Native Instruments - What happened to you?

[Synchronix]

Hi there, long time lurker, very part-time poster here. I have had a very poor experience with Native Instruments and I wanted to hear from others who have shared similar experiences.

First of all, I want to say I want to like this company and be able to invest in their products (from a practical perspective, I really like FM8, Reaktor and use TSP all the time and have spent about 1800$ on their products), however, they have treated me with absolute disrespect.

Here's my story in a nutshell:

I bought Maschine (full version) about a year ago, didn't really get on with the flow (I use a lot of hardware, it was brutal being tethered to a computer), so I sold it on eBay recently and bought a Tempest instead. Benjamin from Native Instruments gathered my information from me and was preparing to transfer the license to the new user when he pulled this card, he said "We cannot transfer the Maschine to the new user without also removing your Komplete 8 Crossgrade(!!!).

Needless to say I was shocked, not only because altogether I only saved about 75$ getting the crossgrade versus Komplete 8, but because I had no idea that by getting the K8 crossgrade it voided my ability to transfer my Maschine (!!!) license? I didn't sign a service agreement with that stipulation? Or in other words, WHAT THE **** IS THIS?

I sent an e-mail back to Benjamin, explaining my case and asked him a couple questions, and he completely ignored what I said and sent almost the exact same e-mail back to me without addressing any of my questions or concerns? I have never been treated like this by any company, so I did a little more research online and learned that:

- They have an F rating with the Better Business Bureau
- People have frequently had trouble getting their questions or concerns addressed.
- People have spent 1+ hours on the phone on hold and then eventually are hung up on.

Gearslutz, Did NI eat itself into a corporate oblivion? How can Daniel (The CEO/Developer) supposedly be such a great guy when he is the one treating his customers like this? What can I do?

Needless to say, I am profoundly disappointed..

[Rogue Ai]

I'm glad to say that I haven't wasted a single cent on one of their products.

[Synchronix]

Originally Posted by Rogue Ai

I'm glad to say that I haven't wasted a single cent on one of their products.

I wish I had not bought Komplete 8 and bought:

TX81Z, Alpha Juno 2 & that Audio Damage chorus (really nice plugin)

For an extra 100$ probably would have bought Tassman..

[Bilinear]

I have Maschine and bought K8 as a crossgrade as well. I'm not really finding much time for Maschine so considered selling, but assumed if I did I would have to sell K8 with it. I'm cool with that, it was good price, makes sense.

[Synchronix]

Originally Posted by Bilinear

I have Maschine and bought K8 as a crossgrade as well. I'm not really finding much time for Maschine so considered selling, but assumed if I did I would have to sell K8 with it. I'm cool with that, it was good price, makes sense.

You're oh so very wrong, look on your Komplete 8 Crossgrade box (not for resale). I was under the assumption I could sell just the Maschine (which I paid full price for, not an academic or otherwise).

Anyway, I filed a formal complaint, so I will see how it will turn out. All I can say, this is really bad business.

[Elogical4now]

I like some of their software and I use it in my projects on a regular basis.

I will never buy hardware from them again. I had three Maschine units go bad. After the third one I demanded my money back. They refused. Fortunately, the retailer finally agreed to refund my money.

Their Customer Support was a joke. Glad to be done with them.

[AikiGhost]

Originally Posted by Rogue Ai

I'm glad to say that I haven't wasted a single cent on one of their products.

Me either, and I own both Maschine and Komplete 7

[ohmicide]

the fact that transferring the license would void your cross-grade actually makes complete sense, but the fact that they won't do anything to help you leaves a lot to wonder about them.

At least they somewhat tried to help you, I tried contacting StillWell about a simple license transfer and I never got a response, even after a few attempts. Luckily I ended up never selling the plug-in, but if I would have then I would have had a big problem with StillWell, so I feel your pain.

So far the software company with the best costumer support I've dealt with is Ableton. These guys seem like they'd bend over backwards for you if you asked.

I actually just bought Komplete 8 and so far so good. I hope I never have to deal with the costumer support though, all I've heard about it is bad news.

