MKS-80 or mono synth?

[bebo]

Probably I'm not the first asking, but I couldn't resist to start a new threat.

I already found this thread, but I consider different mono synths.

I always wanted to have a MKS-80, but they were hard to find and one I found on e-bay was sold when I decided that I wanted it.
In the meantime I bought some other stuff like MKS-70, MKS-50, Matrix-1000,
TX7 and D550.

Now I could get a Rev4 MKS-80 in good condition but for a very high price. The whole day I listened to MKS-80 demos and having all those other DCO-synths, I'm asking myself, if I really want to buy a MKS-80.

When it comes to string pads I really prefere the MKS-70 and maybe D550 over the MKS-80, although it has some nice synth pads.

The other things, people say, is that the MKS-80 excels when it comes to bass and lead sounds. But those sounds are played monophonic. Do I need a poly synth for mono sounds?

Now I'm thinking about not to buy an overpriced MKS-80 but to buy a mono- or duophonic synth.

The alternatives might be:
Moog Voyager RME
Omega/Code 8 with CS-80 filters (I think the smallerst version has 2 voices)
or maybe ATC-1x?
or maybe Tempest


What sounds are most important to me? I would say cutting and expressive lead sounds. Not like in Club Music, Techno or Hip Hop, more that kind of sound that fits into the 80ies.

Here is a great demo. The lead sound starting at 0:25 is beautiful, but I also like to low pad at the very beginning. STUDIO ELECTRONICS OMEGA 8 ANALOGUE SYNTHESIZER - FIRST ON YOUTUBE - YouTube

Or the sound starting at 1:52: atc1 tune - YouTube

Nearly all sounds in this video besides 0:50 to 1:15 or so: Roland MKS-80 demo - YouTube

This one sounds great, too, but it's a Rev 5: Roland MKS 80 Rev 5 - YouTube

The sound starting at 0:24 and the flutelike sound at around 1:40: Yamaha CS 50 - YouTube

The 2 padlike sounds starting around 0:10 and 0:25 as well the lead sounds from 0:44 to 0:55 and 2:24 2:42 :Moog Voyager RME demo # 2 - YouTube

What do you think, which one or two are the best matching synths for those kind of sounds?

[golden beers]

it depends what sort of bass you want. it is great for some bass duties, eg those hard rumbling drum and bass types of subs and drones. bare in mind that the MKS80 has software envelopes which, although not sluggish compared to some, are not as snappy or punchy as the hardware envelopes found in analogue monosynths so not generally quite as good at percussive hits.

i love the mks80 and would definitely choose it over the code8. if you specifically want a percussive bass line machine you want a monosynth.

if you want a rich and fully featured synthesiser that sounds awesome and is fully automate-able; go with the MKS80.

[AnalogGuy]

MKS-80 is really the ultimate, the best all-round, universal synth for any kind of analog stuff. Keep it and then buy other monosynth for more percussive basses if you think the envelopes are not enough. With MKS-80 you're not gas'ing for other polysynths later. It's got most of the stuff you ever want and even more.

Oh, right it's REV4? Then it's got fine envelopes. REV5 lacks faster envelopes but got much more finer and detailed sound whereas REV4 is more dirty, aggressive and raw sounding.

[projectwoofer]

I don't have an MKS-80 but never heard any good strings or pads out of it in demos. As they are the main sounds I'd need in a polysynth, I've decided not to bother, let alone the fact that it's hugely overpriced. My EX-8000 and Tetra both give me these types of sounds which I quite prefer actually. The JD-990 can also do outstanding pads with very analog impression and can sound very MKS-70 like if you make it. Not to mention the D-550!

For bass, leads, percussion, fx and arp stuff a nice mono (or two) are all one needs and can do much better than any MKS IMO...

As I started that thread you mention in your OP, I actually consider different monosynths now as new stuff have emerged plus my needs have changed and my experience has grown a bit in the meantime.

Expensive: Macbeth Vortex or Micromac, Tom Oberheim SEM
Cheaper: DominionX, Minitaur, Minibrute, Pulse 2.

[analogholic]

The MKS-80 rev 4 has balls.
It´s aggressive and dry due to the Curtis oscillators.
The cool thing about it (that lacks in many other polys) is that it also has a monophonic mode which Roland calls "solo". Solo has both multiple and single (legato) triggering. so VOILA, here´s your monosynth.
Fat basses, killer leads, cutting stabs velocity controlled....yeah and very nice PWM.
Quite versatile to program.
You have pads and softer stuff covered with the MKS-70, D-550.
The MKS-80 will give you the balls.
I´d say go for it. I love mine !

