? don't think that there is extra room in that box for an upgrade...but, wait! a Moog upgrade, means some extra $$$ over that already high* price...that doesn't sound so good...
*for its category and features
Yeah like the immense value of their recent 500 series filter
So, it's a midi-controllable, compact Moog synth, based on the Taurus signal path..
What about that isn't there to love??!!!!!!!!!
Indeed! Nice move by Moog, - and a simplistic contender to the other analog boxes: Mopho, Dark Energy etc. Really looking forward to hearing the Moog!
Btw., what makes it a bass module in particlar? Lack of modulation options, lol? There is the release on/off switch anything else making it a 'bass' synth in particular, besides it's bass pedal heritage?
Another pic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh...
$600 lol lol lol lol
Moog is officially the Apple of synths.
..
Nice trolling there, pal. But consider that Apple crap is made in shitty underpaid factories in China. Moog is made in the U.S., most likely by people not treated and paid like shit.
__________________
“This is the most beautyful place on Earth. There are many such places.” Edward Abbey Desert Solitaire
The blurb says:
•100% analog audio signal path based on Taurus I and Taurus III synthesizers.
•2 Taurus VCOs with variable Glide amount •Sawtooth (original Taurus)
Could it be less explicit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern
Not sure if you have seen this...
That's exactly the video I was trying not to link to. Poorly executed in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke
Btw., what makes it a bass module in particlar? Lack of modulation options, lol? There is the release on/off switch anything else making it a 'bass' synth in particular, besides it's bass pedal heritage?
I think that the linear v/Hz oscillators cannot track accurately at the top end or something due to the design - although they can go pretty high as it happens. I'm a bit hazy on that so don't take it as fact.
Resonance sounds quite different in this demo...T1 might be more "punchy" too...not that T3 doesn't sound huge though...
Hearing again that T3, makes me even more skeptic about a "Taurus 3 sounding Minitaur", because of all these limitations in sound design and lack of versatility...
I believe that this is not an option for someone who wants a cheap Moog synth....it's definitely not equal or better than a Phatty when someone thinks of it as a synth and not as a "tweakable bass module"...
Someone could have the same result with some hundreds of high quality multisamples and a good filter emulation...it sounds like the 2/10 of what a Trillian can do for the specific use of an analogue bass module...
Well, I don't know for sure, but I was guessing that they put the guts of a Taurus III inside, without the preset storage circuitry. Could be wrong, but that's what it looks like.
I no longer have a simple monosynth... and need one!
I still lust after the Waldorf MiniWorks 4-pole ... but can't find one in the US.
I don't have room for another keyboard
I don't need patch memory
I don't like the sound of the little phatty.
SEM is too expensive
Don't need modulations all nutty like Dark Energy. Want to make music.. pretty pretty music...
The MINITAUR is a compact table-top monophonic MIDI-and-CV-controllable analog bass synthesizer module with a 100% analog audio signal path, based on the design of the Taurus 3 bass synthesizer.
The front panel features a knob-per-function design, for maximum real-time tweakability. There are no internally stored presets, but presets can be created and managed via MIDI. The MINITAUR has several new features added to the classic Taurus synth engine, including an external audio input, that expand the basic synthesis and sound design capability of the instrument. Minitaur fits right into the computer based music production rig or is easily controlled via MIDI controller.
100% analog audio signal path based on Taurus I and Taurus III synthesizers.
