Login / Register
 
Whats your workflow w/vintage samplers and analog synths/drum machines?
New Reply
Subscribe
J Gabriel
Thread Starter
#1
18th January 2012
Old 18th January 2012
  #1
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 278

Thread Starter
Send a message via Skype™ to J Gabriel
J Gabriel is offline
Whats your workflow w/vintage samplers and analog synths/drum machines?

Hey ya'll, been making electronic music for 10+ yrs and until the past few was mainly ITB. I've been lucky in being able to acquire a mostly hardware setup now featuring:

Juno 60
CS-10
Roland R-8
ASR 10
Neve 3014 EQ/pres
Summit Stereo Compressor
Apogee Rosetta

I use ableton for some midi sequencing, tracking/arranging and various VST plugs for FX and some subtractive EQ.

Gotten really great results with sampled Drums completely ITB but would love to have them in the ASR and get em tight together by recording through the signal chain above. There are 2 solutions for this that I can see, use Chicken Systems or just record the out from the DAW through the Rosetta and into the ASR. I've struggled to get chicken systems working...

How are you using your hardware sampler in conjunction with your analogue gear and what have you found to get the best results? Of course I'll be continuing to experiment and see what works best for me, but curious to see what others are using a similar setup and how you go about constructing your tracks. I'd love to have Silent Way or Volta to sequence the analogs in real time, but for now sampling/realtime playing will do.
Cheers,
- Joseph
#2
18th January 2012
Old 18th January 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,640

fooddude is offline
Good topic. I've aways wondered others' workflow with limited old samplers, and also if that's their only option being 100% hardware/otb.

I am a n00b, just started 1 year ago. But, never have been itb. Started with all hardware and plan to keep it this way.

My setup:
MPC60
S950
ESQ1
Juno60
Matrix1000
TX81Z
Mackie 1604 vlzpro
Electrix FF
SDE-1000
MV2
DP2
3630
All recorded to Otari 5050b2hd
Then archive the tape into laptop, through Firebox and into Audacity.

For my typical sample workflow, I just have a bunch of samples in my MBP, boths drums, fx and also from my vinyl collection which I archived into digital into the mbp. Whenever I need to put some samples into the mpc60 or s950, I just use my laptop as a piece of hardware/tape player/turntable/etc - open it up in Audacity, trim/chop it, and just plug in the outs of my Firebox into the inputs of my mpc60/s950 and sample away ...I've gotten so quick at sampling this way it almost becomes subconscious. Sometimes I can punch in the numbers/dials without even looking at every menu screen. Basic sampling the mpc60 takes me about 3-10 seconds per, and the s950 takes me 5-20 seconds per sample (since there is the extra "program" step in the S series); pretty darn quick I must say.

BUT, there is still something I haven't done yet, am brainstorming and figuring out how to do - Sampling/recording/resampling LIVE while the mpc60 sequencer is playing and also midi-playing all my other synths, and/or Multitracking or looping live elements while the mpc60 is playing (rhodes, Vox, acapellas, clavinet, non-midi synth, mic'd percussions or aucoustic instruments, etc., etc). DAW would be a breeze; but, I as well as others are all hardware; and this topic is vintage samplers too, so I'll keep in-topic.

Ie: say I have my mpc60 playing in song or seq mode I am working on, with all my synths playing its' already programmed notes, sampled drums, and everything else. Now, lets's say I have a vocalist coming in to drop some rhythm vox to be chopped up into the song, or even longer 4-8 bar vocals. Also, lets say I also wanted to mic up some live congas and enter it into the same song too. And, lastly, maybe even include some live clavinet 2-4 bar loops into the song. How would I do this with my 100% hardware set-up??? A looper is one option. Another option would be to hook up those mics and clavinet to the input on the S950; but, timing and especially editing might be too difficult while the entire mpc60 sequence is playing. I also was trying to figure out a way to patch some some live stuff or synths into my S950 via maybe different out or the monitor outs, etc to make use of my other fx patched into my aux's and sub-busses, while the mpc was playing; But, that's not possible, as the entire mixer will truly be busy mixing all the midi-playing/programmed synths as well along with the mpc drums/sequence/song. Sooo.. what is the best option then? I just thought of this a few days ago - simple, just use my laptop as a recorder, seperate from and while the mpc60 is playing with all the other midi-d synths through my mackie mixer. Duh! Ie: mic or plug in whatever electro-acoustic inst straight-up into my Firebox/laptop and hit record in Audacity, at the same time my mpc60 is playing. Basically treating my "live" elements, vox, instruments as if I was archiving a vinyl record. Then, after all recorded, and perhaps in better timing than recording straight into the S950 I bet, I can chop/trim it up precisely in audacity for better timing/groove against the current song/project, just like I do with my vinyl record samples, and re-enter/resample it into the mpc60 or s950; to finally enter those new live elements into the song, and midi'd too no less. S950 has a lot of sample time too. Now, everything I have just played live or sung is now midi'd up and entered into the current mpc60's project/song, as well as having a nice 12-bit fx grit added to it.

