Affordable modular to get Minimoog like bass?

[living sounds]

I'm looking for deep, rich and really punchy (fast envelopes) bass of Minimoog like quality. I've concluded that besides the old Mini there really is no ready made synth (at least none that isn't super expensive as well).

So what would be the an affordable combination of the best modules to get this kind of bass? 2-3 oscillators, VCA, ladder filter, envelope and the usual stuff... Any sleepers? Secret gems?

What's the important part for punchy? Fast VCA or EG or both? I'd prefer discrete. DIY would be OK, too (Oakley?).

Thanks!

[laikenf]

Originally Posted by living sounds

I'm looking for deep, rich and really punchy (fast envelopes) bass of Minimoog like quality. I've concluded that besides the old Mini there really is no ready made synth (at least none that isn't super expensive as well).

So what would be the an affordable combination of the best modules to get this kind of bass? 2-3 oscillators, VCA, ladder filter, envelope and the usual stuff... Any sleepers? Secret gems?

What's the important part for punchy? Fast VCA or EG or both? I'd prefer discrete. DIY would be OK, too (Oakley?).

Thanks!

I think Ken McBeth's your man

[Rust Creep]

Uhhh the Moog minitaur... going modular for bass is like buying a grand piano to play 1 note at a time

Sent from my DROIDX using Gearslutz.com

[soundxplorer]

What's your definition of "affordable"?
Even the cheapest modular formats add up quickly and you'll hit the $2,000 mark faster than you think. And if that fits your idea of affordable then yeah, Ken MacBeth's new Micromac would do the job perfectly.

[cramseur]

I'm sorry, did he say "affordable modular"? Really? Oxymoronic.

What's your budget, pardner? I mean, what's affordable to you?

[living sounds]

The Macbeth looks interesting, but there's no price yet and it isn't availible right now.


I don't have much trust in Moog building something great sounding these days.

[steveman]

Getting the modular will cost just as much as one of those expensive synths, if not more - $200-300 a module + case + PSU. There's lots of bits in hardwired synths that people forget like multiple mixers, attenuators etc.
Far from being cheap, modular is probably the most expensive way to get a specific sound. Of course if you want to go modular and not have a life or any money, go for it.
Macbeth modules have real Moog, the daul oscillator is over $1k though. Oakley stuff sounds superb from what I've heard.

[living sounds]

Well, I can DIY a lot of the stuff - really everything in theory, but there doesn't seem to be a discrete Moog VCO DIY, the best from what I've heard is the Dotcom, and that one costs 180 EUR a piece I think. I don't know how fast the Oakley EG and VCA are (sonically) and how good they sound overall.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by living sounds

The Macbeth looks interesting, but there's no price yet and it isn't availible right now.


...

yes there is, do a search here in this forum
available soon, I gather
the MiniMac or Photon are the cheapest options.

[Dogboy73]

Originally Posted by living sounds

I don't have much trust in Moog building something great sounding these days.

Have you heard the Moog Minitaur demos? Sounds pretty bloody good.

[moneyforsluts]

The way I see it, you can be picky or you can be poor, if you want to try to be both, you'll never have a synth.

[Reptil]

minitaur and photon are both quite affordable.

it's never been so cheap to buy a brandnew analogue "minimoog" type sound.

[living sounds]

Originally Posted by moneyforsluts

The way I see it, you can be picky or you can be poor, if you want to try to be both, you'll never have a synth.

I've got plenty of synths already. :-)

But I don't intend to pay more than I have to. This is not rocket science. But somehow most manufacturers go for less than is possible. All the parts in these modules cost a few bucks only after all.

What about the offerings of analogue solutions?

[Yoozer]

MOS-Lab? Though the worst is that it's still not a Mini, and you can never convince yourself sufficiently that it is one.

Sooo.. join the dark side and buy a real one. We've got cool hats!

[soundxplorer]

Originally Posted by Dogboy73

Have you heard the Moog Minitaur demos? Sounds pretty bloody good.

Agreed. And if you're going to be picky enough to say that the Minitaur doesn't sound authentic, then you won't find a "cheap" road going modular. I'm not arguing whether it sounds like a vintage Moog or not, I'm just saying be prepared to pay a lot more if you want vintage-spec components (like MacBeth or MOS-LAB).