[hubiedubie]

Originally Posted by Synchronix

Needless to say I was shocked, not only because altogether I only saved about 75$ getting the crossgrade versus Komplete 8, but because I had no idea that by getting the K8 crossgrade it voided my ability to transfer my Maschine (!!!) license? I didn't sign a service agreement with that stipulation? Or in other words, WHAT THE **** IS THIS?

Standard practice with software licenses. Anytime you buy an upgrade or crossgrade and get a 'deal' based on owning a product, you are generally compelled to sell everything that was involved in you getting each license. I'm not saying it's right but it is the norm. Propellerheads and Ableton all have similar policies.
I've found NI support a little slow but generally helpful once you get through.

[Synchronix]

Originally Posted by hubiedubie

Standard practice with software licenses. Anytime you buy an upgrade or crossgrade and get a 'deal' based on owning a product, you are generally compelled to sell everything that was involved in you getting each license. I'm not saying it's right but it is the norm. Propellerheads and Ableton all have similar policies.
I've found NI support a little slow but generally helpful once you get through.

You know, I would understand if this was made clear during the activation so that I was forewarned and could then return the product if I didn't want to agree to that term, but in this case, they didn't address any of my valid questions I asked and simply said, we can delete your 400$+ product and that's it.

It is very shady business practices, and in this economy and internet market where the majority of users aren't even buying the software in the first place (See John Dahlback for a prime example..), they should at least be trying to retain their current customers and be reasonable instead of being ambiguous with service agreements.

The simple fact is, they ignored me, didn't offer any alternative (Even if they said the full version of Komplete 9 is 499$, you paid 425$ so pay us 75$ more for the full version and we're good, that would be okay with me) and they are holding my already sold copy of Maschine hostage to my software.

Not acceptable.

[enossified]

I have Absynth 4 and they refused to even answer my question because I was using Mac OS 10.6. They told me that OS wasn't supported, upgrade to Absynth 5 first ($80). The question? Why I couldn't open up a Kore Pack of Absynth sounds inside Absynth (it worked fine in my XP laptop). I eventually figured it out myself...it was just a path issue...but I couldn't believe they wouldn't help me unless I upgraded first.

Then they discontinued Kore, orphaning all the Kore packs I had bought. Their suggestion was to pay $$$$ to upgrade to Maschine...which doesn't support Kore packs anyway.

Eff You See Kay NI.

[dhollmusik]

Originally Posted by Synchronix

I have had a very poor experience with Native Instruments and I wanted to hear from others who have shared similar experiences.

They're not very reliable in their communications. I applied for a job with them, went through a bunch of tests and ostensibly got the job, but for cost-cutting reasons they decided to combine two positions into one (and I could only offer the skills required for the one which I applied for).

I wouldn't have minded if this was communicated to me in an honest timely fashion, but it took months until I finally got a straight answer out of them. All that while I was under the impression I would be starting with them at any time.

Terrible communication skills, bordering, as you say, on downright disrespectful. But they do offer very good products.

[MimikOctopus]

Ouch, I've had that happen several times actually (job description changes, not related to NI) it really sucks, especially if you go through a testing process (I'm a designer, I have a feeling I've done a lot of free work under the guise of an interview/practical skill assessment). I don't do them anymore unless I'm sure it's a generic type thing and not "hey make 4 logos for our company we want to see your range of skills"..... "sure give me 50% of my freelance rate up front and I can do that, I'll take the other 50% when you pick the logo you're going to use", *silence*.....

[datune]

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. It's weird, I have a totally different perception of them. Just last week I called inquiring about a Kontakt related issue, and the guy on the phone spent about 25 minutes talking and reasoning with me, free of charge of course!

Perhaps try calling them directly? You may have simply had some bad luck with the person who is working on your ticket? I dunno...

[Skully124]

I had equally bad support, i got a free maschine mikro expansion and it took about 3 weeks after purchasing the said expansion's activation code to be sent to my email, i love NI's products, customer support/service not so much.

[ughbaw]

well

they make some really great products...and the updates are always p prompt. question on the forum get answered p quickly. i like them imho.

