustic instrument is so much more complex in timbre & resonance plays so much more into which room you play it in, yes it requires much more skill & patience to get all this from an acoustic instrument and no it can not (sound like or emulate and imitate) but it has a character and journey of its own which goes before and beyond synthesizers

same with drums.. djeez great that Electronic kit gives you a few hundred different sounds and kits whilst just having a real snaredrum in front of one already gives the options of hundreds and hundreds of different sounds & nuances by the way you play it, where you play it, how you tune it, which skins, which sticks or hands or brushes or pieces of wood you use, how you record it, where you record it and so on.

I love electronic stuff but the older I get and the more music I encounter the bigger my admiration grows to acoustic.

That's my gripe why I haven't enjoyed any 'electronic piano' imitating an acoustic... it just gives less than half the enjoyment of playing a real one.

I was trying to articulate a response like this yesterday.

The value in a good acoustic instrument is the depth of it's tone and it's responsiveness to playing. Synths aren't the best instruments for matching this, for all their sonic potential. You can't judge the value of one in the same way as another- only on what you want out of that specific type of instrument.

And in reference to Meow's post- it's easy to go through phases of instruments. I often miss out on one instrument when I get right into another- I didn't pick my bass up for months until last night, as I've been more focussed on guitars and more recently my new synths.

BUT- it's great to have the options, so you can move from one instrument to another when you're struggling for inspiration. It's almost like having a break (though this is a good things too, sometimes). Keep the guitar playing up though- it's much more fun when you practice regular and you don't get too rusty...

[t_d]

i went through this same phase during the first 15 years of my electronic music career. when i finally started dabbling with acoustic instruments i realized they're far more expressive and less limiting than synthesizers.

[pattherocker]

I try to incorporate acoustic instruments in to my life as much as possible along with my love for synths and electronic music. I think it helps me keep things organic and have fresh angles and ideas. +1 for acoustic guitars and pianos

PS @ Meow my little sister (and band mate) just made an account here, she asked me if there are any girls on here and i said i havent seen any, Shes gonna be excited when i tell her you are around! We also both have high dollar acoustics that we dont play as much now that we found synths and beat machines we both agree that you have to work alot harder playing them to get the effect you want versus synths.

[Batchainpuller78]

I'll have to say what I like about synths though that it's the sound of electricity with the ability to modify or modulate it in many ways.. and that's some pretty exciting stuff.

So yeah synths pretty exciting as well, however I stand by acoustics are before & beyond...

[GeorgeHayduke]

Originally Posted by t_d

..when i finally started dabbling with acoustic instruments i realized they're far more expressive and less limiting than synthesizers.

Wrt. sound, it's been expensive for me to find synths that retain some of the euphonic character of the acoustic instruments I grew up with. The closest are the expensive analogs..

I'd say that each instrument can express different things, but I agree insofar that there is no limits to how you can attack for instance a guitar, e.g. by bending and wiggling a string. That's why old guitar players want VCOs, we don't like a flatlined pitch :D

Or you can even scrape the strings, pluck them next to the tuners, pat the body for drumming a rythm, something the guitar wasn't designed for, but it makes a musical sound because it is acoustic.

On a synth, you have to exploit the way it was made, you can't go 'outside' it's intended functionality, and it doesn't make any sound without electricity. On the other hand, synths can be very expressive and bend around aural corners you can hardly reach on any acoustic instrument. For me, a synth must have good knobs for intuitive expression, and a good joystick/rolls for pitch and 'expression'.

[gremlin moon]

Acoustic/traditional instruments allow in-the-moment expressiveness in a way that programming a patch does not and my "expressive" instrument that I have mind-melded with is the guitar. But. . . if you were to walk into the Sweetwater showroom (just as an example) with a couple thousand dollars it would be hard not to walk out with a Moog or V-Synth GT vs the guitar you set out to get. Or just sitting in front of your browser with tab 1 displaying this site: Guitars 'n Jazz - Palen, Peerless, Eastman Jazz Guitars and Accessories and tab 2 this site: a n a l o g u e h a v e n There is an addictive quality to synths -- sort of like an endless around the world plane trip where you can keep seeing new things. But sometimes I plainly need to go Bumpin' on Sunset:


At the end of the day I am just going to have to go with the Graph Tech MIDI system.

[Batchainpuller78]

Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke

That's why old guitar players want VCOs, we don't like a flatlined pitch :D

that's one reason, and I guess well I only own analogs, my brother has a lot of the modern digital stuff.. and sure the textures & sounds coming out of those can be impressive.. but with all those machines when I turn a knob I feel that I'm not directly changing the currents within the machine.

And I also hate small knobs.. bigger knobs give you more resolution plain and simple.. I want to be able to play a melody with just turning the knob on a self oscillating filter.. much more easy in the analog big knobbed domain

[Itsmorning]

If you want expressive acoustic instruments then fretless strings are the way to go. Guitars and pianos can be expressive but when compared to a synth they are very much alike with the main difference being that the former group changes it's harmonic spectrum for each note while the latter has the exact some harmonic spectrum transposed to seperate notes.