I know the other option to this is a midi Looper rack/pedal. But, that costs more money and also the added extra workflow with yet another piece of gear, and also the added archiving/data/storage for the extra piece of gear(looper; basically a sampler in a diff way) is another issue and something I want to avoid. I want to avoid adding anymore extra things that require archiving even more stuff, storage/memory/data/disks/sd cf cards/etc.
Quote
1
mp3
#3
18th January 2012
Old 18th January 2012
  #3
mp3
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 978

mp3 is offline
Well a lot depends on what you want to do and how you want to do it.

Assuming you want to sample and mangle your synths/drum machines (along with any plugin instruments, optionally routing them through your outboard analog gear) with the sampler, then get a patchbay, hook everything into it, and use it to switch between monitoring your sound source directly (thru your soundcard or mixer) and feeding it into your sampler.

Once the sampling and mangling is done (the ASR is a fantastic sampler for that - make sure you check out the transwave and crossfade looping functionality in addition to its deep modulation capabilities (including polyAT!)), and assuming that your DAW is the master sequencer, then its as simple as recording the audio output of the ASR (through your outboard again if you wish) into the DAW.

Patchbay man, its a samplist's best friend.
Quote
1
#4
18th January 2012
Old 18th January 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
7 Hz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,235

7 Hz is offline
I have been getting together a basic setup to do a live gig early next month. This is a small friendly affair in a cafe, but a good focus for me to get tracks together. So far I have done covers / remixes of classic tracks, good for getting into the flow I feel.

My live setup is:

Sequentix Cirklon
Emu Emax
Korg MS10

Mono out from Emax, mono out from MS10.

Couldn't get much more basic, but I have been really enjoying getting tracks together with this setup. I have a bunch of other gear I sample live (Jupiter 6, Pro One, decks etc).

Workflow is usually:

Get drum samples together in computer - usually 2 kicks, snare, clap / rim, hat, one or two other pieces. Sometimes I'll layer a sound (esp snares / claps) in the computer and mixdown to a single sample.

Export to Compact Flash card via EMXP software (the best!)

Put CF card in Emax (has CF SCSI), sequence basic drums.

Sequence MS10.

Sample and add anything else I need - Jupiter chords, decks etc.

Get mix together in Emax - filters, levels etc.

Jam out track with mutes, filters etc.

Done!

I can get a track going in a couple of hours no problem. The limitation is great in a way, no faffing about with EQ or compression post sampler, just get it right in the first place, redo it if I'm not happy with something. Cirklon is a revelation for having fun again sequencing!
#5
19th January 2012
Old 19th January 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
dan p's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: san ramon ca
Posts: 1,442

dan p is offline
Aye, running a hybrid setup;
Synths:
Access Virus
MiniMoog Model D>mpu104
Prophet 08 rack
Roland 760-750 samplers
Korg Tr rack
E mu morpheus with 18 bit
Stylus RMX
Ivory
All running thru motu 2408mk3/24i/o>line inputs to toft 32 channel>GR mp2nv.
everything plugged in and ready to go go.
Avalon and summit pres for flavor

Live setup is a KRZ pc88
Roland D-50
Nord lead rack2
Coming:More ram for my computer,DP7,Lass Strings,Lexicon Native plug-ins
It never ends.Someone always has more but then its the candy store....
#6
19th January 2012
Old 19th January 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,640

fooddude is offline
Anyone else using only/primarily vintage floppy-driven or low-sample-time-12-bit samplers and sequencers?

I'd love to hear your workflow and any special tricks around their limited features and limited sample times (ie: remixes, re-edits, live sampling while seq is playing, multitracking, adding live elements/vox/instruments, etc. to the mix computer/daw-less, etc.).

Remixes and re-edits are pretty difficult and/or tedious on old limited-time samplers (I know DAW would be a breeze; but I never done it nor plan to use DAW). The last jam I did, took me a while to sample and keygroup like 40 different 1/2 bar one-shot samples on single keys of a song/remix/reedit across the keys in my S950, lol. Worth it in the end though, sounds really nice and fun to toss the samples around as I play em.
#7
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
oldgearguy's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: US
Posts: 1,589

oldgearguy is offline
easiest (not cheapest) way is to separate sequencing and sampling.

