MOOG Taurus vs ??? for SUB BASS?

[sdrr00]

ok looking for a analog synth (no plug ins) for insanely heavy hard hitting bass. from what ive seen the Moog Taurus is the only synth completely dedicated to reallllly low bass sounds, and while the new minitaur looks awesome, i want to see my options. i generally make really heavy bass music mostly using extremely tight and sharp basslines, but also want something that will do some electro-dub//ragga style really well. thanks!

[SpaceBeach]

reference removed by moderator NO CRACKS PLEASE?!

[projectwoofer]

Yeah you can also find my sample pack "Bob's Fart Bass" on Amazon.co.uk. Best of the best, guaranteed!

[SpaceBeach]

Another alternative is layering on top of low sinewaves. U can make everything low.

[SpaceBeach]

Originally Posted by projectwoofer

Yeah you can also find my sample pack "Bob's Fart Bass" on Amazon.co.uk. Best of the best, guaranteed!

"Pro shit". :-D

[projectwoofer]

Originally Posted by SpaceBeach

"Pro shit"

Hahahah...yeah! Sorry I couldn't resist! To the OP: also check the Waldorf Pulse.

[W-W-Int]

the moog source is basically the taurus pedals in a membrane button small keyboard housed synth. it adds program memories and keys vs. the taurus pedal's foot pedals and a much cheaper price.


also check out a studio electronics atc. the original version which had cartridges can be found cheaper than the source and has a very similar circuit design and sound (if you use the moog cartridge). it's a rack version but has midi as standard and far more program memories than the source.


for good all around bass synth duties the doepfer dark energy is hard to beat. it has single osc and no memories but is semi modular and has a good low end to it. also has midi.


new sem modules are another (however far more expensive) option for a semi modular.


the yamaha cs-10/15/30 are good at bass too. no midi standard but even the 30 is half the price of the taurus pedals and is a far more rounded synth.

[projectwoofer]

Originally Posted by W-W-Int

also check out a studio electronics atc. the original version which had cartridges can be found cheaper than the source and has a very similar circuit design and sound (if you use the moog cartridge). it's a rack version but has midi as standard and far more program memories than the source.

Very nice info! Didn't know that Source and ATC share similar circuit design...

[clusterchord]

IME they sound nothing alike. Source and ATC. its only that chip used for VCA is similar in ATCX. Source ios dirtier and has more typical vintage saturation, whereas ATC is clean as a whistle. and almost too well tuned. SE1X sound bigger down there than ATCX, having a full discrete VCA with paired transistor, not much unlike minimoog. (ATCXi version is the same).

SE1X indeed does rather well deep down. tho its not as constant in volume going form note to note (like vygr isnt either), like some legendary low end synths do, i.e. SH2, minimoog etc. and its slow (i use angel dust nova ed). i used it in a nu disco tune and had to squash it with a distressor to get it to stand still. i almost never use compression on mini and sh2.



id just like to say, dont bow down so quickly to moog marketing. i'm interested in minitaur as well, but it is definitely NOT the only synth that does well in very low frequencies. there are so many analogs that do big bass. tho they can do other things great as well and each has its own respective character - ill just name a few.. sh9/1/2, minimoog, multimoog, various modulars old and new - motm oakley dotcom macbeth... (crapload), system 101, kawai 100f (biggest square wave i heard), oddysey mkIII, axxe mkII etc etc..

[kazper]

MINITAUR | Moog Music Inc

[SWAN808]

yeah the Source and ATC sound nothing alike.

The SE1x does have A LOT of low end. Not a bad choice there - although the envelopes are not so fast - but maybe not a prob for Dub raggae.

Also - dont discount the MOPHO. That thing can produce a hell of a lot of Sub freq. There are some sub presets on that thing that are absurd in the low freq.

Depends on the type of bass you want. Try a MOPHO - dead cheap second hand. And see if you can pick up a SE1 - again - not bad prices second hand.

The proof is in the pudding.

[tvsky]

i use my se1x all the time for sub bass , love it ! I have a red eye edition though with faster env's so I don't know if the slower normal env's would be a problem . the red eyes are not fast but they are just fast enough to not be a problem

you can get bass from lots of different sources though and not just analog , yamaha dx's were great at sub bass and I use my virus b a lot for subs also

[incurablebeatlus]

Originally Posted by tvsky

I use my virus b a lot for subs also

Please elaborate. I struggle to get good subs out of mine. I can get decent basses just not full round subs. It seems I have to reach for the saturation or distortion to punch it up and then it loses some (or a lot) of its round, clean subby power.
Thnx.

[The Real MC]

For solid low end oomph Taurus > Source > SE1x

I own(ed) all three

[LiveFromKyoto]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Also - dont discount the MOPHO. That thing can produce a hell of a lot of Sub freq. There are some sub presets on that thing that are absurd in the low freq.

This is the gospel truth. With speakers with enough low end you can shake an entire house with that thing. It's a little yellow earthquake machine.

[djugel]

Jen SX1000 with "some pedal on it" is nice for in your face stuff. The square wave dry is pretty tasty too if you want clean huge sub bass.

cheap option.

gotta mod it for MIDI tho,. very much worth it for sequenced bass.
Also "the" most beautiful lead synths ever built... as in leads that are meant to sound beautiful..

YEah, I said it.. I'll say it again if I have too.

[scottdavidson]

Jen SX1000

excellent for sub bass, good suggestion, not much cop for anything else though. Second hand prices for these seem to have shot up dramatically over the last couple of years .