2 Taurus VCOs with variable Glide amount
Sawtooth (original Taurus) or Square waveform selection for both VCOs
External Audio Input
Headphone out
2 Mixer VCAs for setting the level of the VCOs
1 VCF Moog/Taurus-style Ladder Filter w/ VC Resonance
1 VCA
Two Minimoog-style ADSR Envelope generators with the Decay and Release segments controlled by the Decay knob plus a Release On/Off switch
1 MIDI-syncable triangle wave LFO for modulating VCF/VCOs
DIN MIDI In and MIDI over USB out
1 Volume Footwheel Controller with optical mechanism
1 Programmable Footwheel Controller with optical mechanism
9 Footswitches for selecting Bank and Presets, Transpose, Glide On/Off, Decay On/Off, and Octave Up/Down
Synthesizer Sound Engine
100% Analog Audio signal path based entirely on the highly acclaimed Taurus I synthesizer circuits
2 x VCOs (Voltage Controlled Oscillators) with sawtooth waveform outputs
1 x VCF (Voltage Controlled Filter) with 24dB/Octave Lowpass Filter with the classic Moog Ladder Filter topology. 20Hz-20KHz Frequency Response
1 x VCA (Voltage Controlled Amplifier)
Synthesizer Modifiers
1 ASD (Attack-Sustain-Decay) VCA Envelope
1 AD (Attack-Sustain-Decay) VCF Envelope
1 x LFO (Low Frequency Oscillator) with Triangle, Square, Sawtooth, and Ramp waveforms with adjustable amounts to the VCOs and VCF. The LFO is syncable to MIDI Clock or Tap Tempo
1 x Arpeggiator with Latch Mode for generating recurring musical patterns from Bass Pedal Input. The Arpeggiator is syncable to MIDI Clock or Tap Tempo
Programming Interface
52 Presets total in non-volatile memory consisting of one bank of 4 factory presets, and 12 banks of 4 user-programmable presets
Preset selection can be performed with the Value knob, or the combination of Bank footswitch, Bass Pedal, and Preset footswitch
Factory Presets include the classic Taurus, Bass, and Tuba presets, plus the new Taurus III preset
Two selectable levels of LED illuminated switches access the classic Taurus parameters or the Taurus 3 LFO and Arpeggiator parameters for editing with the Control Footwheel or the Value Knob
15-segment LED bargraph displays the value of the currently selected parameter
Classic Taurus Parameters in the OSCILLATOR section
B.FREQ: Oscillator B Frequency coarse offset to Oscillator A
BEAT: Oscillator B Frequency fine offset to Oscillator A
GLIDE: Glide Rate
OCTAVE: Low, Medium or High
MIX: sets the loudness ratio between Oscillators A and B
ATTACK: sets the Rise time for the VCA Envelope Generator when a note is played
SUSTAIN: sets the maximum level for the VCA Envelope Generator when a note is held
DECAY: sets the fall time for the VCA Envelope Generator when a note is released
Classic Taurus Parameters in the FILTER section
CUTOFF: sets the lowpass filter cutoff frequency
RESONANCE: sets the amount of signal fed from the output to the input of the lowpass filter. Can be set for filter self-oscillation
ATTACK: sets the Rise time for the VCF Envelope Generator when a note is played
DECAY: sets the fall time for the VCF Envelope Generator when a note is released
AMOUNT: sets how much the VCF cutoff frequency is modified by the VCF Envelope Generator signal
Taurus 3 Parameters in the LFO Section
SQUARE: Radio button type switch selects the LFO square waveform
TRIANGLE: Radio button type switch selects the LFO triangle waveform
RAMP: Radio button type switch selects the LFO ramp waveform
SAW: Radio button type switch selects the LFO sawtooth waveform
RATE: sets the LFO Rate
LFO FILTER AMOUNT: sets the amount the LFO modulates the filter cutoff frequency
LFO PITCH AMOUNT: sets the amount the LFO modulates the VCOs frequencies
LFO SYNC: On/Off switch enables starting the LFO waveform cycle with each note played on the Bass Pedals
Taurus 3 Parameters in the ARPEGGIATOR Section
PATTERN: sets the pattern of the arpeggiator
ORDER: sets the order that the pattern of the arpeggiator is output
OCTAVE: sets the number of octaves for the arpeggiator pattern
ON/OFF: turns the arpeggiator on or off
LATCH: turns the arpeggiator latch function on or off
VALUE knob is used for selecting presets or editing parameters
PRESET switch toggles between the current stored preset and its edited form
MASTER switch selects a menu of Advanced Preset functions, Global settings, and System Utilities
CURSOR switch navigates the screen of the LCD User Interface
STORE switch initiates the storing of presets
Field-upgradeable firmware using MIDI SysEx
MIDI Implementation
Presets selectable by MIDI Program Change messages
Taurus Sound engine can be played by MIDI Note messages