I'm using an Octatrack for sampling and a Cirklon (and a Notron) for sequencing. Cirklon is always the master clock and the Octatrack (even though it has MIDI sequencing and clocking capability) is slaved to the Cirklon for playback tempo, MIDI in for triggering sampling, etc.


The whole remix/re-edit/backing info for live side of the house is definitely difficult to do w. just hardware. You can go with racks of samplers like the old Roland S-760 as an alternative to the computer.
#8
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Dubtek71's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Deep OuterBass
Posts: 2,730

Dubtek71 is offline
My set up is

Cirklon, MC-202, Tr-909, Waldorf Microwave, Akai S1100, K1, Ableton

All my external hardware is sequenced by the Cirklon and then it runs into Ableton Live. I also sequence and control Ableton instruments and effects from the Cirklon.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasseru View Post
you've ended up on mars and me on uranus
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcgood View Post
JEEZUS...I never realized how many whiny little c*nts there were on this site until the recent rounds of drum machine announcements.
#9
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Teknobeam's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 2,917

Teknobeam is offline
I'm still renovating but my design is all synths and outboard effects into 48 point patch bays some of which are half normalled into a Speck 16 channel parametric EQ which then feeds a Speck Xtramix. The rest of the synths are half normalled into the remaining channels on the Speck Xtramix. Any synth can easily be re patched into a channel of EQ, or bypassed. A Motu HD192 is fed by the buss outputs of the Speck Xtramix, and the outputs of the "HD192 feed the aux ins of the Xtramix and also the patch bay which can then allow for surround mixing into 5 JBL Control 1 AV's. Digital signals are simultaneously available via the HD192 for transferring between the Mac and the PC via a Tascam US144MKII or the E6400 Ultra via a digital patch bay. G5 Mac running DP 4.5 is controlled by a Tascam US2400 control surface which can send to 6 separate outboard effects. The setup allows simultaneous midi sequencing live of all of the synths or recording of digital audio and effects on separate tracks in the DAW. The synths can be played without turning on the computer since the Speck directly sends to the HR624 monitors via main outs.It sounds a little haywire, but it gives me the best of both worlds in a sense.
#10
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,640

fooddude is offline
Ya...I may get a Roland S-760 for super long sample times just/primarily for remixes/re-edits (as I Only have the S950 and MPC60 lol, hardly enough time to do a proper re-mix/edit if using long/plenty instrumental/acapella samples. And, I hear them 760's sound super nice ....btw, how much max sample-time can you squeeze out of a maxed out 760 at decent/normal bandwidth settings? I assume plenty, seeing it has 32mb.. especially as compared to my 2.25mb S950 and 1.44mb MPC60 (which can maybe only squeeze out 26secs from the mpc60 and only 1min for the s950) haha.
#11
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,009

fooloof is offline
i have a mixture of analog and V/A gear, all controlled by the MPC 3K. I use a bunch of MIDI thru boxes to get multiple ins and outs. So, I run MIDI IN/OUT on every piece of gear except rackmounts and VSTs. These are controlled by an Axiom Pro (which I'm about to sell) and run MIDI IN only.

I run 8 digital outs from my MPC into a Digimax FS>pro tools. and run all my other gear into the 8 inputs of my Digi 003.

everything runs on the MPC clock.
#12
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 949

spaceacademy is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Gabriel View Post
Hey ya'll, been making electronic music for 10+ yrs and until the past few was mainly ITB. I've been lucky in being able to acquire a mostly hardware setup now featuring:

Juno 60
CS-10
Roland R-8
ASR 10
Neve 3014 EQ/pres
Summit Stereo Compressor
Apogee Rosetta

I use ableton for some midi sequencing, tracking/arranging and various VST plugs for FX and some subtractive EQ.

Gotten really great results with sampled Drums completely ITB but would love to have them in the ASR and get em tight together by recording through the signal chain above. There are 2 solutions for this that I can see, use Chicken Systems or just record the out from the DAW through the Rosetta and into the ASR. I've struggled to get chicken systems working...

How are you using your hardware sampler in conjunction with your analogue gear and what have you found to get the best results? Of course I'll be continuing to experiment and see what works best for me, but curious to see what others are using a similar setup and how you go about constructing your tracks. I'd love to have Silent Way or Volta to sequence the analogs in real time, but for now sampling/realtime playing will do.
Cheers,
- Joseph

Your situation is similar to mine. I started buying hardware again six months ago after working itb exclusively for ten years. So far what is working for me is this.