[living sounds]

It's not about "authentic". It's about "good". I just listened to the Minitaur demos (again), doesn't wow me.

I want a synth that produces a gut level low end punch with the filter almost closed. It should be possible with a few modules, from what I've heard the Dotcom modular can to it.

[soundxplorer]

Originally Posted by living sounds

All the parts in these modules cost a few bucks only after all.

So do you want them to sell their products at cost and ignore all their labor and overhead expenses?

Originally Posted by living sounds

from what I've heard the Dotcom modular can to it.

Then I'd say go for it, though I'm not sure what extra costs that would mean for you to import them overseas.
But here in the U.S. the dotcom line is actually one of the cheapest options and they offer a lot of bang for your buck.

[living sounds]

The SH101's EG/VCA produces that kind of punch BTW, but it hasn't got the big oscillators or the pure signal path.

Originally Posted by soundxplorer

So do you want them to sell their products at cost and ignore all their labor and overhead expenses?

Preferably I want a DIY solution. PCB, faceplate, maybe a few important parts. So I can select the best components for the rest. I know I'm picky. ;-)

Originally Posted by soundxplorer

So do you want them to sell their products at cost and ignore all their labor and overhead expenses?



Then I'd say go for it, though I'm not sure what extra costs that would mean for you to import them overseas.
But here in the U.S. the dotcom line is actually one of the cheapest options and they offer a lot of bang for your buck.

After all these are mostly slightly updated circuits people like Bob Moog invented in the 60s. At least that's the kind of module I want (don't need any fancy stuff, it's just bass I can use in my productions).

That Micromac really sounds pretty good!

[recnsci]

This would be your best bet if you want to go down the DIY route (and maybe best bet in general). However, due the most unfortunate events from few months ago, PCBs wont be available for some time. Maybe ask here if somebody wants to sell bords/kit.

[SWAN808]

Ive been thinking a similar thing.

I may be lynched for heresy...but Im not totally decided about the Macbeth Vortex. For the money - £1300 or £1500 INC VAT - I think its possible I could build a cheaper desktop Euro modular with fully modular functionality and great sound. Maybe £800 or 900...shopping around second hand...

The issue is - are there any Moog-Like modules (bar Macbeth) in Euro format to pull this off? Are Oakley VCO and filters available in Euro yet? They sound very nice when I hear them...But there is a lot more options in the larger size - Mos-Lab, Dotcom and I think MOTM...

Gregor - maybe you should speak to Roginator - he is a modular slut who has built his own (MOTM I think) as well as investing in Moog and EMU modulars. He has 2 Moog VCO rack for sale at the mo. So it depends on how much space you have...Im looking Euro format as Im struggling on space-otherwise I prob would have gone Dotcom a long time ago...great sound and reasonable price...

If you want snappy envelopes - you can look at Cwejman Env and VCA - and combine that with Moog-like Osc and filters...

Or you could look at the Oakley DIY stuff?

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by living sounds

But I don't intend to pay more than I have to. This is not rocket science. But somehow most manufacturers go for less than is possible. All the parts in these modules cost a few bucks only after all.

ah but try some DIY before you say something like that.
sourcing parts (the best ones) is a chore, and takes time.
that's why kit packages are more expensive than the raw PCB and parts.
time=money
then, there's assembly (Macbeth=through hole), and testing.
that's work too, and takes time.
that's what you pay for. a working module out of the box, not a bag of parts.

and then.. a few bucks?
for a normal eurorack module, count on 80€ (roughly 100$) incl. shipping.
faceplate and PCB being most expensive, after that the knobs, pots and ICs.
if you want good quality capacitors and resistors (better than most new modules) that's even more expensive.

and then, you need tools. good soldering iron, pincers, a frame to hold the modules, files, cutters, etc... a drill and saw is not a bad investment either.

still.. it's worth it. you'll be able to build great quality customised modules, and small mixers, switchers etc. with the best parts that you found somewhere back in a catalogus or on evilbay. better sound too.
and above all it gives a sense of pride, working with self made instruments.
even if the circuit sometimes remains a mystery.


for the moog stuff, really... check Macbeth and Minitaur. I don't know any PCB at this moment that allows to build a cheap but cool sounding Moog-ish module, at the moment... eehm yes some Oakley 5u oscillators and filters, but then you'll soon spend equal or more than ready made, IF you want a full synth. so it pays off in other designs. not this one ATM

[living sounds]

The Oakley stuff is definitely something I'm looking at. A lot of it still has too many ICs in there for my taste, but the transistor filter for example is something to keep in mind.