[sdrr00]

Originally Posted by clusterchord

id just like to say, dont bow down so quickly to moog marketing. i'm interested in minitaur as well, but it is definitely NOT the only synth that does well in very low frequencies.

thats the reason for this thread. according to whats being said about the MINITAUR, its exactly what im looking for in terms of a bass synth. however, its hard for me to believe that its IT, and want to see my options before i rush towards it. the Slim i have isnt ENOUGH in terms of "**** off" bass, and im hoping for something better. the lack of sub-oscs on the taurus doesnt sit well with me - but how much does that really matter?

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Also - dont discount the MOPHO. That thing can produce a hell of a lot of Sub freq. There are some sub presets on that thing that are absurd in the low freq.

yes, the logical alternative for me was DSIs new shit. can anyone compare the mopho with the new taurus in action with regards to bass? i really want mind shattering, face slapping bass, and bass only

[projectwoofer]

Originally Posted by sdrr00

can anyone compare the mopho with the new taurus in action with regards to bass? i really want mind shattering, face slapping bass, and bass only

Let me get this straight. Are you asking us to compare the yet unreleased Minitaur to the Mopho?

[sdrr00]

Originally Posted by projectwoofer

Let me get this straight. Are you asking us to compare the yet unreleased Minitaur to the Mopho?

umm the taurus 3 has been released already...

[projectwoofer]

Originally Posted by sdrr00

umm the taurus 3 has been released already...

The Taurus 3 was released about 3-4 years ago if I recall correctly so it's not "the new Moog". The new Moog is the Minitaur which is based on the Taurus but apparently (or not) not exactly the same and it's still unreleased so for the time being no one is able to tell how similar is indeed to the Taurus 3...so next time you can leave the smart-ass facepalms for someone else.

[shadowfac]

I think the Pulse does a great job as a (sub)bass machine, but I'm willing to give my vote to the yet unreleased Minitaur, for the following reasons: (1) it has more knobs than the Pulse, so it must be more fun to program/play (even if it's sonically more limited), (2) the OP is looking for the Taurus tone, which the Minitaur seems to target (the Minitaur shows in the Taurus section of the Moog Music website), and (3) it doesn't cost much more than a second hand Pulse, but it's new and appears to have a more up-to-date MIDI implementation.

[clusterchord]

Originally Posted by sdrr00

in regards to point 2, im not looking for the Taurus tone per-se, just that the taurus being a dedicated bass synth, is the only thing that seems to be what im looking for. i know other synths can do awesome bass, but im looking for that "over the edge" subsonic, pure BASS

well that means different things to different ppl. i cannot imagine a greater over the edge low end than original SEM, minimoog, and some modulars i heard like simple single osc MOTM thru a ladder etc.. they all kill small animals at 100 metres.. , tho admitedly most are more expensive than minitaur. that is something to consider too.


in the end, relax, if your heart is telling you to get minitaur, theres no going against it .. if it turns out it aint what u wanted you can always sell it later. im also undecided... tho i dont really need it at all.. but its so small, cute and analog and... phuuukk... im GASing for no logical reason at all , maybe i should buy some harmonix pedal or something to quench my thirst with a cheaper fix..

[SWAN808]

just pick up a second hand MOPHO for $300 or something - try it - if you are looking for sub bass I doubt you will be disappointed. It has 2 sub Oscillators after all....

[bluesky]

Comparing MOPHO side by side with Phatty I thought Phatty sounded thicker subosc or not.

[samsam]

My SH-101 does some tasty sub.

[Plaeground]

What in particular about the Taurus or Minotaur make it better at Bass than a Voyager? What is the difference?

[Susceptor]

Originally Posted by projectwoofer

Reported

Originally Posted by projectwoofer

Second report...

@OP: go with the Mopho for hard hitting bass.

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by Plaeground

What in particular about the Taurus or Minotaur make it better at Bass than a Voyager? What is the difference?

Part of a post on AH


"What makes the Taurus synth engine an "analog bass synth":

AC coupling between VCF and VCA has an inherent 20hz corner boost.
The service manual confirms it. *This is an effect that cannot be
duplicated with EQ or addition of pre-filter fundamental sine waves.

OTAs in the VCF feedback path and the VCA. *The 3080 and 13700 OTAs
are NOT high fidelity, in fact if you operate them with high amplitude
signals you push the OTAs into non-linearity - that's distortion to
you laymen. *The Taurus audio path has distortion designed into it.
Anybody with a 'scope can see the highly curved ramp waveform on the
audio output with the filter wide open. *That's why the Taurus synth
engine has such a solid fundamental.

Hot signals into the VCF. *The ladder filter will generate ear
pleasing harmonics when pushed and the Taurus exploits this feature.
Coupled with the "lo-fi" OTAs this creates a warm sound.

Optimal RC product when coupling stages. *When stages are AC coupled,
the capacitor is a high pass filter and is part of the RC product. *If
the wrong value cap is used, the RC product will roll off bass
frequencies. *I uncovered this in the Micromoog years ago. *The Taurus
is designed such that the RC product of each stage is optimum enough
to pass sufficient bass frequencies.

These circuit traits did not exist in any other Moog synth until the T3.

Some like to claim that the V/hz VCOs have an impact on the sound.
This is a myth. *If you took the standard V/oct charged cap core ramp
waveform VCO (IE minimoog) and removed the exponential voltage to
current converter, you wind up with the V/hz Taurus VCO. *My PAiA 4700
modular had V/hz VCOs and they were far from the obese bass of the
Taurus.

Wikipedia has an entry claiming that the FET based VCOs are
responsible for the big sound. *Another myth. *The only purpose of the
sole FET in the Taurus VCO is to reset the charging cap back to zero
to create the periodic ramp waveform. *It is not even in the audio
path and has zero impact on the timbre of the VCO. *The only effect
the FET has is scaling errors at higher frequencies due to resistance
between drain and source terminals."

[projectwoofer]

Originally Posted by Susceptor