MPC 400 is the sequencer which drives my hardware. Its an excellent, and very very tight sequencer. I needed this becasue Im used to sample accurate timing. The 4k comes close with only 4 samples of deviation. The 4k is synced via an innerclock systems sync gen. This insures sample accurate timing between my Daw and hardware. At first I ran my outboard straight in to my sound card but it didnt feel right for my return to a hardware system.

Just got my self a half decent mixer so now everything runs through that. Excellent!, brilliant! Splendid!. I totally recommend a proper mixer with eqs, sends etc. I do not recommend one of those so called mixers that only have volume faders. You need to eq and effect stuff as you write or you have a vibeless session.. MPC output expander has just been ordered to aid me in this. The 4k will take care of all drums, any loops, and any instrument sound I care to use. Its extremely capable and is now the heart of the studio. I have it connected via its 4 midi outs to a couple of analogs, two drum machines, and a virtual analog synth, and another hardware seqeuncer which I dont really need ow, oh and an MPC2kxl which will probably go as well. I also send one of the midi outs to the Daw so I can sequence VSTs. This is working VERY WELL. However, not so well with Ableton Live but thats to much to go in to here (Im phasing out Ableton Live anyway as it has issues). Im careful not to go mad on sound sources. Really, I could do everything with one MPC and a couple of synths. To much gear can be distracting.

The aim is to be able to finish complete tracks with my hardware only (if I choose). The only thing missing is a couple of decent compressors and FX boxes. For now Im using my soundcards ins and outs as FX sends and return the Daw FX back in to the console. Sounds OK but its ot liek how I remember outboard FX sounding.

If you have any groove boxes or drum machines you use and wish to sync them to your Daw then thats an area you should look in to. You will never really get stable sync via a Daw midi. When I mean stable I mean spot on accurate all the time. You will end up having to edit the audio and thus reduce your performance and writing angle (its totally distracting) defeating the purpose of hardware to a degree. This was my major concern before I started buying hardware again. I then found a box called Sync Gen which has been the answer to that problem. Perfect sync always!, no distractions with audio editing.

Im very rusty on the hardware at the moment. I really have forgotten those little nuances of working with hardware. Makes me realise how fast I was working with a Daw. However, I have no doubt I will get up to speed and im really enjoying a latency free experience. What a fu**ing difference it is to play real instruments which literally spit the notes back at you. Even with extremely low latency in my Daw my keyboard chops deteriorated so badly over the ten years. I moused so much stuff in to the grid over those years becasue playing virtual instruments - ie the vibe, the response, the feel, whatever you want to call it was wholly unsatisfying.

The secret is to not ditch the daw.
What we have there is a massive multi fx super duper recording machine. Imagine having such a thing in the mid 90s. What we have to do is integrate the Daw with hardware effectively and have it working for you, not the other way around. The other secret is to be careful of sequencing midi from the daw. You can get good results but be prepared for potential slop and subsequent editing of audio. However if you can drive your analogs using silent way this will not be an issue as your not using midi. Silent way is sample accurate. Do it if you can.

One last thing. I've been experimenting with my favourite software drum Machine Nerve and sending out the sounds to individual inputs on my mixer. I also load the same kit in my MPC 4000. No bS, I tell the truth but the 4k is much better sounding. I really hear the difference in the hi hats, particularly when I have multiple hats going on. There's a weird, hard to define clutter going on when multiple hits trigger at the same time which I hear on high frequencies. Its not Nerves fault, its a brilliant drum machine. Its the same with any VI drum machine. Best to get your drums out of the computer if you can.

...........................................
Off topic:
Quote:
I've struggled to get chicken systems working...
I to have had nothing but problems with their software. In my case it was teh Roland specific format. It simply doesn't work,a nd the few times I managed to get it to translate without destroying a zip drive (2 were destroyed) the conversion is a joke. I cant recall exactly but it was something to do with the file naming structure. Their tech support is condescending and the guy will always blame you for any fault. I demanded a refund due to teh software not working in either my PC or Mac, they refused. I really feel ripped off by those charlatans. Tge majority of people convert from hardware to software. I was doing it the other way around,
Quote
2
#13
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 949

spaceacademy is offline
WOW, I have no life. Didnt realise I wrote so much,
Quote
1
#14
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #14
Gear Head
 
Hollowman9's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Delaware
Posts: 66