Cwejman - have heard the S1MK2 mostly, doesn't strike me as desireably sonically.

I'll ask Roginator to chime in however.

Thanks for the suggestions!

[soundxplorer]

Originally Posted by living sounds

After all these are mostly slightly updated circuits people like Bob Moog invented in the 60s.

So is the Minitaur. :shrug:

Originally Posted by living sounds

Cwejman - have heard the S1MK2 mostly, doesn't strike me as desireably sonically.

Cwejman is closer to the Roland in sound in my opinion. Like their little VM-1 module sounds straight up like an SH-101 to me.

[Franc]

Originally Posted by living sounds

The Macbeth looks interesting, but there's no price yet and it isn't availible right now.


I don't have much trust in Moog building something great sounding these days.

Who ever really used a modular for a Moog bass?
Donna Summer - I Feel Love (Patrick Cowley Megamix) - YouTube

Moroder did. You do not need a modular for good bass and fast envelopes.

Future Retro XS Overview
Play the demo.

or
SE-1X

[living sounds]

Originally Posted by Reptil

ah but try some DIY before you say something like that.
sourcing parts (the best ones) is a chore, and takes time.
that's why kit packages are more expensive than the raw PCB and parts.
time=money
then, there's assembly (Macbeth=through hole), and testing.
that's work too, and takes time.
that's what you pay for. a working module out of the box, not a bag of parts.

and then.. a few bucks?
for a normal eurorack module, count on 80€ (roughly 100$) incl. shipping.
faceplate and PCB being most expensive, after that the knobs, pots and ICs.
if you want good quality capacitors and resistors (better than most new modules) that's even more expensive.

and then, you need tools. good soldering iron, pincers, a frame to hold the modules, files, cutters, etc... a drill and saw is not a bad investment either.

still.. it's worth it. you'll be able to build great quality customised modules, and small mixers, switchers etc. with the best parts that you found somewhere back in a catalogus or on evilbay. better sound too.
and above all it gives a sense of pride, working with self made instruments.
even if the circuit sometimes remains a mystery.


for the moog stuff, really... check Macbeth and Minitaur. I don't know any PCB at this moment that allows to build a cheap but cool sounding Moog-ish module, at the moment... eehm yes some Oakley 5u oscillators and filters, but then you'll soon spend equal or more than ready made, IF you want a full synth. so it pays off in other designs. not this one ATM

I'm sitting here with several racks racks of high end DIY outboard and lot's of modded gear (including synths). ;-) I know stuff can sound better than most manufacturers make it because of that.

I don't see something like the Macbeth as overprized if it holds up sonically. I do see the Voyager as overprized and most modern synths as inferior sounding. I've become a snob, I know. ;-)

Anyway, I know where to source components, and which ones sound good etc., so building a module would only take a few hours if the faceplate can be bought with the PCB. And I only DIY where it makes sense, a discrete Moog oscillator that requires a lot of matching of transistors is not overprized at 180 EUR or so.

But right now I'm really looking for what sounds actually good between all these modules, and maybe there are inexpensive ones that fall into this category.

Originally Posted by Franc

Who ever really used a modular for a Moog bass?

I've tried the Future Retro and owned an SE-1. They're not in the same class. The SE-1 has the oscillators put neither the pure signal path nor the fast envelopes.

Originally Posted by soundxplorer

So is the Minitaur. :shrug:



Cwejman is closer to the Roland in sound in my opinion. Like their little VM-1 module sounds straight up like an SH-101 to me.

The Minitaur is most likely build around cheap monolytic op amps with surface mount parts using ceramic and tantalum caps everywhere. I know the Phatty is (I owned that one as well for some time). It follows from basic economics.


The VM-1's filter sounds very nice though. But can it deliver the 101's bass punch?