[gremlin moon]

The ultimate fretless lol:
Haken Audio - Continuum Overview

[Mystr Tiger]

Originally Posted by gremlin moon

The ultimate fretless lol:
Haken Audio - Continuum Overview

Yes! I've seen this before and I want one! Sadly, they are very expensive.

[realtrance]

Guitar gives you lovely spaces between the notes, where the sounds resonate in the room. The relationship between sound and silence is delicate, and thus inspiring.

The tendency with synths is to fill all that silent space up, and then before you know it, you've lost all contrast, and are wondering why you feel like you just wasted a weekend watching TV.

I'd think the exercise of balancing the fresh excitement of synth possibilities with the nuances of guitar would be a worthy way to spend your time.

[Itsmorning]

Originally Posted by realtrance

Guitar gives you lovely spaces between the notes, where the sounds resonate in the room. The relationship between sound and silence is delicate, and thus inspiring.

The tendency with synths is to fill all that silent space up, and then before you know it, you've lost all contrast, and are wondering why you feel like you just wasted a weekend watching TV.

I'd think the exercise of balancing the fresh excitement of synth possibilities with the nuances of guitar would be a worthy way to spend your time.

Except guitars can take up tons of room using overdrive, distortion, and feedback.

Maybe if you are using cooked synths you would think they naturally take up alot of room but it takes work and effects to go from synth building blocks to stereo saturation.

Aren't these comments really just mixing issues and have nothing to do with the instruments you are talking about?

[GeorgeHayduke]

Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78

.. but with all those machines when I turn a knob I feel that I'm not directly changing the currents within the machine.

I know exactly what you mean! Cause and effect, the physics of an electric current, it's just so tangible. (Like an acoustic).

That's another reason I like preamps with transformers (At least I imagine it's the transformers.): The sound when you turn then on and they load, love it.

Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78

..
..I want to be able to play a melody with just turning the knob on a self oscillating filter.. much more easy in the analog big knobbed domain

Yep! And that is indeed a very intuitive, sensuous and expressive method, and one I too use a lot, for improvising melody and harmony. Everytime, it comes out a little different, like the bend of a string.

I think I need a MIDI strip-controller btw., for those 'fretless' sounds. Or a Theremin. Though I'm scared of the learning curve on that one!

[Batchainpuller78]

It's not that hard, not if you are an intuitive musician.. sure to be top notch on it is insanely difficult, like violin or trumpet.
I've got one and wel playing melodies on it is pretty easy, once you got your range set you really feel where the notes are and of course use slides and vibrato to hide pitchy mistakes just like many violin players do

[OmicronMeadow]

I love all musical instruments. I think, synthesizers have taught me to appreciate slight variations in timbre more. From this experience, even the simple acoustic instruments have enough depth to attract my interest. I don't play any 'sophisticated' acoustic instrument well yet, though.

[audslu]

Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke

Guys, learn to act normal even if there's a female in the room. E.g. please don't turn everything into some sexy-thing because there's a female present, it's insanely embarrassing to others - and I remember one highly skilled and experienced female synth-goddess who no longer posts here. I'm pretty sure I know why.

Meow seems like a cool poster and I personally laughed with her when I read the super-guitar story. Not at her. I think I was right in laughing with her, I believe that was how her post was set up.

Moderators, please make sure that females can be here without being bullied, even if no harm is meant. I know no harm is meant but harm is done. E.g. now she regrets telling a fun/ironic story.

Your right i m sorry, i don't mean to offend anyone or to show disrespect, especially to Meow who i happen to like her posts. Didn't really had to answer to Zombie i guess, but at the same time it was ment as a friendly tease like i do with female friends, although here it's not the same because were not friends exactly... Picking on her about her guitar, i can't see any point really, i don't agree with this and i didn't laugh at all to be clear.

And i don't "fwap fwap" at forums etc. but the vid posted above: very nice, excellent music!



Acoustic instruments are great to implement and real performance gives any track real vibes and feeling, i just don't have a quiet booth or something like this atm. In the future i'd like to buy an udu drum and various percussion to sample/play, although i might end up buying a drum machine instead!

[audslu]

Originally Posted by realtrance

Guitar gives you lovely spaces between the notes, where the sounds resonate in the room. The relationship between sound and silence is delicate, and thus inspiring.

The tendency with synths is to fill all that silent space up, and then before you know it, you've lost all contrast, and are wondering why you feel like you just wasted a weekend watching TV.

I'd think the exercise of balancing the fresh excitement of synth possibilities with the nuances of guitar would be a worthy way to spend your time.

Yeah i know what you mean, nice point. I like to live open strings while playing to hear the resonance, while creating tension with the chords progressing. It also gives a reverb-long decay feel that i like.

In synth i like to use delay or long release automations (common thing), or have it all the time, depends what you want to express.