Hollowman9 is offline
I used to use a hybrid system with a 32 channel Toa RX-7 mixing console for mixing groups out of the DAW. Now I don't DAW anymore. The new setup is this:
Emu MP-7
Akai S6000
Korg DSS-1
Casio CZ-1
Casio VZ-1
Kawai K3
Chroma Polaris

I don't have room to use the RX-7 now so I'm getting by with a Sony MXP-390 and 3 patch bays.
Sometimes I like to sample the synths with effects into the S6K and use it as a Mini-DAW. Other times everything is played real-time from the MP-7 sequencer and tracked with Sound Forge after the mixer. I strapped a stereo linked pair of JBL/Urei Model 7110s across two of the MXP-390s groups to keep the sound cards inputs from overloading.
__________________
"?I wear the black for the poor and the beaten down, Livin' in the hopeless, hungry side of town..."
Johnny Cash
#15
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #15
Gear maniac
 
harness's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 167

harness is online now
setup

Yamaha RS7000
Akai S3000XL w/ CF card reader
E-mu E4XT w/ internal HD
Virus Rack XL
Roland MKS-70
Studio Electronics ATC-X
x0xb0x
Kurzweil PC361

JL Cooper Synapse midi router
Echo Audiofire 12s
crappy 24 channel desk
2 patchbays
various outboard fx

I sequence out a whole song on the RS7000 only, using the onboard sounds or simple breaks/samples loaded up close to what I have in mind. Mainly to get the basic arrangement down. I then sub in sounds from any synths to get the patch/sound design just right, different synths on different midi channels sorted with Synapse. I sample each track into either Akai/E-mu as 1,2,4, or 8 bar riffs. Edit on PC, Recycle, and resequence these 'riff chunks' on RS7000. Multitrack record the whole thing into DAW. Rough LP/HP/EQ eack track in DAW. Mixdown OTB with a kind of dub session style using outboard FX on inserts/busses to 2 track on Korg MR1000.

The way I have it setup is that I can still do everything OTB and just record down to 2 track, or incoporate a DAW for extra capability. My synths are mainly sampler fodder, and after 'riff chunks' are recorded, I can easily store 2-3 son sessions worth in 1gb CF that both Akai and E-mu can read, chained to each other via SCSI.

I use Awave Studio to read any simple samples loaded from RS7000 files, extract wavs and load it into Akai using Millenium Pro or Recycle 2.0 for the E-mu via SCSI(I run XP Pro specifically for this)
#16
21st January 2012
Old 21st January 2012
  #16
Gear Head
 
Hollowman9's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Delaware
Posts: 66

Hollowman9 is offline
Back in the early 1990s the workflow was much different for me. In the studio 8 track reel to reel was striped with SMPTE and a windows 3.1 PC running Cubase 1.0 handled Midi tracking and synchronizing for the synths, drum machine and sampler. Then taking the show on the road required ditching the PC and simplifying the sequences enough to be played or programmed into an R8 drum machine. The R8 became the master on stage and triggered many short loops from the sampler and sequences for the synths. Back then I used a Casio FZ-1 with 2Mb RAM which didn't allow a whole lot of temporal flexibility. The FZ-1 did have the awesome ability to define 8 loops per sample. By carefully editing these loop points, repeat lengths and 8 stage envelopes I could take a 20 second sample consisting of 1 bar of each section of the song and then playback the entire 5 or 6 minute song with the press of a key and still have some samples to riff with. Electrical tape was my friend then ;-)

By using similar practices on my S6000 with it's 198 Mb I can fit an entire 5 song set in one load if needed. But hard drives/flash media make this unnecessary now.

It is fun to go back to doing things that old way sometimes though.
#17
19th March 2012
Old 19th March 2012
  #17
Gear interested
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2

tomorrowpeople is offline
I have ProTools, Logic etc etc - mostly arrangement in Logic and 'band' recording, mixing etc in ProTools.
Equally at home in both apps.

I have a room full of hardware synths and stuff and was never satisfied with how they integrated into the DAW environment so mainly used plug ins for writing arrangements and maybe swapping out the plug in with a hardware synth for mix down (ie. using the programmed MIDI in Logic).

Some of my favourite music is early OMD, Yazoo, Berlin etc - the combination of sparse analog and simply sequenced music with or without added real time overdubs (either on synths or guitar, bass and then adding vocals).
If you have a listen to this type of music it is quite economic but sounds fantastic.
Quite a small number of tracks used but very effective.
Trying to get this sort of sound using a DAW with plug-ins is possible but not that easy, that is why I have recently hooked up all my hardware MIDI stuff with the aim of making music out of the box with less options and more focus on the music and 'sound'.