[relis]

@bebo:

My first thought, after reading your post, was regarded to MKS70 and MKS50. Isn't MKS70 making your MKS50 little redundant? I wouldn't bother with both, but that's me.

You have great synths, and I'd stick with them; D550, TX7, MKS70 and M1000.

MKS80 has plenty of clean cutting '80s sounds, but you have those covered already. You don't need MKS80 for pads or strings, neither.

Yes, it has balls, but not even close as big as SH2, Source or Mini. Or Studio Electronics in fact. I have MKS80 in the studio right now and it can't be compared to SH2 basses, leads or arpeggios. Nor ATCX I had 'till the other day. It's not the same level.

For an all-rounder synth, MKS80 is a great choice, but if I were you, considering what you already have, I'd go with mono: SEM, Source, SH2, Mono Lancet even if you're looking on the cheaper side...

[AnalogGuy]

Originally Posted by projectwoofer

I don't have an MKS-80 but never heard any good strings or pads out of it in demos. As they are the main sounds I'd need in a polysynth, I've decided not to bother, let alone the fact that it's hugely overpriced. My EX-8000 and Tetra both give me these types of sounds which I quite prefer actually. The JD-990 can also do outstanding pads with very analog impression and can sound very MKS-70 like if you make it. Not to mention the D-550!

LOL. You really missed Rev5 MKS-80 then? Rev4 is very raw sounding which does not excel at pads and strings so much. Instead if you didn't know, Rev5 uses exactly same VCA circuits as MKS-70! I owned MKS-70 before and I can tell you the Rev5 is much closer to the MKS-70 and can do amazing pads and strings which I love most and since it's VCO it's so much more organic. I can agree that there's no much of sound demos from Rev5 strings so I do not wonder why you are thinking in that way, but IMHO they are in same league as any other big VCO polysynth out there like oberheims and prophets.

Here's the only demos of Rev5 I found:

http://www.babic.com/SYN/MKS80-V4/CC...ushStrings.mp3
http://www.babic.com/SYN/MKS80-V4/CC...PWMStrings.mp3
http://www.babic.com/SYN/MKS80-V4/CC...5_melloPWM.mp3

These are rough but pretty. If you want I can provide you more detailed, finer demos from my own unit by myself.

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by relis

@bebo:
My first thought, after reading your post, was regarded to MKS70 and MKS50. Isn't MKS70 making your MKS50 little redundant? I wouldn't bother with both, but that's me.

The MKS50 and 70 really don't have a lot of crossover, other than being roland rack polysynths. Each one's strengths are orthogonal to the other. There really is very little overlap between the Roland rack analogs, in terms of sound except for them all being somehow 'Rolandy.' You could have a mks30, 50, 70 and 80, and each of them would have their own place in the sound palette.

[Don Solaris]

Originally Posted by bebo

Probably I'm not the first asking, but I couldn't resist to start a new threat.

MKS-80 rev4 all the way.

Madonna - La Isla Bonita (Audio) - YouTube
Madonna - Into The Groove (Audio) - YouTube
Information Society- Walking Away - YouTube

etc...

[projectwoofer]

Originally Posted by AnalogGuy

LOL. You really missed Rev5 MKS-80 then? Rev4 is very raw sounding which does not excel at pads and strings so much. Instead if you didn't know, Rev5 uses exactly same VCA circuits as MKS-70! I owned MKS-70 before and I can tell you the Rev5 is much closer to the MKS-70 and can do amazing pads and strings which I love most and since it's VCO it's so much more organic. I can agree that there's no much of sound demos from Rev5 strings so I do not wonder why you are thinking in that way, but IMHO they are in same league as any other big VCO polysynth out there like oberheims and prophets.

Here's the only demos of Rev5 I found:

http://www.babic.com/SYN/MKS80-V4/CC...ushStrings.mp3
http://www.babic.com/SYN/MKS80-V4/CC...PWMStrings.mp3
http://www.babic.com/SYN/MKS80-V4/CC...5_melloPWM.mp3

These are rough but pretty. If you want I can provide you more detailed, finer demos from my own unit by myself.