Preset parameters controllable by MIDI Control Change (CC) messages
Bass pedals transmit MIDI Note On/Note Off messages with user selectable velocity resolution
Volume Footwheel transmits MIDI CC 7 (Volume) data
Control Footwheel transmits MIDI CC corresponding to selected parameter
Presets and Global Settings can be sent or received through MIDI SysEx
I/O panel
HI-Z Output: output jack outputs the Taurus audio signal from the classic higher impedance Taurus output stage. For use with Bass Amplifier instrument inputs
LO-Z Output: output jack outputs the Taurus audio signal from a low impedance output stage. For use with line-level inputs
PITCH CV Input: TRS jack accepts expression pedal (such as Moog EP-2) or 0V to +5V Control Voltage inputs for modifying the VCOs frequencies
FILTER CV Input: TRS jack accepts expression pedal (such as Moog EP-2) or 0V to +5V Control Voltage inputs for modifying the VCF cutoff frequency
VOLUME CV Input: TRS jack accepts expression pedal (such as Moog EP-2) or 0V to +5V Control Voltage inputs for modifying the VCA gain
GATE Input: input jack accepts +5V gate signal for triggering the Taurus EGs
MIDI In: standard DIN MIDI input connector
MIDI Out: standard DIN MIDI output connector
USB: bi-directional USB MIDI port
Power Inlet: IEC connector accepts 90-250V AC 50-60 Hz
Power Switch: turns unit On or Off
Chassis Specifications
Rugged metal enclosure with steel feet, front panel, structural panels and extruded aluminum back panel
Nice trolling there, pal. But consider that Apple crap is made in shitty underpaid factories in China. Moog is made in the U.S., most likely by people not treated and paid like shit.
I can't see why you differentiate them...both Apple and Moog products are of high quality if we exclude that price factor and both are overpriced in many occasions, no matter where or by whom they are made.
Well to start with, I am the author of that webpage. I'm an EE and can competently disect a circuit to understand how it works.
Second, based on the strength of that webpage Moog invited me to the factory for a critical A/B comparison of the Taurus III against my Taurus I. It was just before it was released to production and they requested that I bring along my Taurus I. They already had a Taurus I there, but it was beat up and not 100% functional. My unit worked 100% and they liked the sound of that one better than the in-house unit.
They filmed our comparison session (Moog named me "Taurus Aficionado"):
While I have not heard the Minitaur, I can confirm that the TIII has nailed that elusive Taurus oomph and beefy sound, and I don't use that statement lightly as I have plenty of other vintage analogs that couldn't get that Taurus sound.
Taurus is the standard VCO->VCF->VCA architecture, but the reason it has sound a solid bass fundamental is because 1) the VCOs are driving the filter pretty hot 2) the AC coupling between the VCF and VCA has an inherent 20hz corner boost and 3) the OTAs in the filter and VCA are driven hard which puts them in the non-linear region, IE distortion of the waveshapes.
These traits were never duplicated until the T3. When I was at the factory, I quizzed Moog Chief Engineer Cyril Lance on circuit details (we are both EEs) and he confirmed they are all there. The crew said Cyril was maniacal about duplicating the sound of the original.
Some years ago I had lunch with Moog President Mike Adams and during our discussions about a Taurus reissue he said his idea was to repackage the Voyager analog circuit board as a Taurus reissue. I told him that was not going to work and proceeded to spell out the differences in the circuits that contribute to the sound of the Taurus. I am glad to see that he took my comments seriously.
__________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it. But lead a horse to liquor...
The blurb says:
•100% analog audio signal path based on Taurus I and Taurus III synthesizers.
•2 Taurus VCOs with variable Glide amount •Sawtooth (original Taurus)
Could it be less explicit?
That's exactly the video I was trying not to link to. Poorly executed in my opinion.
I think that the linear v/Hz oscillators cannot track accurately at the top end or something due to the design - although they can go pretty high as it happens. I'm a bit hazy on that so don't take it as fact.
Hi, I couldn't help but notice that when you responded to the question I asked another user that the reference you gave for your answer was one based in text. I was actually talking about sound and not the product description.