To start with I have hooked up my Yamaha QX3 MIDI, Yamaha RX5 drum machine and Nord Lead 3.
The RX5 and the Nord are sync'd to external clock from the QX3.
The QX3 has 16 MIDI tracks which are easy to record on.
I can sync the arpeggiator on the Nord to the QX3 and record all MIDI events, filter sweeps etc etc.
Events for each MIDI track on the QX3 can then be edited.
Drum patterns can be written on the RX5 and chained into a song which will play back in sync with the QX3 (so you aren't using up note data on the QX3). Of course you can do the same thing on any other MIDI drum machine which in my case is a TR909 which runs nicely in sync with QX3 also.

I'm running all the audio outs to a basic 2U 16 channel rack mount mixer which has high and low EQs and FX inserts (hardware FX units plugged in) and that goes into my 003 audio interface to be monitored in a DAW. The idea is to use the DAW as a tape recorder to put down the final arrangements as audio only then mix in the box (and add additional real-time keys, real guitar, vocals etc). No MIDI in the DAW. I'm looking at MTC or tape sync to get everything in time when it comes to tracking. Several of the devices (RX5 and 909) have individual instrument outputs which I'll take advantage of when tracking so I can keep each part separate (helpful for remixes, edits etc).

I'm just getting started with this set up but it sure is fun and it forces you to use the limitations to create some cool sounding music (well, if you like sequenced electronic music that is).

I do do have a bit of vintage gear but I'm also using modern hardware (like the Nord Lead 3) in conjunction with it.
My only question is how much data I'll be able to get into one song on the QX3 before it runs out of memory.
A song only has 24,000 events so I'll have to be economical.
I do have a Roland MV30 which is more in depth so I could end up using that instead.

Some people find step programming or event editing on tiny LCD screens a chore but I grew up doing that so its no big deal and can be effective. It depends on what your doing.

With this type of set up there is quite a bit of note keeping - patterns used, working out measures, trying to instigate programme changes into the MIDI set up of songs for each module so you don't have to manually set them up each time on power up... It's no big deal compared to the SOUND you get - it's just awesome!

So here's the set up I'm putting together which will be used together or parts of depending on the song I'm working on.
• Yamaha QX3 sequencer (16 tracks with floppy drive)
•*Roland MV30 sequencer (16 tracks with floppy drive, built in LA synth module with 2x factory sound bank cards)
• Korg S3 drum machine/8 track sequencer/sound module
• Yamaha RX5 drum machine with all four factory WRC ROM carts
• Roland TR909 drum machine + MC64 cart
Roland MKS80 + MPG80 + MC64 carts
• Yamaha TX1P Piano module
• Yamaha TX802 module + RAM carts
• Yamaha KX88 master keyboard
Yamaha DX7IIFD
• SCI Prophet 5 Rev 3.3 + MIDI
• Roland Juno 106 x2
• Roland Jupiter 4
• Casio CZ101
• Korg SDD3000 Triple Delay
• Roland A-80 MID controller
• Korg T2 EX

Newer stuff:
Nord Lead 3
• Roland XV3080 expanded
• Korg Triton expanded
• Lexicon MPX 500
• Focusrite compressor
• MOTU Midi Timepiece AV 8x8 MIDI port
• MIDIMAN Midisport 8x8 MIDI port

So this stuff is all going to be connected up in some form or another.
Might sound like a lot of stuff but the idea is to keep it simple - think, if you were in the studio in 1982 and only had 8 or 16 tracks to use with minimal FX how would you go about making a song?
This is not about having endless tracks in a DAW, a gazillion FX and plug-ins - that negates the purpose and the ideals of using hardware.

Some people will say - why bother?
The answer is all about the sound and the feel which is sometimes only achievable with a hardware setup.
Quote
1
#18
17th August 2012
Old 17th August 2012
  #18
Gear maniac
 
midihooker's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 299

midihooker is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubtek71 View Post
My set up is

Cirklon, MC-202, Tr-909, Waldorf Microwave, Akai S1100, K1, Ableton

All my external hardware is sequenced by the Cirklon and then it runs into Ableton Live. I also sequence and control Ableton instruments and effects from the Cirklon.
are you slaving ableton from cirklon? if so how does this work? good or bad? I have a inneclock device (sync-gen software) so i dont know if i should have cirklon in slave form that, or sell innecklock and use cirklon as master.. have not yet got my cirklon but Im planning ahead.. sync-gen is really cool. Everything sync perfect to it.. one can also set the ppq (and swing to output!) that suits the device that one wants to give sync to.. So..
__________________
"I love the su 700 i thought we were going to conquer the world toghether but sadly we grew apart. I remember so many unemployed rainy days we spent in my bedroom trying to find the right combination"
#19
17th August 2012
Old 17th August 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
wakestyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,454

wakestyle is offline
k2661/s760/mv8000...