Well, I'm aware of these demos and to be honest, I still don't like that sound for pads. It's too harsh/brutal/whatever for my taste. Would be very interested for some pad demos from your MKS-80 though cos I could change my mind...

[AnalogGuy]

Originally Posted by projectwoofer

Well, I'm aware of these demos and to be honest, I still don't like that sound for pads. It's too harsh/brutal/whatever for my taste. Would be very interested for some pad demos from your MKS-80 though cos I could change my mind...

Yeah I know what you mean but MKS-80 can do a lot more than those. I am trying to point out MKS-80 Rev5 can do so much, from soft pads and strings to more harsh and even aggressive... there's Cross-modulation which can do also more subtle chorus like tones for the strings and pads.

I'll send you some demos as soon as I can get my soft editor working.

[sleestack]

great miami bass machine. unison mode, square wave. bit of detune. slight Q, close the LPF a bit. Amazing.

[SWAN808]

I think if you really want 80s sound - an MKS80 might be a good fit. Given what you have already - a monosynth bass/lead machine makes more sense...but those Studio Electronics and Moog sound more '70s' - creamy and phat...

If you like 80s sound - it makes sense to own the MKS80, 70 and Matrix1000...

Particularly 80s are the unison bass sounds and unison lead. Make sure its the Rev 4 version.

[bebo]

Hi everyone,

and thank you for all the comments. I'm think about to grab that MKS-80 if I can get it.

The only thing that keeps me thinking is Rev4 or Rev5. I mean both MKS-70 and MKS-50 have the same filters as the Rev5. Thus wouldn't it be more suitable to grab the Rev4? Strings from the MKS-70 are great. And a brighter, rougher more aggressive sound would be nice.
What do I miss if I take the Rev4. Only the soft strings? How big is the difference?
Is the CEM3340 VCO chip really so bad for strings? Don't Prophet 5 and OB8/a have the same Curtis chips? At least somebody wrote it here. It seems that it was very popular at that time.

If I wound think about grabbing a Moog Voyager RME in addition to the MKS-80. Would you suggerst revision change?

@golden beers: Btw what is the difference between the Rev4 and Rev5 envelops?

[The Elf]

Don't get bogged down by the MKS-80 Rev 4/Rev 5 concerns. I have owned both for many years and they sound practically identical.

The MKS-80 sounds nothing like an MKS-70 in either of its revisions. Yes, I have one of those too!

For powerful, snappy basses and leads the MKS-80 is fabulous. The Rev4/5 thing is of no consequence. For strings/pads, etc. the MKS-70 does a much better job.

If you really want to save some cash then go for a JP-8080 - it gets close enough to both the MKS-70/80 and has a beauty all its own.

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by The Elf

Don't get bogged down by the MKS-80 Rev 4/Rev 5 concerns. I have owned both for many years and they sound practically identical.

The MKS-80 sounds nothing like an MKS-70 in either of its revisions. Yes, I have one of those too!

For powerful, snappy basses and leads the MKS-80 is fabulous. The Rev4/5 thing is of no consequence. For strings/pads, etc. the MKS-70 does a much better job.

If you really want to save some cash then go for a JP-8080 - it gets close enough to both the MKS-70/80 and has a beauty all its own.

I agree with all of this. further to that......The MKS80 eats the ATCX for breakfast and then asks for a second cup of coffee. I had an SH5 (actually two of them, and before I let the last one go, I spent a lot of time evaluating whether or not I would be able to cover the bottom end that the SH5 could deliver with the MKS80. It doesn't have that early Depeche Mode lightning fast hf attack but very close, and it does have subsonic capability that puts most to shame. It's actually kind of the sound of the Source in some ways. Smooth fat and also crisp. But it will go to many more places thanan SH2 will go, again, the bottom end it can deliver can be shaped in many ways. I have cranked out some very "|Minimoog" bass sounds with it (many flavors from square filtere to John Carpenter dirty / edgy). The MKS80 is really not the easiest synth to get results out of...you really have to work at it. But in the end, the time inveszted is worth it .

[Rangoon]

Originally Posted by The Elf

Don't get bogged down by the MKS-80 Rev 4/Rev 5 concerns. I have owned both for many years and they sound practically identical....