[zerocrossing]

Originally Posted by Synchronix

I bought Maschine (full version) about a year ago, didn't really get on with the flow (I use a lot of hardware, it was brutal being tethered to a computer)

If that's what you call brutal, the rest of your life must be cake and pies.

Originally Posted by Synchronix

so I sold it on eBay recently and bought a Tempest instead. Benjamin from Native Instruments gathered my information from me and was preparing to transfer the license to the new user when he pulled this card, he said "We cannot transfer the Maschine to the new user without also removing your Komplete 8 Crossgrade(!!!).

Of course. You got a special price for Komplete 8 (I did too) because you were a Maschine owner. Why do you think you should be able to get the bonus without holding up your part of that transaction? Perhaps it is you who are treating NI with disrespect. Sneakily buying their hardware to get a software discount and then selling the hardware, only to abscond with the profit!

Originally Posted by Synchronix

Needless to say I was shocked, not only because altogether I only saved about 75$ getting the crossgrade versus Komplete 8, but because I had no idea that by getting the K8 crossgrade it voided my ability to transfer my Maschine (!!!) license? I didn't sign a service agreement with that stipulation? Or in other words, WHAT THE **** IS THIS?

Only $75? That doesn't seem right unless you already owned current versions of all their stuff. Might want to check your math. Also, yes, you did "sign" a service agreement. Remember when it said, "Clicking agree means you..." That was it. Don't read ULAs? No one does. That doesn't mean you're not bound by them.

Originally Posted by Synchronix

Needless to say, I am profoundly disappointed..

How do you think they feel? They thought they had a new faithful customer of something they worked really hard on, and instead they just had someone who was trying to benefit from a special deal without holding up their part of the bargain. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[ezelkow1]

Recently purchased reaktor from someone over on kvr. It took ~12 emails and 2 weeks until it was completely transferred. The reaktor version was based on r3, then with 2 serials for the r4 and r5 upgrades, and they wont transfer just an upgrade serial by policy.

So it took them 3 days to remove a serial number from the owners account, but they only removed the r5 serial, against their own policy and completely useless to a new owner. After that they never responded to any of the sellers emails, as I said he sent around 12, just to try to get them to remove the r3 and r4 serials so I could use them. He tried calling the USA support line and the USA one refuses to deal with any license transfers over the phone. He then managed to get in touch with the EUR support and in the end they helped and removed the serial numbers.

Either way, absolutely no responses to any of his emails for something that takes them 5 seconds to do is just ridiculous. I even emailed them asking if there was anything they could do, and their actual response to me was 'Contact the seller and get your money back'. That seemed completely uncalled for, even after I explained the entire situation they just told me they couldnt help and to get my money back.

Even after I got the serials I had to wait another 1.5 weeks just to get a full installer download file since the only ones they place in your account are upgrade installers, which refuse to install the library if you dont have a previous full installation. Their own support didnt even know this so they ended up creating a download link for me. I just cant comprehend how their own support would not understand that you cannot use an upgrade installer on top of a reaktor player installer since it just wont install the library.

</rant>

tldr;
Their support is ridiculously bad when it comes to transfers, and inept at many other things as well. It didnt used to be this way, I bought 2 other NI synths 2nd hand over the past year or two, and the purchase of those was done within a day. However I sold one only a few months ago, and that transfer took a week, so it seems like its a fairly recent issue with them

[Breaks Dude]

Hmmm...well...I've been buying their products since 2001 or so. I am looking at my Spectral Delay and Reaktor V2.3 boxes as I type this. I own almost every piece of software they make and yes there are some limitations. I did sell my (downloaded version) Massive license the other day and the process was very smooth for both me and the buyer. You need to read the EULAs on these things. Some things like powered by Kontakt products cannot be transferred. Benjamin has always been helpful but he seems to cut and paste from the NI EULA most of the time. At times I do ask some questions that do not get a reply BUT I can usually connect the dots and resolve the problem.

I wonder if he's the only guy over there sometimes.

But this isn't as bad a Spectrasonics who won't let you transfer ANYTHING. I simply refuse to buy their products for that reason alone.