Samples go through Slicex->export->translator->Kurzweil or Roland (from DAW)

MV8000 samples get loaded through the cdrom or go through translator after slicing (less work IMO)

ASR is fully supported with chickensys, try the latest build...
__________________
It could be different on a mac...
mp3
#20
18th August 2012
Old 18th August 2012
  #20
mp3
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 978

mp3 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
Samples go through Slicex->export->translator->Kurzweil or Roland (from DAW)

MV8000 samples get loaded through the cdrom or go through translator after slicing (less work IMO)
Wow that's interesting. I find that chopping up samples is where the fun is, so to speak. For me that's part of the creative process itself. But then again, chopping and slicing arent the same thing, so if all I wanted to do was slice then I'd probably do it on the computer too.
#21
18th August 2012
Old 18th August 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
wakestyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,454

wakestyle is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Wow that's interesting. I find that chopping up samples is where the fun is, so to speak. For me that's part of the creative process itself. But then again, chopping and slicing arent the same thing, so if all I wanted to do was slice then I'd probably do it on the computer too.
I have not found a hardware sampler that chops well internally. I just like the flow that way, I can do any edit before hand that I need (in the DAW), then slice away.
#22
18th August 2012
Old 18th August 2012
  #22
Gear Head
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 70

Say Again is offline
Set up:
Mpc60ii
Emu emax x2
Emu e6400
Tr-707

Juno106
Prophet 08
Sh101
Dx7iiD
M1r

Various outboard efx like RE201 space echo, dp4, 3630, Golden Age compressor/ preamp, etc.

Mackie cr1604

Lately I've had everything routed through the Mpc sequencer. I will jam on a couple 8 bar sequences and get where there is some sort of groove and it can build and be broken down to make tension.

Then I will record myself for a long time, tweaking and twisting. Hopefully getting some ideas out that work as a song.

Then after the jam, if it is working, I'll often go back and re-record the drums on their own channel.

Then I edit the parts down to more of an arrangement. Do any overdubs. Export the stems and mix them in Harrison mix buss.

This workflow is way more fun than my old style where I would write parts in a daw. It sounds alive, kinda sloppy, lots of surprises.

Def not for all types of music but I make raw, deep, house with lots of evolving textures. The lofi sound is okay here.

I don't think you could write a Beatport Top 20 track this way and have if sound sterile, er, I mean "banging" enough. But I ain't trying to do that.
#23
18th August 2012
Old 18th August 2012
  #23
Gear Head
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 70

Say Again is offline
Oh and as far as sampling - mostly I build sample kits during down time of uncreative lulls. Sample records, individual hits from old sample CDs, my synths. Whatever. Then I'm set when inspiration hits.
#24
18th August 2012
Old 18th August 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Dubtek71's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Deep OuterBass
Posts: 2,730

Dubtek71 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by midihooker View Post
are you slaving ableton from cirklon? if so how does this work? good or bad? I have a inneclock device (sync-gen software) so i dont know if i should have cirklon in slave form that, or sell innecklock and use cirklon as master.. have not yet got my cirklon but Im planning ahead.. sync-gen is really cool. Everything sync perfect to it.. one can also set the ppq (and swing to output!) that suits the device that one wants to give sync to.. So..
No not slaving but rather driving and controlling it from the midi USB port. As an example: I would sequence the microwave from the cirklon and then set up an effects chain in Ableton on the channel the microwave runs into. That effects chain has the parameters mapped to cc in the track controls section of the Cirklon. Since the Cirklon has 96 cc per track it easy to set up a " meta instrument" where by parameters from both the hardware and software reside on the same channel.

