Is side chaining used much in "post-dubstep" and future bass?

[Systolic]

Future bass and post-dubstep are kind of the sounds that I am going for. I don't really hear that ducking pump sound that you hear in techno and electro that comes from side chaining. I know that compression is sometimes used heavily on individual sounds, but I'm not sure if side chaining is used in a similar manner. Really, I'm just wondering if I should "study" it, or work learning other production techniques instead.

The type of music I'm referring to is the stuff that is released on Planet Mu, Hyperdub, Hotflush. Artists like Zomby, Hemlock, Night Slugs, and artists like James Blake, Ikonika, xxxy, Slugabed, FaltyDL, Scuba, SBTRKT, Mount Kimbie, Joy Orbison, Egyptrixx...

[AJ Reynolds]

sometimes it's used sometimes it isn't. anything goes in this genre.
i use it more for kick and bass but your not suppose to notice it.

[Brainchild]

If anybody else has some more rules and conventions for this genre, I'm interested in making music that sounds like a lot of the stuff that's already been made in post-dubstep. I see the genre of post-dubstep as being a legitimate and actual genre that is going to really go places, and I'd like to get into it in the wake of a lot of people who have already done what I'm hoping to do in the future.

[offki]

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

sometimes it's used sometimes it isn't. anything goes in this genre.

This.

[AJ Reynolds]

it's weird how people are calling it post-dubstep. to me and everyone else who's been listening to it the last 8 years or so, it's just dubstep.

[Systolic]

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

anything goes in this genre.

That's why I love it. It is the most creative scene right now in my opinion. But, there are reoccurring themes and techniques. And since I am relatively new to producing I am just trying to figure out which techniques I should master first for this genre. I mean, I don't want to copy any of these guys, I want to develop my own unique sound, but I'd like to know the tools and techniques that the guys who inspire me use.

[Systolic]

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

it's weird how people are calling it post-dubstep. to me and everyone else who's been listening to it the last 8 years or so, it's just dubstep.

I've been listening to it since it was "dark garage", before it was really even called dubstep. You know, circa 2002 Horsepower in the No U-Turn studio type stuff. Plastician's mixes when he was still Plasticman. I just use "post-dubstep" to differentiate if from Skrillex and Borgore when I'm not talking to a dubstep specific crowd. But I didn't intend for this to be a "I listened to dubstep wayback when" or brostep vs. dubstep thread. There have been enough of those already.

[AJ Reynolds]

it really is too wide. most of them are ITB though.

[Systolic]

I kind of laughed when I saw a pic of Ooah's (Glitch Mob, Pantyraid) setup. Not very slutty at all. Especially for a guy who tours internationally with a crazy stage rig with custom Ableton controllers. But I'm sure he has access to nice full on studios. I'm guessing he's an ITB kind of guy. I figure if he had a bunch of toys the photo would be a bit wider.

His stuff as Pantyraid is awesome. But the new Glitch Mob stuff is a little too brostepish for me; sounds like brostep with electro house drums to a fast hip hop beat.

[Systolic]

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

it really is too wide. most of them are ITB though.

Ok. Then for this genre, other than knowing how to do everything in the Ableton manual, where do I take my study of production from there.

Which techniques should I concentrate on first?

[gregwar]

clever sound design is the reason I get out of bed in the morning. I think this is the most important in any genre especially ones that are wide open to interpretation

mixing techniques are important but the better quality source material generally the easier mixing becomes. plus it overlaps constantly with plug-in instruments and effects

I'd find information through searches on gs about bass, leads, pads and about the softsynths you have and look at tutorials online about creating different patches from scratch

the Internet helps a lot but instead of just searching, watching and reading try reverse engineering patches. this and experimenting with effects is best way to learn

one good way to do this is to choose a method like subtractive or fm. have 2 instances of the same plug-in open with an init/blank patch on one and a preset u like on another and try to recreate it.