[TitusRaindrops]

This sort of thing has been posted about NI for years, most notably on their own forums! All you have to do is go directly to the NI site and you'll read pages and pages of the same sort of complaints.

I guess those of us who choose to buy from them do so with this in mind. I have low/no expectations of ever getting any service from them and so, when that's exactly what I get from them, I am still able to live without major disappointment in this particular area of my life.

On the other hand, I recently sold my Ableton Live 8 license and with it went my Lite version that I had upgraded from. It's stated in plain English in their license transfer FAQ. It seemed reasonable to me at the time.

However, I can understand your concern here and it's good to post this just so others are aware that with some companies and with certain products, even products that include hardware, if you use that product to crossgrade or upgrade to something else, the licenses may become inextricably combined. Forever.

I have Maschine and was considering the crossgrade too. Now, not so much. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[Synchronix]

Originally Posted by zerocrossing

If that's what you call brutal, the rest of your life must be cake and pies.

I actually work very hard for my money.. thank you very much.

Only $75? That doesn't seem right unless you already owned current versions of all their stuff. Might want to check your math. Also, yes, you did "sign" a service agreement. Remember when it said, "Clicking agree means you..." That was it. Don't read ULAs? No one does. That doesn't mean you're not bound by them.

425$ + Tax from Long & Mcquade. You've gotta remember Canadians don't pay American prices.. ever. We do get health care though.. that is pretty sweet.

How do you think they feel? They thought they had a new faithful customer of something they worked really hard on, and instead they just had someone who was trying to benefit from a special deal without holding up their part of the bargain. You should be ashamed of yourself.

The only thing I am ashamed of myself for is not getting a:

TX81Z, Alpha Juno 2 + Plugin for the same $

[Synchronix]

Originally Posted by ughbaw

they make some really great products...and the updates are always p prompt. question on the forum get answered p quickly. i like them imho.

I really like FM8, Reaktor and TSP. I use them all regularly. I just despise how they treat their customers.

[Synchronix]

Update: Sent NI Customer Service an email offering the difference in price between my Crossgrade (425$ CDN) and the full version retail (499$) to resolve this mess.

[Funk Fiction]

i think zerocrossing might be an NI attorney or salesman or both.

also, the people who develop the NI software and products have nothing to do with their customer service or overall business.

[the_gof]

Originally Posted by Elogical4now

I like some of their software and I use it in my projects on a regular basis.

I will never buy hardware from them again. I had three Maschine units go bad. After the third one I demanded my money back. They refused. Fortunately, the retailer finally agreed to refund my money.

Their Customer Support was a joke. Glad to be done with them.

Why *would* they give you your money back? You didn't buy it from them. It's entirely down to the merchant to refund you

[Parametex]

I bough the razor but the installation bugged out (win7) ... tried to fix it with their helpdesk on multiple occasion but it was like talking to a automated answering machine and in the end I never got it working as they stopped replying me ...

Ans yes, I've had a computer for over 25 years, I know how to install a bloody program.

[Tvtan]

Have had many issues with this company, I own komplete 5,6 & 7 + kore2 and a few sound packs.
To cut a long story short, the Kore mess, the long trail of great instruments and hardware just discarded with a total disregard for their customers, their lack of communication and extreme arrogance has ensured that I will never spend another penny with this bunch of jokers. Great products, absolutely diabolical customer service. Steer well clear.

[kcearl]

I own quite a few NI products, I think they are outstanding...fair enough support could be better (Ive heard) but there are thousands of satisfied customers and their products are used everywhere...for a reason, theyre good

[jasyr]

not happy with Kore decision, but my support experience with them since 2007 has been good, (being not in the usa.)

[greggybud]

As a NI user since 1999, i have a love hate relationship...like several others here. I have dealt with some really good people there. But they are growing fast. That often brings many issues...mostly negative. Lack of accountability on the consumer marketing level leaves a lot to be desired.

I really wonder what NI will look like in 5 years. I hope reaktor survives, but they clearly are marketing products for a much wider general population. They dumped kore i feel for this reason...