I also can't help but notice that you criticized another user for speaking out when he had not actually used the unit. I'm glad you had a change of heart and demonstrated it by doing the exact same thing.
Thanks for the answer despite your deficiencies in doing so though
I no longer have a simple monosynth... and need one!
I still lust after the Waldorf MiniWorks 4-pole ... but can't find one in the US.
I don't have room for another keyboard
I don't need patch memory
I don't like the sound of the little phatty.
SEM is too expensive
Don't need modulations all nutty like Dark Energy. Want to make music.. pretty pretty music...
You can still buy: a discrete analogue Eowave Domino, or a Vermona Mono Lancet, or an MFB Nanozwerg or a DSI Mopho..or some even more and capable used vintage synths for about the same price...
Well to start with, I am the author of that webpage. I'm an EE and can competently disect a circuit to understand how it works.
Would you want to venture any guesses as to how easy it would be to put that Taurus sound in a smaller, low cost package in 2012?
I was looking at the Taurus schematic. The circuit makes use of 3080s, which are out of production. Would the LM13700 with external buffers do a decent job of capturing that sound? I know that the Moogerfooger pedals I have make heavy use of LM13600s.
A question that needs to be answered is if the VCO detuning is the "constant" beat rate of the original Taurus, or is a more standard exponential "constant interval."
SHIIIET. You guys are cranky. Not everyone can have a model D for chissakes! Yes its limited, but theres got to be a big market for 'affordable' analog sound. $500 street seems like a damn fine price for a synth like this. Im allready considering adding this to my SP for an additional two vco's!
But im deffo a sound over features type of guy so i dont know, it just seems DOPE!
Honest question, what would you guys rather spend $500 on for bass? (sorry didnt read all the replies before i posted this)
__________________
Something that needs finishing...
Last edited by incurablebeatlus; 5th January 2012 at 12:21 AM..
Reason: read the rest of the replies regarding synths that compete..
the OTAs in the filter and VCA are driven hard which puts them in the non-linear region, IE distortion of the waveshapes.
Is the filter an OTA design like the SSM2040 or Roland IR3109?
Does it differ that much from other Moog filters? (transistor ladder)
I know next to nothing about such things, I'm just wondering how different it really sounds. I'll be eager to test a Minitaur when I can. How does the Taurus III sound at higher octaves?
You can still buy: a discrete analogue Eowave Domino, or a Vermona Mono Lancet, or an MFB Nanozwerg or a DSI Mopho..or some even more and capable used vintage synths for the about the same price...
thanks for the suggestions.
First off no Mopho.. need a decent interface.
None of those have 2 ENV's.. which is a must for me.
I also need a knob for glide. Which most of those don't have.
I'd love to hear more options out there... with MIDI btw. That's also a must.
I think the tight syncing of the 2 vco's at LF (to minimise cancellations) is a strength i was told, i dunno. Also, people seem to be making WAAAAAYYYY to big a deal about supposed SP tuning issues - yeah, it has different thermal dynamics to the LP so a different length of time for the tuning to stabilise, but when its warmed up is steady over hours. The minitaur looks good, its not for everyone of course.
Well to start with, I am the author of that webpage. I'm an EE and can competently disect a circuit to understand how it works.
Second, based on the strength of that webpage Moog invited me to the factory for a critical A/B comparison of the Taurus III against my Taurus I. It was just before it was released to production and they requested that I bring along my Taurus I. They already had a Taurus I there, but it was beat up and not 100% functional. My unit worked 100% and they liked the sound of that one better than the in-house unit.
They filmed our comparison session (Moog named me "Taurus Aficionado"):
While I have not heard the Minitaur, I can confirm that the TIII has nailed that elusive Taurus oomph and beefy sound, and I don't use that statement lightly as I have plenty of other vintage analogs that couldn't get that Taurus sound.
Taurus is the standard VCO->VCF->VCA architecture, but the reason it has sound a solid bass fundamental is because 1) the VCOs are driving the filter pretty hot 2) the AC coupling between the VCF and VCA has an inherent 20hz corner boost and 3) the OTAs in the filter and VCA are driven hard which puts them in the non-linear region, IE distortion of the waveshapes.