even after 15 years there are tons of complex patches from pro sound designers that I don't understand. breaking it down insections helps me either in 101 or a master class. like osc > filter > amp > modulation > effects for example

trying to focus specific things like sidechain is a good idea. a quick search on any kind of mixing technique will bring up tons of threads. if there were fixed sounds they'd prolly quickly become cliche so try different things and don't worry too much about what so-and-so's doing

[offki]

Originally Posted by gregwar

one good way to do this is to choose a method like subtractive or fm. have 2 instances of the same plug-in open with an init/blank patch on one and a preset u like on another and try to recreate it

What can be really fun is to come here, find a 'how do I make this sound' thread. Have a good go at making the sound and then don't tell them how you did it, hours of good clean fun.

I do agree with this idea, it's an interesting way to get a feel for different synths, even if it's subtractive to subtractive. The same patch made in Massive may sound totally different made in DCAM:Cypher.

[Itsmorning]

I don't know what future bass or post-dubstep are so u tell me.

[Systolic]

Originally Posted by Itsmorning

I don't know what future bass or post-dubstep are so u tell me.

Some great examples.


George Fitzgerald - Friends in high places - YouTube

Zomby - Alothea - YouTube

africa hitech - light the way - YouTube

Salva - Obsession (feat. B. Bravo) |HD + FREE DOWNLOAD| - YouTube

[Itsmorning]

Originally Posted by Systolic

Some great examples.


George Fitzgerald - Friends in high places - YouTube

Zomby - Alothea - YouTube

africa hitech - light the way - YouTube

Alrighty I'll listen and tell u if I hear side chaining.

[Systolic]

Originally Posted by Itsmorning

Alrighty I'll listen and tell u if I hear side chaining.

Thanks. Like I said, in my opinion this is the most exciting and experimental (while still being very musical) scene in electronic music right now. It isn't so much a specific sound as a scene that produces diverse "deep" bass music from 130-140bpms.

And a little more... This is the album sampler track for Sepalcure. It is probably the most highly regarded and well reviewed "future bass/post dubstep" album to come out recently. It doesn't really have a genre really, but that is what it gets associated with.
http://soundcloud.com/surus/sepalcure-sepalcure-lp-album

[Itsmorning]

Originally Posted by Systolic

Thanks. Like I said, in my opinion this is the most exciting and experimental (while still being very musical) scene in electronic music right now. It isn't so much a specific sound as a scene that produces diverse "deep" bass music from 130-140bpms.

So which of these is future bass? Just asking to update my genre knowledge. I've listened to the first song by Fitzgerald. No doubt there is side chaining on the pads in the back ground you can hear it dip at every kick drum hit. I would even say the the stabs in the middlish were also sidechained with the kick. All the other sounds I can't say for sure they could just be regular non side chained sound, most likely unless he used a more creative set up. I didn't hear much bass but that could be my headphones or YouTube. On to the next song.

[Systolic]

Originally Posted by Itsmorning

So which of these is future bass? Just asking to update my genre knowledge. I've listened to the first song by Fitzgerald. No doubt there is side chaining on the pads in the back ground you can hear it dip at every kick drum hit. I would even say the the stabs in the middlish were also sidechained with the kick. All the other sounds I can't say for sure they could just be regular non side chained sound, most likely unless he used a more creative set up. I didn't hear much bass but that could be my headphones or YouTube. On to the next song.

It is all future bass. It is really a catch all term for deep bass music at 130-140 that usually has a break beat, that isn't house, techno, dubstep or d&B. Producers don't actually call it future bass. They just say they make bass music. Usually it is producers that are associated with post-dubstep, deep breaks, UK Funky, deeper UK Garage. And, some of it doesn't always have a big deep bassline, it is just those artists and labels are associated with that scene of producers and DJs that play and remix each others music. I listed some of them in my OP.

And yeah, Youtube doesn't do the basslines justice.

[poserp]

Isn't this "broken beat"? Here's a tutorial, might have some useful tricks:



Kill the percussion stuff you don't want, speed it up a bit, and add bass to taste.

