I want my first hardware processor on master buss!

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Greg_KPX

^ I've been using an SPL Kultube for my master buss and its surgically clean, even when you drive the signal through the on board tube section. It does thicken the sound a little but doesn't trash it even at aggressive settings... worth a look if you can find one for testing.

did you try it with the Lundahl transformers on the in and output?
did you try it with some NOS tubes? (doesn't have to be Telefunken)
Can be ECC81/12AT7/CV4024 as well!
please do?

Originally Posted by Jerry104

Budget is ~$2000. I'm gonna test avalon 747 this weekend and see what it has to offer.

I heard a lot of negative things about it, but when I tried it, it's actually a very nice processor. The best thing is the EQ section, and the overall sound is controlled, and ehm how do I say this? It feels like a diamond surface, hard with lots of cold and well defined sparkle in the highs.
compared to the compressor in it, the API 2500 is like a steel battleaxe; way more power.

[fooddude]

Dang...this thread is making me lust for that Red Iron Buffer.

Is it really that good? Seems really inexpensive for what you get and looks like a great deal.

I always needed a real amp to occasionally run solo instruments though and also a turntable for sampling through (instead of using a cheapy Ecler dj mixer).

So would this Red Iron Buffer be also good over the entire mix-buss??? I would like more treatment and color over my entire mix buss as well. I already plan to get a R2R for more color, tape sat and compression; but lagging a little on buying one as Rvox's and Otari's are a little expensive (soon though). Also plan on putting a cheaper decent compressor over tha entire mix-buss for more control and sound shaping, maybe a pair of dbx 160x/a, a compounder or overstayer.

I don't know much about pre-amps and their exact effects over an entire song/mix-buss...so would putting an entire mix through something like a Red Iron Buffer be advisable??? If so, what would be the advantages and improvements? I am sure it doesn't "glue" the mix, compress freqs, shape the dynamics, etc like a compressor would, correct? ..maybe just amp it up, maybe distort and colorize the sound?

[rolo]

Im not crazy about anything on the master buss... i prefer to nail things in the mix and leave the rest to the mastering stage, BUT, i have done the master buss thing at clients requests. I have had success with the following

Thermionic Culture Phoenix non ME. This one sounded the best with nice detail, imaging and still managing to glue things together.

Pendulum PL2... GREAT Limiter.

BFE Filtek EQ's... even though they are eq's and not compressors,there is still some glue going on on these babies. sweet sounds abound.

on the cheaps... ART VLA Original with NOS Mullard, tele or RCA tubes. dont let the price fool ya. It's a great box with the tube upgrade.

And again... all of these tools can be used in the mastering stage as opposed to the master buss.

[kungfugeek]

I can't recommend the Overstayer VCA enough. Excellent glue and very useful and musical EQ. Affordable too!

[audslu]

Indeed the best warmth you can get is how you mix, far better than any compressor. Having said that, Drawmer 1968 is the closest to waht you re asking for. About the comps you mention in the op, api is slow for edm mixes for me, ssl is nice but has no coloration if that's what you want, it's very transparent, and the distressor is not for edm mixes so much i think either, it's very good for tracking. To warm your synths up, Vintech 1272 is a very good pre, far below 2K with lots of character. These are out of your budget but worth mentioning: la-610mk2 is an excellent choice but it's one channel, you 'll need two for stereo use, also fatso is ideal for such use and even better imo the germanium comps (1 ch also).

Here's a nice link for you, knock yourself out! :
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5350529-post59.html

Another good one (not in the link) is the xpressor clean and punchy suitable for dance mixes, great sound for it's price, better than bc1 imo.

Whatever comp you buy for the master bus just make sure it has sc hpf, u 'll need it for this kind of music!

[backplay]

Originally Posted by nms

I'm surprised no one's said this.. But truthfully it sounds like your goal won't be achieved by throwing money at it. It's all in the mix. If your mix doesn't sound big/full/whatever other adjectives it won't come slapping anything on the master no matter how good. The master compressor and limiter is only the final touch on an already great/big sounding mix.

In case you missed it...

[fooddude]

what about the overstayer? fast? colorful? ...I read it's clean...so maybe not for edm.?

[sftd]

Originally Posted by fooddude

what about the overstayer? fast? colorful? ...I read it's clean...so maybe not for edm.?

Why is clean not good for EDM?

[Jerry104]

Originally Posted by backplay

In case you missed it...

Do you suggest i should get the analog synth instead?

[sftd]

Originally Posted by Jerry104

Do you suggest i should get the analog synth instead?

Only if purity of waveform is absolute shall you obtain the golden tone of which you quest.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App

[nms]

I'll put it this way.. I'm a serious analog hardware lover and have spent around $25k this past year.. Yet I use The Glue vst compressor on my master with no complaints or plans to replace it anytime soon. Love it. Mind you, I literally can't remember the last time I used a soft synth. Eventually when I have money that isn't better spent on something else I'll grab an SSL and just use The Glue as a placeholder. Everything is easier and more fun when you start with a better source.

Moog Slim Phatty or little phatty, Mopho, Tetra keyboard, Nord Lead, Virus TI, Poly Evolver, Juno 6/60/106, Distressor, LA-610... These are the things I think would put the biggest smile on your face when dropping $2k.