These traits were never duplicated until the T3. When I was at the factory, I quizzed Moog Chief Engineer Cyril Lance on circuit details (we are both EEs) and he confirmed they are all there. The crew said Cyril was maniacal about duplicating the sound of the original.
Some years ago I had lunch with Moog President Mike Adams and during our discussions about a Taurus reissue he said his idea was to repackage the Voyager analog circuit board as a Taurus reissue. I told him that was not going to work and proceeded to spell out the differences in the circuits that contribute to the sound of the Taurus. I am glad to see that he took my comments seriously.
You seem like a very important person. Because of that for the rest of this post I'm going to call you VIP.
VIP, the next time you have lunch with a Moogman can you ask them if it's ok to not have a beard while using one of their creamy fat smooth synthesizers?
Also, VIP, can you ask them why companies like DSI can afford to give away free gear to professional artists that have publicly supported them before but Moog can't?
VIP, do you think it's because Moog makes way less money than a company like dSI or is it perhaps that Moog didn't want to spoil their elite status by appearing as if anyone was actually good enough to be blessed with not having to pay for one of their legendary offerings even if that person already owned the rest of their lineup and was an outspoken fan of the company in major public interviews and other media outlets?
VIP, is Moog at risk of going bankrupt? Why is DSI so much more successful than the barely surviving Moog?
VIP, have I been tricked into thinking that Moog isn't doing well earnings wise?
VIP, these days when I'm inevitably asked about gear in interviews and such should I tell everyone that I think the people running Moog are greedy toolbags and that budding electronic musicians should only support DSI/Vermona etc? Or do you think I need to say they are super good so I can stay in the favor of the Moog elite club?
VIP, do you believe that my current tours or that my last album in which I used very little Moog will both start to fail once people know I stopped using my Moogs?
VIP, how much influence does the use of the elite Moog tone have on Grammy award nominations in your opinion?
VIP, if someone makes music everyone on Internet seems to hate because it's too mainstream starts making sure to tell everyone they use Moogs will they lessen the mainstream hate by knowledge of the hipster power of the Moogs on the album?
VIP, why is the 500 filter series so expensive? How is it different the the MF filter unit VIP?
VIP, I see from your words you have a lot of power as you single handedly convinced Moog to make a new Taurus THE RIGHT WAY (the Moog way) so if I may beg the favor VIP could you also suggest they bundle a fake beard kit with each new Moog so those among us that can't achieve a full beard can still be viewed as proper Moog users when we walk around in public?
Thanks for your help VIP
Moderator Message:
warning issued, please discuss in a respectful manner.
thank you
Honest question, what would you guys rather spend $500 on for bass? (sorry didnt read all the replies before i posted this)
Add to these suggestions a Trillian...it's not analogue hardware, but it can get you remarkably close to those grand analogue bass sounds for so less money....it can also give you much more sounds! Considering that you don't need crazy modulation in a bass synth, these sampling instruments can get really close with all those high quality multisamples...I still can't find something so close to a Minimoog bass preset from Trillian...well...it's a valid alternative IMO.
My two cents: It is the "legendary" Tarus bass synth without the pedals (or the patch storage of the new version of the pedals) for a very reasonable price. End of story. Either that is something you like (and I bet there are a lot of people who will really like it) or it isn't.
Also, VIP, can you ask them why companies like DSI can afford to give away free gear to professional artists that have publicly supported them before but Moog can't?
Did Buchla give you the 200e you've talked about in other posts?
Seriously, a lot of us are excited about this new Moog, as it seems reasonably affordable (whether it is a better deal than the SP is a legit question). Complaining about it because you aren't getting one for free seems kinda petty. Not all of us have the cash to spend on Buchlas or giant LED mouse helmets.
VIP, these days when I'm inevitably asked about gear in interviews and such should I tell everyone that I think the people running Moog are greedy toolbags and that budding electronic musicians should only support DSI/Vermona etc? Or do you think I need to say they are super good so I can stay in the favor of the Moog elite club?
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