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by living sounds

I'm sitting here with several racks racks of high end DIY outboard and lot's of modded gear (including synths). ;-) I know stuff can sound better than most manufacturers make it because of that.

I don't see something like the Macbeth as overprized if it holds up sonically. I do see the Voyager as overprized and most modern synths as inferior sounding. I've become a snob, I know. ;-)

Anyway, I know where to source components, and which ones sound good etc., so building a module would only take a few hours if the faceplate can be bought with the PCB. And I only DIY where it makes sense, a discrete Moog oscillator that requires a lot of matching of transistors is not overprized at 180 EUR or so.

But right now I'm really looking for what sounds actually good between all these modules, and maybe there are inexpensive ones that fall into this category.

ah, I'm sorry, part of my post was obsolete
I haven't seen anything that would come close, except for Oakley raw PCBs and then fit that in a desktop (alu&plastic) box so you don't need front plates etc. http://www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
Paul Schreiber mailed me some part numbers of good pots (very kind!)
PM me if you want those.

[sovietpop]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Ive been thinking a similar thing.

I may be lynched for heresy...but Im not totally decided about the Macbeth Vortex. For the money - £1300 or £1500 INC VAT - I think its possible I could build a cheaper desktop Euro modular with fully modular functionality and great sound. Maybe £800 or 900...shopping around second hand...

The issue is - are there any Moog-Like modules (bar Macbeth) in Euro format to pull this off? Are Oakley VCO and filters available in Euro yet? They sound very nice when I hear them...But there is a lot more options in the larger size - Mos-Lab, Dotcom and I think MOTM...

Gregor - maybe you should speak to Roginator - he is a modular slut who has built his own (MOTM I think) as well as investing in Moog and EMU modulars. He has 2 Moog VCO rack for sale at the mo. So it depends on how much space you have...Im looking Euro format as Im struggling on space-otherwise I prob would have gone Dotcom a long time ago...great sound and reasonable price...

If you want snappy envelopes - you can look at Cwejman Env and VCA - and combine that with Moog-like Osc and filters...

Or you could look at the Oakley DIY stuff?

I've been thinking the same thing.
For about the same price of the Vortex i can get
this :

No keyboard of course and i don't need the cabinet so it is around 2100 for a DotCom modular (22 rack).
Is the Macbeth modules , synth really that good ? In know sound quality is subjective but for someone who want a pseudo Moog Modular of some kind what would be the better choice ?

Right now i cant decide between The Vortex and the DotCom.

[Reptil]

pfoei difficult.

[Franc]

Originally Posted by sovietpop

I've been thinking the same thing.
For about the same price of the Vortex i can get
this :

No keyboard of course and i don't need the cabinet so it is around 2100 for a DotCom modular (22 rack).
Is the Macbeth modules , synth really that good ? In know sound quality is subjective but for someone who want a pseudo Moog Modular of some kind what would be the better choice ?

Right now i cant decide between The Vortex and the DotCom.

What is weird is this looks just like the old Aries modulars.

Aries Modular
Early 1970s Aries Music Synthesizer Demo Record, Side 2 of 2 - YouTube
Aries 300 Music System | Vintage Synth Explorer

[living sounds]

Originally Posted by Reptil

ah, I'm sorry, part of my post was obsolete
I haven't seen anything that would come close, except for Oakley raw PCBs and then fit that in a desktop (alu&plastic) box so you don't need front plates etc. Modular Synthesizer Projects from Oakley Sound Systems
Paul Schreiber mailed me some part numbers of good pots (very kind!)
PM me if you want those.

Yes, Oakley looks like the best option for, and they're very reasonably priced, too. Maybe combine that with 2 modules from other manufacturers...

Oakley had announced a three oscillator standalone synth several times, but it never saw the light of day.

This looks like a very cool DIY project, too:

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/i...W=1373&VPH=625

I doubt it sounds very Moogish and it's full of ICs, but there's potential to try out different components (I even considered building discrete OTAs) and it's very inexpensive as well and comes with a nice faceplate. Might build one as well...

Thanks, I'll mail you about the pots!

Something else I really like about Oakley is that they have a nice website and proper demos to listen to.