First VA or analogue synth buy, comparing contenders, your help is appreciated.

[Rimwolf]

Originally Posted by satellitedog

Thanks, though I found the mopho a bit aggressive sounding.
How about a Tetra?

Tetra is essentially 4 Mophos in one box.

[satellitedog]

Thanks for the info!
Whew...

Lots and lots of interesting synths.

So what are the Creamware ASB synths? Vintagesynth doesn't seem to have info on those.

[realtrance]

JP8000 and MS2000 are both wonderful choices, in my opinion. Both serious, solid instruments, designed at the height of the period of enthusiasm for VA keyboards.

You can get more "features" and integration on newer keyboards, but those are likely to be just distracting for a newbie.

Ultranova is the one new keyboard I'd recommend to you, it sounds lovely, is easy to start with and has plenty of capability, and the keybed is quite nice.

JP8000 is still more "one knob per function" in style, though; the UN can get complex to learn how to program quickly.

Agreed that the Gaia feels like a cheap toy, plus the sound design for Roland synths across the board has gotten really crappy in recent years.

[derekf208]

Has any one mentioned a Radias?

[satellitedog]

Not yet, but yeah it was on the menu some time ago too. I don't remember what I didn't like about it, so I'll have to check the prices.

Honestly, synthesizers probably won't become the main writing instrument, as I love guitars too much, and love the instant satisfaction an acoustic guitar can provide. However it will provide direction in aesthetics and production. I wonder how it will change my writing habits, but I guess it will be similar to buying a looper pedal and experiencing the possibilities of layering weird atmospheric guitar sounds and finding various melodies and riffs in the process...

Hm... going to be exciting.

[realtrance]

Whatever you end up getting, don't pay too much, and then just be happy with it.

I've learned over many years it's not the instrument, it's the musician.

Liszt used to play on rinky-dink pianos in bars to impress the ladies.

[satellitedog]

Thank you for your wisdom.

[synthguy]

Personally, I find Nord keyboards to be too bright sounding, especially the Lead synths - other than the NL3, which is a little warmer sounding but crazy expensive.

The MS2000 is a decent synth, but it's only four voice.

The JP-8000 is nice, has eight note polyphony and dual mode, but I think the MS2000 sounds warmer and a bit more analog. Plus some things like setting velocity is hidden in an odd function, and it only has chorus/delay and EQ effects. It does do a few things nothing else will do.

The Ion is my choice thanks to the WIDE variety of filter types available - two at a time and three OSCs - and eight voice poly. Plus it has 512 patches on board, and the menu system is pretty easy to navigate. The effects are decent too, nice vocoder.

The AN-1x is a little klunky due to the menu interface and only ten knobs, but it is a very good sounding VA, and has great multieffects. 10 voice poly.

If you can get one though, I highly suggest you get the Radias. It doesn't sound as Moogy as the Ion, but you can get darn close, and it has crazy depths of soundmaking power. The variable filter is matchless. 24 voices, real good effects and up to four layers! Plus a four octave keyboard too.

[satellitedog]

Thanks, synthguy!

The Radias seems to be a keeper as I only found one on ebay...

Also they are above my budget.

The MS 2000, Ion, JP 8000 and NL2 are still in the race, also some rarer stuff that wouldn't be a natural choice.

[SLiC]

Before spending a lot of money on hardware analogue, make sure you check out Diva VSTi (U-He) first; its about as close as a VSTi gets to sound analogue, and maybe close enough!

If you want a VA synth, you can't go far wrong with the Akai Miniak, they have an amazing feature set for the money and area availbale NEW for £220 in the UK.

MINIAK VIRTUAL ANALOG SYNTHESIZER WITH VOCODER

I just bought one and I'm having a lot of fun, nice sounds with a great sequencer/drum machine, features like 'analogue drift', 8 part mult etc. Well worth a look. Also take a look at second hand 'Alesis Fusion', they have a VA engine in (similar to ion/miniak) and a sampler, sequencer, FM etc etc. These go for silly money on ebay as they are not trendy, but I still use my Fusion 8HD all the time and I have seen them go on ebay for £250-350.

[synthguy]

I forgot about the Fusion. It's like a mega-Ion workstation, with a physical modeling synth (woodwind and... another model ), massive sample library, built in hard drive you can record 8 audio tracks on, and plays quite a few voices, average 120 or so depending on the voice complexity, and pretty good effects too.

The Miniak is essentially a slightly refined Ion with fewer knobs and a smaller keyboard, so it's a good choice if you don't mind a short keyboard.

[Bullseye]

I have been playing keyboards for...well...long enough lets just say. As far as monosynths go you simply do not need a full size keyboard.

It is extraordinarily rare that any melodic part will traverse more than 3 octaves and most will be within an octave or have some intervals well within 2 octaves. At a certain point, as the intervals increase your ear's ability to decipher the notes being part of a linear melody decreases.

This is neither scientific or a hard and fast rule, it is merely observational. You may feel otherwise and certainly others have experimented widely with the concept.

The point is if you are playing lead, bass or even accompaniment lines, the are so designated in large part because of the register they are in. So, given that a mono synth will have some sort of octave control, possibly going higher and lower than most other instruments, the smaller keyboard is not an issue, or at least is shouldn't be.

Also, with used gear the market may dictate what is available. Personally I like the sound of Moog and would seriously be considering a Little Phatty.