Generally speaking I think most are using the Cirklon as the master. Of course there will be exceptions. I cannot really comment on slaving Ableton with the Cirklon too much as I have not really tried it. The comments in the Cirklon user group have been mixed from what I recall. As per usual results vary with Ableton. I wouldn't sell the gen sync yet. Wait until you have the Cirklon and have tried it out for a month or three by that point you will know for yourself wether or not you need the innerclock box.
Happy waiting.
mp3
#25
18th August 2012
Old 18th August 2012
  #25
mp3
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 978

mp3 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
I have not found a hardware sampler that chops well internally. I just like the flow that way, I can do any edit before hand that I need (in the DAW), then slice away.
Yeah it's probably due to our different methodologies (i chop manually with little regard for transients or 'logical' slice points, and I absolutely detest not being able to overlap). But for slicing, the only hardware that I've found that comes close to computer-like speed and efficiency is the mpc 1000/2500 with JJOS.
#26
20th August 2012
Old 20th August 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
wakestyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,454

wakestyle is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Yeah it's probably due to our different methodologies (i chop manually with little regard for transients or 'logical' slice points, and I absolutely detest not being able to overlap). But for slicing, the only hardware that I've found that comes close to computer-like speed and efficiency is the mpc 1000/2500 with JJOS.
MV can chop nicely, but it only works well, for example when the audio has silence between the audio... but the whole process is still slow IMO, unless the audio begins on the MV. I think I probably just don't know how to use it that well.
#27
5th October 2012
Old 5th October 2012
  #27
Gear addict
 
Slik dA Relic's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Brooknam, NYC
Posts: 381

Slik dA Relic is offline
*
Quote:
Originally Posted by harness View Post
I sequence out a whole song on the RS7000 only, using the onboard sounds or simple breaks/samples loaded up close to what I have in mind. Mainly to get the basic arrangement down. I then sub in sounds from any synths to get the patch/sound design just right
thats very close to how i start off.. the difference between us is that i dont midi the synths anymore, unless i really have to.. if its a simple straight sound i'll play it real time.. i'll midi it if its a more complicated loop.

RS7000
Fusion
Nord Lead2
ER1
Beat Thang
Korg D16XD


da relic
#28
5th October 2012
Old 5th October 2012
  #28
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 22,422

chrisso is offline
I use a lot of hardware synths and FX, but I also think midi has had it's day.
Bad midi timing was causing me a ton of grief, until I bought a Expert Sleepers Euro module and Silent Way.
Now I've added an Innerclock Euro (sync) module too.
I don't have anything midi in my set up, other than a Roland controller to write parts in Ableton or Logic.
Sync-Gen IILS: Video Demo – Ableton Live/Tip Top Z-8000 & Z-3000/Z-2040/Cwejman EGs etc | Innerclock Systems – Stay In Sync

My basic workflow is to use an ES4 to control analog synths over cv & gate. Recording in to my DAW though vintage hardware.
I also process audio from my DAW through outboard hardware, or back out to my modular synths.
I have a couple of Roland samplers, but I'm not prepared to fiddle with bad midi timing, so I'm using software samplers at the moment (Maschine and Ableton Simpler).
Very happy with this set up and workflow.
__________________
Chris Whitten
Quote
1
#29
6th October 2012
Old 6th October 2012
  #29
Lives for gear
 
cdog's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 3,997

cdog is offline
I have a couple setups, but mainly the idea is to just hook a few synths/drum machines/samplers up to your sequencer via MIDI and a mixer with one or two FX boxes, start jamming and then hit record. Dont hook up every machine you own, just use one drum machine, one sampler and a synth or two. This will keep you focused. Dont worry tons about making a perfect track right off the bat, just get a few solid parts down and before you get bogged down move on to the next track. Keep doing this until you fall unconscious, but leave it setup.

The morning after, when all the drugs and booze have worn off, you can listen back and start to make edits and tweaks and patch together your parts to form songs, and start getting a rough mix. At this point, you can decide which tracks and parts are worth keeping, but the important/crucial part of this setup is to be able to jam freely and not worry about anything while you compose the basic building blocks, just enjoy the sounds and the creation process.
Quote
2
#30
9th October 2012
Old 9th October 2012
  #30
Gear interested
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Location: Hilversum
Posts: 2

TerraRist is offline
Hi guys,.. I looked for a suitable topic This was the closest to my own situation I am on the verge of buying a circuit bend Casio 40/41. But since i am not familiar with a hardware approach to much and definitely not with a synth without midi. I wanted to get some info out here ..
So how can I use it in my work flow cuzz its not midi neither. Please is there some info on this matter anywhere? I use Logic9 for my DAW Thanks a lot in advance. And also ..is it possible to just plug this baby into my Apogee DUET2? Is it the best way then to play real time?

Last edited by TerraRist; 9th October 2012 at 08:02 AM.. Reason: add
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
dsstudio / Electronic Music Instruments & Electronic Music Production
40
Alex.T / Music Computers
0
Clueless / So much gear, so little time!
1
jupiter8 / Geekslutz forum
5

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.