I'm another owner of both versions of the MKS-80 and I would agree 100% with this post. This is also the conclusion of just about everyone on the internet who's ever concurrently owned both. The envelopes on the Rev5 are not "slower" than the Rev4 and the filters and oscillators don't sound the least bit different in my opinion. And the Rev5 is no more "closer" to an MKS-70 than the Rev4 is.

[SWAN808]

well - I had a Rev 5 and it sounded different to the Rev 4 to me. The env certainly did not seem very tight. There is a good A/B example on the net showing clear differences in the same patches...Im not saying its a fact - but just from what I have heard...

[bebo]

I firstly become aware of the MKS-80 when I read that Michael Cretu used it during the 80ies. And as an big fan of the 80'ies Sandra sound, I think it's not wrong getting a MKS-80. Don't know which version he used. It as in 1986 but that does not mean that the MKS was new. It could be every revision.

But when it comes to the price I always read that a fair price for an MKS-80 without programmer is around 800-1200$ which is around 900€. But during the last year the cheapest MKS-80 I saw was 1100€ for a 117V version. Then it goes up to around 1800 Euro not Dollar without programmer. I think the average price was round 1400€ or so. But buying them overseas does not make any sence in most cases. What do you think is an acceptable price for this synth in Europe?

Btw is it true that Jupiter-8, -6, -4, Juno-6 and Juno-60 and so on all have the same filter chip? MKS80 rev 4 and 5

[The Elf]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

well - I had a Rev 5 and it sounded different to the Rev 4 to me. The env certainly did not seem very tight. There is a good A/B example on the net showing clear differences in the same patches...Im not saying its a fact - but just from what I have heard...

There are many trimmers inside an MKS-80, and many people who seem to feel the need to fiddle with them. This could be one explanation.

My own Rev 4 had been fooled around with and came badly set up. It sounded nothing like my Rev 5 on first hearing. Once I had set everything back to normality the 4 and 5 sounded near-identical. There's no difference between envelope speeds. The oscillator of the Rev 4 is a tiny bit brighter, but once the filter is working its magic you'd never notice.

[projectwoofer]

Originally Posted by bebo

But when it comes to the price I always read that a fair price for an MKS-80 without programmer is around 800-1200$ which is around 900€. But during the last year the cheapest MKS-80 I saw was 1100€ for a 117V version. Then it goes up to around 1800 Euro not Dollar without programmer. I think the average price was round 1400€ or so. But buying them overseas does not make any sence in most cases. What do you think is an acceptable price for this synth in Europe?

I also live in Europe and rarely see an MKS-80 for sale locally. Most are advertised from overseas and in insane prices. If you find one for around 1500 euro (without programmer and if you're lucky), you will then have to add postage costs, import taxes (in my country it's 20% of the item's price) and conversion to 220-240V. Do the maths...it's not worth it IMO...

[Ossicle]

Originally Posted by bebo

In the meantime I bought some other stuff like MKS-70, MKS-50, Matrix-1000,TX7 and D550.

I was in a somewhat similar situation: I had exactly those same synths except mono Evolver instead of the MKS 70 and Matrix 6R instead of 1000. The I wanted a big poly, considered the MKS-80 and then went for the Jupiter 6 (guts very close to MKS-80 rev4 without the bass boost - sounds often close but not exactly the same as the MKS 80).

The JP 6 was not my cup of tea and didn't sound that big nor punchy -And I still didn't have a proper bass synth. I wasn't happy until I got the JP8 and Moog Source. That was almost 3 years ago and I haven't really lusted for another synth since then. I prob would have been happy with the P5 too, as it's a lot punchier and bigger sounding than the JP6.

The Source bass sounds very 80's, great leads. It's different from the MKS-80, of course. And edgier (= more vintage vibe) than the Voyager. But I'd check it out. Especially since you already have a lot of Roland analogue. If the Source isn't what you're after, I'd still look for a powerful mono (tons of options) instead of the MKS, if it's mostly bass and leads you're after.

[kpatz]

I had a Rev 3 (hardware identical to rev 4) MKS-80 for a few months back in 2008. I ended up selling it only because I wanted a nice analog pad machine and the MKS is better suited for leads/basses. In other words, it makes for a nice monosynth, well 2 in split mode.