[shadowfac]

I know the feeling. I've been playing synths for 12 years and acoustic drums for 20. And for some reason, I can easily spend thousands of dollars in modular synths but don't see myself buying expensive drum gear. I have a cheap no-brand acoustic kit which cost around $500 new (and sounds pretty good) and some ok-ish Sabian cymbals. I probably spent less than $800 on the whole thing and have owned it for almost 10 years.

[Susceptor]

Acoustic is awesome to use for that ethnic/world blend within electronic music.
However, I think it's more of how you use it and implement it. I'm a sucker for plucky sounds, flutey sounds, and music-boxy-bellish sounds - this doesn't mean I use the real instruments, but sampled or synthesized sounds that are in that ballpark and that fit the track.

[Meow]

Hey guys no hard feelings at all about anything, I'm sorry I reacted harshly I realize now I was probably just taking things the wrong way really. Text is bad at that! Trust me I've had two boyfriends add an EX to their title due to stupid misunderstandings via text messages lol!!

But yes no hard feelings, twas all just a misunderstanding!

And don't treat me any different because I'm female! I realize now that maybe that's not a common thing here necessarily but don't worry I can play with the boys, always have always will

[bloodsample]

I still play on my upright piano every morning. There's just something refreshing about not having to think about production/sound design/knobs/settings/etc. but just focusing on playing music.

Same goes for my acoustic guitar, it's my go to instrument for writing chord progressions and melodies (sing + play). When I play a synth I tend to focus more on the timbre and less on the melody which I guess isn't very practical.

What I'm trying to say is balance is key. Digital, analog, hardware, software, acoustic, electric = all good.

[Brainchild]

For some reason, synthesizers make acoustic instruments sound boring by comparison. Maybe the waveforms are way simpler in a synthesized sound (or tend to start out that way), and you can't do the "infinitely subtle and variable" whatever somethings on a synth that you can do on a guitar or horn, but the sound is more interesting coming from a well-formed analog electronic snare sound than from an actual snare drum. To me.

On the flip side, now that I have re-built sound from the ground up, it's nice to be able to say, for example, "ah, that horn is putting out a nice saw wave with a 50%-amplitude slightly-clipped sine wave on top on that note" or whatnot. Playing acoustic instruments after having synthesized sound for a while definitely makes you appreciate how much an acoustic musician takes for granted (or can take for granted) that a synthesist doesn't (and can't).

[Meow]

Originally Posted by bloodsample

I still play on my upright piano every morning. There's just something refreshing about not having to think about production/sound design/knobs/settings/etc. but just focusing on playing music.

Same goes for my acoustic guitar, it's my go to instrument for writing chord progressions and melodies (sing + play). When I play a synth I tend to focus more on the timbre and less on the melody which I guess isn't very practical.

What I'm trying to say is balance is key. Digital, analog, hardware, software, acoustic, electric = all good.

This!

This is why all my songs begin as piano!

I open Reason, it loads my default template I made in which I have a Redrum with a kick I made, a snare sample, one open hihat and one closed, and a crash. One Dr Octorex with a shaker loop, and most importantly one NN-XT with the Abbey Roads Steinway Upright pre-loaded and my keyboard locked to it!

Click metronome button if I'm in a hurry, if not scribble out a quick 1 bar drum pattern on the Redrum step sequencer, and bam!

From zero to songwriting in 15 seconds!

Heck I'm still tuning the second string at that point on guitar much less have the mics up and levels set to start recording!

One thing I definitely noticed doing this is I don't lose my ideas anymore! It's just so fast!

[bluegreengold]

For me, a big part of my interest in electronic music comes from the fact that acoustic instruments are too directly expressive. Especially if you are working alone. It's one thing to be practicing some piece of music alone, but to really perform or to improvise/create, it's just kinda off.

Another aspect is that I find that the mind state for really performing well with non electronic instruments is someplace where it's hard to enjoy 'listening' to the music as you make it.

By all means, my favorite musical moments come from improvising live with other people. But these moments are discovered afterthefact as the concentration required to make them happen overloads the 'listening to music enjoyment.' It's not uncommon to think the moment after putting the instrument down that the music you just created isn't any good until you listen to playback (maybe days later). It's just hard to be critical when you there in the moment.

Also, I find playing live music with others so enjoyable, that it feels a little sad to be playing them alone.

***
With electronic music, 'the other' is there in the machine (while with a guitar or piano, the instrument becomes more of an extension of yourself) and so there is still the fun of exploring sound that is coming from outside yourself. It doesn't feel quite so solipsistic working alone. My preference is make music with others, but that's not always an option.

Also the nonlinear, not necessarily real time nature of electronic music allows one to enjoy the mindstate of 'listening' while you are simultaneously creating.

[G. Kaye]

Originally Posted by Mardi Gras

I've tried every whichway to fit guitar into electronic music. It just doesn't fit unless you're doing disco.

Nonsense. Clean electric guitar fits perfect with synths. Ever listen to 80's funk/r&b?