[satellitedog]

-Thanks Bullseye, the Moog SP and LP are both over my budget.
As for the keyboard, I would be content with a three octave one.

At the moment there's an Yamaha AN1x for less than 300 Euros, that I find pretty ugly, but it sounds cool and is praised by many.

-The Miniak is seems overpriced to me, even if it's a more practical interface design than its predecessor the Micron (which I don't care for at all)

-The Alesis Fusion is just terribly ugly in my opinion and I wouldn't like to look at it, in comparison the Ion is handsome. :-) Sorry, the Fusion might be a great instrument, but to me an SH-9, ARP Odissey an Oberheim SEM or Two-8 Voice are the prettiest in their simple industrial looking casings.

[samsam]

My 2c:

I've got 3 excellent soft-synths and I needed a new MIDI controller so I decided to kill 2 birds with one stone and get a hardware synth instead of simply a MIDI controller.

I ended up getting a Nord Wave, which is way over your budget but shares similar sound engine with the Lead and a very similar knobby interface. The 4 octaves are one smaller than I'd like as my main keyboard but it's livable and the interface is just soooo inspirational. For the first time I'm actually enjoying synthesis and playing an instrument.

So if you like the Nord sound, as a tangible, tactile instrument, it's a winner.

[satellitedog]

I'm not sure I know the Nord sound yet :-)

I'll have to listen some more...

I was wondering if I should get the Arturia Analog Experience Laboratory (4 octave controller) and later buy a rack version of one of the aforementioned VA-s?

[dlmorley]

The Gaia sounds pretty good to me.
Certainly a very useable synth for little outlay. With the extra software it's actually fun to use.
Some nice extras too like a 16ch GM synth via midi...

[satellitedog]

Thank you Morley, but I'd rather buy a JP 8000 or a 8080 than a Gaia, unless the price is really great. I actually really dig the sound of the 8080 too.

[bug2342]

Originally Posted by satellitedog

It's not clear to me what the Creamware boxes are actually... I've seen some pics and watched a demo of the Prodissey.
Are they VA synths with analogue imitating interfaces, or actual analogue synths replicating the classics?

The Creamware boxes are pure VAs. Basically creamware took their softsyths (wich where running on a dedicated DSP card) and put them in a case that had hand on controls and kind of looked like the original device that was cloned. They do sound very good. Just for a rough reference: These synths are more or less the ancestors of the Solaris.

I can´t give you the details of operation, since I only have a cheap Use Audio Plugiator (Same algorithms, different company, tons of fun with intellectual property, but I think in the end it turned out to be legal).

Some reviews:
Search SOS Articles Database

The DSP-card versions of the synths (page is partially in German)
Plug-Ins Sonic Core

[satellitedog]

Hey Bug, thanks for the info! Okay that is not what I’m looking for at the moment :-)

Incredible, but today morning a JP 8080 surfaced locally, half a day after I listened to an awesome demo of it for the first time. Bit too expensive, but I’ll have to compare it to regular going prices.


EDIT: It is overpriced, but local and it doesn't say it's a fixed price. Hm.

[synthguy]

A couple of things going for the JP-8080 are that it plays 10 note poly, and it has a distortion that some people really like.

[satellitedog]

Thanks for the info!

[Woody Aki]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

The Gaia sounds pretty good to me.
Certainly a very useable synth for little outlay. With the extra software it's actually fun to use.
Some nice extras too like a 16ch GM synth via midi...

Wow...coming from an analogue nut like you Dave, that's an eye-opener.
Not that I was closed-minded or anything, but it was still a nice surprise.

Having said that, do you dabble in the odd soft synth? Please don't kill me!

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

Wow...coming from an analogue nut like you Dave, that's an eye-opener.
Not that I was closed-minded or anything, but it was still a nice surprise.

Having said that, do you dabble in the odd soft synth? Please don't kill me!

I wouldn't trade my Prophet 5 for a Gaia (!!) but it's a useable and decent sounding synth. It has a certain "fake" side to the sound BUT that isn't a negative. Easy to program and the software displays stuff nicely. I prefer it to the older Roland VA stuff.
Anyway, for the money, it's a great little synth with some cool features.

[Woody Aki]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

I wouldn't trade my Prophet 5 for a Gaia...

Thought you wouldn't!
Judging by the non-reply to the latter question, you wouldn't be seen dead next to a VSTi, I suppose...

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

Thought you wouldn't!
Judging by the non-reply to the latter question, you wouldn't be seen dead next to a VSTi, I suppose...

I actually have Tassman.
It;s quite cool, but I'm an old fart and still prefer buttons and knobs!

[Woody Aki]

If old farts do music of your ilk, then fart away!
Still taking the modular route I see...have you ever tried U-He's Ace?

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

If old farts do music of your ilk, then fart away!
Still taking the modular route I see...have you ever tried U-He's Ace?

Thanks!
No I haven't. Should I?

[Woody Aki]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

Thanks!
No I haven't. Should I?

Well, at the risk of selling coals to Newcastle, you should.

U-He at the moment are riding on a wave with the release of Diva (just purchased it yesterday - effing stunning!), and Ace (Any Cable Everywhere) was their idea of a modular-ish VSTi. I think Gareth Jones has a special copy without a preset facility (on his request) and loves it, which, coming from a hardcore analoghead like him, is some endorsement!

U-He have an amazing, analog literate team, and they're really open to the sort of precious feedback guys like you can give them. I suggest that you demo the stuff and let them know where they're at...