2012 - Analog Mixer?? - Indecision

[gongbass]

So its the time of year that I look back at the accomplishments & failures of the last 12 months and look to improve on the good and learn from the bad. I tend to make a lot of lists as well.

One such list is "POSSIBLE GEAR TO BUY IN 2012". I do it each year and usually end up getting about 25% of what I consider. This past year was a pretty hefty year in terms of purchasing things, however I finally got around to selling some stuff I will absolutely never use. In the past I was kind of a horder. One item that continually shows up on my lists is "Analog Mixing Board"

I have a Roland VMC-7200 Digital Mixer which has served me well for nearly a decade. I don't mix or monitor through it, I merely use it to sum my overflow synths and weird effects. I have lots of good high end Pre's for 16 of my most important inputs. However the Roland's Pre's are at best transparent at low trim and dull and a little fuzzy in the mids when pushed. Not really an issue since the synths that I run through it are usually like 34th track in a song or are mangled ITB. I find myself being more and more drawn to getting a analog board to add a a few more useable channels, maybe route more of my outboard gear into my immediate workflow, instead of dealing with my patchbay all the time.

I do music for jingles/tv/industrials as my day job, as well as do e-session drum tracks from my home studio. My work flow is smooth and I can't say in any way that I need a analog board, I have lots of excellent hardware compressors for bus tracks. For this reason my budget isn't huge. However I have little to no interest in a low level Mackie mixer or equivalent.
I started there and there's no mojo and, in my opinion, no improvement in Pre's over the Roland board I'm using. The only board that really makes any sense is a Toft ATB. Its not a low level prosumer and sadly its not a high level board that I have no business buying like an SSL (which if I ever did more ensemble or band tracking, I might attempt).

6-7 grand is about what I can spend on a board if I go that route. I wanted to get a feel from others doing more synth based recording, if there's anything I'm missing that is in a similar category? I know A&H has the GSR24 (isn't that what its called?) but that seems like it does more than I really need and would perhaps sacrifice the EQ's and "warmth" of the Toft for features I have no use for. Again I know I'm not getting a Neve for 7K and don't expect any kind of magic but some smooth useable EQ's and Pre's coupled with the ability to slightly warm up some of my way to digital sounding mixes is what I'm getting at.

I appreciate any feedback from anyone that's gone the route of a decent analog desk for mostly digital music. (I track drums through good hardware pre's and kind of keep that set-up constantly in tact because I get a fair amount of fast turnover work so I'm not really concerned with that end).

[tvsky]

7k is a lot these days in the analog mixer world!

lots of options here

new : TOFT , GSR24 , MIDAS VENICE-F , some nice mid level soundcraft and A&H desks

Really depends on what you want here . The toft is very nice if you like that sound . It can be noisy and the build quality may not be quite as good as midas and A&H but it depends on who you talk to. Check out the venice-f , FW is built in like the GSR24 but its half the price and a good option if you don't need the GSR24 extras like tube channels , motor faders , meter bridge .

2nd hand: if your in the usa 7k will get you lots of consoles that cost up to 10x this amount once . lots of stuff in this range , soundcraft , soundtracs , dda , tascam , yamaha , the odd low end amek , who knows what you will find ! really its about what you want and whats avaliable . the things to consider on this are the the large format recording consoles of yester year are getting on , will require repair and support and are physically very large and heavy .

A slightly more compact option would be a higher end live desk like a midas , soundcraft or crest . these are still top notch audio but slightly more compact . with the live stuff make sure its been looked after and hasnt lived too hard a life .

think about this option carefully . its a bit like buying an old porsche , you can get it cheap but it can cost a lot to get it up to scratch and keep it there

[3phase]

for 6-7 k also a vintage studer portable console is an option.. especially the older models sound excellent when being serviced properly. transformer balanced I/Os.. but for 6-7 k only something like 12 channels, no groups just 2 sends.. but a solid warm sound.. high end like a big console.. just portable.

From the new stuff the toft looks intersting.. and midas is ok too...

however there are cheaper desks out there that would work better than the digi roland.. for synths it dont needs to be too highend..as long its has character and body..therefor i understand that you are not after a mackie here..

a second hand tac scorpio in good condition i not too bad when you want multiple busses and sends on a budget..

[the keester]

I run analog synths and an mpc 60 into an Oram (Trident) 8t mixer with great results. It's warm and rich sounding. I take advantage of the boards eq and generally don't add plugins when I'm in pro tools.

[Dirty Halo]

I've owned the Toft ATB24 alongside our main studio that had an SSL 4000E and I can tell you, the Toft holds its own for the money, big time. I honestly think it's THE best value.

I happened to also mod mine with Steve over at Inward Connections, which no one needs to do, but he did improve on the 2-buss and even with all THAT, it was well below your budget.