Anyway, before I sold it I created this piece entirely on the MKS-80, mainly to see how doable such a project was. I call it "Voyage to Jupiter", Jupiter of course referring to the "Super Jupiter" I created it on. Voyage to Jupiter.mp3

EDIT: Here's another demo of the MKS-80 I had. A sampling of some patches: http://www.patzcatz.com/mp3/mks80demo.mp3

[AnalogGuy]

Originally Posted by kpatz

I had a Rev 3 (hardware identical to rev 4) MKS-80 for a few months back in 2008. I ended up selling it only because I wanted a nice analog pad machine and the MKS is better suited for leads/basses. In other words, it makes for a nice monosynth, well 2 in split mode.

Funny, if Rev4 and Rev5 are really same... how many are complaining that rev4 does not suite for pads and strings while I bought Rev5 and use it solely for VCO strings and pads.

[sleestack]

a poly doing unison bass is a different sound than a mono synth doing bass. just different. you can't say. oh, id take a mono over whatever for bass. if you want that poly unison sound (the bass in time after time by cindy lauper is a P5 in unison for instance) then you need a poly.

[bebo]

"...amusing how contradictory the 2 comments below are. the rev5 would sound more like a jx8p. the rev4 more like a jupiter 6....but in either case those sounds at 2:15 are pretty sweet. nicer than anything my jx8p will do. VCOs vs DCOs. I'll have one of these soon hopefully."
LXXero vor 1 Jahr

This is what I stole from here. If both are the same, why do I so often read statments like this as well as the "Rev5 better for strings" statement.
On the other hand people hear differences between DX7/DX7II/FM8 and others say "it's all the same".
When the circuitry is different I expect differences. Otherwise how big is the difference between MKS-80 Rev5 and Jupiter-80 Rev1? See here: Roland Jupiter-80 v/s MKS-80 (Jupiter-8) : The Blind Test - YouTube

@kpatz: Well, your "Voyage to Jupiter.mp3" demo is pretty much that I'm looking for. Sound sound bright and full of energy but not too rough or dirty.

[relis]

Originally Posted by bebo

When the circuitry is different I expect differences. Otherwise how big is the difference between MKS-80 Rev5 and Jupiter-80 Rev1? See here: Roland Jupiter-80 v/s MKS-80 (Jupiter-8) : The Blind Test - YouTube

Close, but that doesn't prove anything. Going thru the MKS80 patches yesterday, I came to ones I could swear they were sounding identical to some Novation Supernova 2 sounds, I used to have. And I mean identical. So what? Move one knob on SN2 and you'll hear the difference immediately.

Still, it's fun to find two characterful polysynths sounding nearly identical at some settings, that is if they weren't made by the same manufacturer, at the same period of time nor using the same technology.

[kpatz]

Originally Posted by bebo

@kpatz: Well, your "Voyage to Jupiter.mp3" demo is pretty much that I'm looking for. Sound sound bright and full of energy but not too rough or dirty.

Thanks. I had to do some EQing because the MKS-80 dominates the mix, so multiple tracks of it were overwhelming without some cuts here and there. It's a versatile synth and it sounds great, but its strength definitely is leads and basses.

[Xero]

Originally Posted by bebo

The other things, people say, is that the MKS-80 excels when it comes to bass and lead sounds. But those sounds are played monophonic. Do I need a poly synth for mono sounds?

yes, it does excel at that. do you need a polysynth for mono sounds? No, but it's a nice package deal. Put it into split mode and you can use one half of it for bass and the other half for something else entirely, leads, pads, etc.

however, it only excels at certain kinds of bass. like, if you want super thick syrupy basslines with fast envelopes like a minimoog, it's not really for that. It's more for those high-speed arpeggiated basslines like in those madonna tracks posted above, as well as that dark bass sound that skinny puppy used to use all the time. It almost sounds like the kind of bass you'd get from a DX7 or something, but more analog and crunchy.

I always send this as my example:
http://soundcloud.com/portable-beat-box/mksbass

all mks-80 bass. Rev4, if that matters.

and yes, it is true that the Jupiter8, 6, Juno 6/60, MKS-80rev4 and later Jupiter 4's all shared the IR3109 filter chip. However, the chip itself is just 4 OTA stages, it is not implemented exactly the same in all of those synths. the jupiter 8 for example, lets you flip it between 12db and 24db, none of the others in that list had it setup that way.

[Disease Factory]

I need to fix my mks80 rev 5 and sell it, man the tuning knob got pushed in and it broke the circuit board it was attached to so it wont tune. I have to pull that board out and attempt to fix the board :( once i do that, i can happily sell it because its not my cup of tea :(