[Itsmorning]

Ok that Africa hi tech song doesn't really use sidechaining as much as the Fitzgerald song. I still think they use it though cuz the kick does stand out more than I would expect with everything else that is going on. I did notice the bass this time and it actually seems like when the bass comes in unison with the kick they actually sidechain dip the low end of the kick with the bass because It loses that part of the sound but kees the clicky high of the kick.

[Itsmorning]

So the last song by salva which btw was my fav of the bunch had enough timing separation between the drum hits and the bass to probably not warrant any heavy sidechaining. I do think they used it moderately, (probably ducking the mid and highs to make room for the vocals) to bring out parts of the mix but nothing over the top like the first mix. That's kind of the regular way to use sidechaining, it usually isn't apparent but helps with overall dynamics.

Personally I think sidechaining plays a part in most mixes and is worthwhile to learn

[CircusofMind]

Side chaining is a tool. It can be used in all music. Learn it, it's not hard.

[cane creek]

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

it's weird how people are calling it post-dubstep. to me and everyone else who's been listening to it the last 8 years or so, it's just dubstep.

Yes people like to invent a new sub genre of an established genre, I remember when I first heard DJ shadows's beautiful abstract hip hop then some arse from mixmag decided to label it trip hop and murdered the whole genre.

[Systolic]

Originally Posted by poserp

Isn't this "broken beat"?

Broken beat, as a specific genre and scene, was one of the precursors to future bass and peaked about 2004, a la Bug In The Attic. Although it had a bit more of a R&B vocal influence and had an afrocentric vibe that crossed over with the popular-at-the-same-time neo soul scene.

The stuff that Seiji (one of the Bugz) produces now is played by future bass DJs.

[Systolic]

Originally Posted by Itsmorning

So the last song by salva which btw was my fav of the bunch

B Bravo played the keys and sang on that track. He's from SF.

I saw him live at a show in DC that was attended by maybe 75 to 100 people.

He has his own eps out. He uses Ableton and an Axiom live, but plays most of his leads with an Arp Odyssey in his studio. He produces with Neundo.

Pic of his setup is on his homepageindex

B. BRAVO's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

He's gotten support from Dam-Funk and Giles Peterson, if you are familiar with them. He's part of the Frite Nite crew.

[Systolic]

Originally Posted by cane creek

Yes people like to invent a new sub genre of an established genre, I remember when I first heard DJ shadows's beautiful abstract hip hop then some arse from mixmag decided to label it trip hop and murdered the whole genre.

James Blake, Mount Kimbie and Joy Orbison were the first to really get labeled as post-dubstep. It actually fits them more so than others. They aren't really dubstep producers, their music doesn't sound like dubstep. Older or newer. But you can tell that's where it came from.

So with them anyway, it isn't really calling it "post" just to differentiate it from brostep. It differentiates it from "actual" dubstep as well. Kind of like calling Joy Division and PiL post punk, I mean that music is definitely different than regular punk, but you can tell that's where its roots are.

[kcearl]

Im developing DrunkStep....its out of time and all over the place....

[Brainchild]

But does it have polyrhythms? Or halve polyrhythms? Gotta have 'em! Post post post!

[mattg082]

For the dub stuff I hear a whole lot of compression going on with the drums and especially the crashes plus lots of creative verb. I keep seeing a crap load of tutorials popping up on those style drums set around 144bpm. Take that and figure out a bass style you like along with some original elements and just roll with it. I like taking a bunch from different generes. Dub drums with electro and trance style synths and then electro with dub basslines ect. I feel like a ****ing ****** trying to follow something in a specific standard and trying to sound like someone else...I just have fun and do whatever sounds good to me. If it makes me feel like I'm on drugs or speeding and I'm sober, then I keep with it lol

[offki]

Originally Posted by kcearl

Im developing DrunkStep....its out of time and all over the place....

We have already got that.. :P