So, I can confidently recommend that for less than you have, then spend the rest on a really good 2-channel mic pre (which is the ONLY area that I thinkt he Toft can improve on, but who can blame them for how much you DO get).

I'm happy to answer any questions in greater detail.

Hope that helps!

-andrews

[gongbass]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm reluctant to go the "used" route simply because I'm not a commercial studio and don't have tech in and out often. I would rather just buy something and at least plan on it working for a few years before any issues occur.

I'm leaning toward getting V.2 of the Toft ATB 24 later in the year. For the $ it seems to be a pretty good value and isn't an absurd purchase for a home studio that does tv/film/industrial soudntracks and drum sessions. As for the Pre's I have 16 Channels of high end stuff that I run my drum mics and "vital" synths through. The Roland Pre's are only used for these overflow tracks that aren't in need of great headroom or mojo. To be fair the VMC-7200 Pre's are actually OK when not pushed. For synth pads or even some leads it pretty transparent. It adds nothing but it doesn't distort or subtract either. I've A/B'd it to say my Pacifica and sure the Pacifica beat it but it wasn't night and day.

I'm simply looking for some useable channels to run the said overflow synths, drum machines , effects through and perhaps the odd synth bus to get some analog warmth and of course the Trident EQ's. If I need real drive, warmth, shimmer... I'll just use one of my high end pre's and spend the 3 minutes it takes to change XLR's.

My budget is about 7K. It looks like the Toft will run me about 6 and the meter bridge another 700 hundred bucks. So that pretty much eats up the money I'm thinking of spending. I'm also thinking of a Korg Kronos 88 and perhaps I can get all at once and Sweetwater will do me a little for everything...

The A&H GSR24M is also a possibility. I use a Roland VS2480 (which I still use for some remote recording) as a Fader controller for DP and it works fine but it would be great to have a board that did both however then we're up to 10k. The GSR24 is @ 8k but add the motorized faders and its up to 10. The issue there is I don't know anyone that has one and really want to hear the Pre's and EQ before I'd drop that kind of money. I know friends with Toft's and all are pretty happy (although all say they are a little loud when you push them) and I will spend some time at their places A/B the board to some of their pre-amps and EQ's that bypass the board.

At the end of the day the GSR24 is ideal if it sounds good but it's just a lot of $ to spend on something I don't NEED but just kind of want. Dirty Halo its kind of a vague question to ask someone but judging from what I'm using the board for and the fact that I DO have lots of great hardware Pre's & Compressors with character do you think the Toft is a good move? I'd actually considering the IC guys doing some mods b/c I've heard excellent things about their Mix690 units.

[Syn303]

Lucky that you have 6-7k to spend on a mixing desk, i'm trying to convince myself to get an A&H GS3 that's about US $600. I just can't find enough solid reviews of this desk to go and buy one.

I'd happily spend your money on buying a nice mixing desk for myself!

[living sounds]

I'd get an older quality mixer like a Soundcraft Delta and have it modded by a qualified expert like Jim Williams.

[Reptil]

adding the the (already excellent) advise: Speck Electronics LiLo.
you'll need to add EQ yourself.

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by Reptil

adding the the (already excellent) advise: Speck Electronics LiLo.
you'll need to add EQ yourself.

And if you don't need faders and trimpots are fine then the Xtramix might be the ticket. You can add EQ channels. I added a Speck Project 16 used and you can completely bypass the channels if you aren't using them. The Speck will help to eliminate the patch bay scenario with your outboard effects devices. It sounds really good.

[kraku]

Why not buy SSL X-Desk & SSL X-Panda?

[Depressionman]

I am really curious how many of sale reps and marketing personas are flawing this forum with one and only reason.To sell you anything you don't need.

[Arthur Stone]

Originally Posted by Depressionman

I am really curious how many of sale reps and marketing personas is flawing this forum with one and only reason.To sell you anything you don't need.

IMO, whether they are salesmen or not, the advice given is accurate (based on the general consensus). Personally I like the fact that GS has a range of members - manufacturers, sellers, buyers, owners and ex-owners...the truth is out there...somewhere...

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Depressionman

I am really curious how many of sale reps and marketing personas is flawing this forum with one and only reason.To sell you anything you don't need.

Please specifically quote the post and person here you think is a sales person.

-a

[Oliver Chesler]

Noisy but awesome and cheap... that one is on eBay now for about $180 (not mine)... BOSS KM-60 – 6-channel vintage mixer in great shape | eBay

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Depressionman

I am really curious how many of sale reps and marketing personas is flawing this forum with one and only reason.To sell you anything you don't need.

Originally Posted by Arthur Stone

IMO, whether they are salesmen or not, the advice given is accurate (based on the general consensus). Personally I like the fact that GS has a range of members - manufacturers, sellers, buyers, owners and ex-owners...the truth is out there...somewhere...

Hear that pin drop?

(Way too many of these armchair crusaders )

[Depressionman]

Its so simple to create multiple virtual identities.