[backplay]

Originally Posted by Jerry104

Do you suggest i should get the analog synth instead?

No, i would suggest improving your mixing skills first.
And paying more attention to individual sounds rather than the complete mix.
Make your sounds as fat as possible, as early as possible. Preferably at the source.

Putting something on the master buss isn't going to give you instant gratification.
It's not going to compensate for bad decisions during tracking/mixing.

If you really want something to help your mixes sound warmer and deeper, i would suggest one of the many saturation/console/tube/tape emulations and put them on all (or only the channels that benefit from it) your individual channels.
Or re-amp all the individual channels true some real tape/saturation...
The sum of all those parts will be much greater than by slamming something on the 2-buss.

If i put, for example, an API2500 on my 2-buss, and it sounds much better.
For me that only proves there is room for improvement during the mixing stage.
There shouldn't be a big difference between the two in my opinion.
If the difference is to big, than you loose the initial intention you had during mixing. It could also be a good decision off course.

The main thing that improved my mixes wasn't new gear (I haven't bought something new in 4 years ), it simply was practicing a lot.

But.... Nothing beats a good HW compressor on the 2-buss!!!
If you want to buy some new gear, there are a lot of good suggestions in this thread!


(The 2-buss is actually the domain of the mastering engineer, and we shouldn't even think of touching it...)

[ionian]

[Dbas]

Well I put whatever the hell I want on the 2bus. Just do what works for you. Don't let someone tell you what you can and can't use, that's bull.

[Reptil]

HEADS UP !!!

by chance I see Mono-Poly is selling some rare and awesome compressors!
check out the WSW (Rupert Neve got his inspiration from those!!)
and the EMT (for cleaner)

classy shit!

woggle-bug | eBay

[Fred_Abstract]

Originally Posted by Jerry104

I mix completely ITB so using only soft synths make my mixes kinda cold sounding. I`m looking for a unit that might help me make it a bit warmer. I understand that one piece of gear cant make it but I`m sure there are units that will add subtle but noticable character/color/saturation to the mix..

lot of gears that are discussed in this forum are way too subbtle for electronic music to make a real difference, you will need at least a chain of few processors to really enhance the sound unless you go for something with lot of color, like a culture vulture or some "vintage" gears, this will give your softsynths and mix a new dimension way more than a pair of distressor or api 2500 or a ssl comp
(it s far too clean for electronic producers that are after lot of analog coloration and using softsynths as source)

To try get ride of the itb and softsynth sound ,all the gears that can be too much colorfull to use and abuse on some usual modern music like rock are good candidat, on individual tracks and then on the 2 bus :D (but best would be to fix the problem at the source and replace some softsynth with some hardware synth you really enjoy the sound)

[errorspending]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

+1

If the origin is sh1tty, the result will be sh1tty.





See above. I don't mean it disrespectful. If my ITB sound is thin or static, then I did something wrong. So I change the sound, before I punch in e.g. my Massive Passive to correct that.

I wasn't saying the original sound source was thin or static...it was a recording of live drums. I'm just saying the character of the compression was less lively, organic, non-linear etc no matter how I set up the compression.


And +1 for Fred. I agree completely

[fooddude]

Im really eying that red iron buffer for the mix buss... cant go wrong with tubes, no? ..especially when color and warmth is the goal.

[SWAN808]

Overstayer VCA or FET on mixbuss followed by the line driver for colour

[dbluefield]

Got the API 2500 - great for drums, like many have said before -- its great....

Has no one mentioned the Obsidian?

Its an awesome box -- not only for jelling a mix, but tracking too. I love it. The transformers really help make things less digitally harsh -- taming transients and keeping the low end tight with internal high pass filter. Way better for the 2 buss IMO because of simplicity!

I haven't found much use for the low fi setting yet (anyone wanna chime in here?) - cause it lives on the 2 buss. True bypass to see what its doing. Simple stupid controls for threshold and release (release set to auto 99% of the time), attack 10 ms.

Some guy from tape-op raved about it awhile back. I listened. This solved all the 2 buss wannabe things for me, like build your own; console units etc, vintage etc.

Its a priced pass your 2k mark (2.7)- but I recommend it highly.


Best,

Mack

[ionian]

Originally Posted by dbluefield

Has no one mentioned the Obsidian?

Its an awesome box -- not only for jelling a mix, but tracking too. I love it. The transformers really help make things less digitally harsh -- taming transients and keeping the low end tight with internal high pass filter. Way better for the 2 buss IMO because of simplicity!

I haven't found much use for the low fi setting yet (anyone wanna chime in here?) - cause it lives on the 2 buss. True bypass to see what its doing. Simple stupid controls for threshold and release (release set to auto 99% of the time), attack 10 ms.

Some guy from tape-op raved about it awhile back. I listened. This solved all the 2 buss wannabe things for me, like build your own; console units etc, vintage etc.

Its a priced pass your 2k mark (2.7)- but I recommend it highly.


Best,

Mack

I have an Obsidian and that thing will get buried with me when I die!

I agree - the auto release is so good, I leave it there for most of the stuff as well.

As for lo-fi, I've found use for it in parallel, smashing the drum buss! Blend it back in and it's a great, trashy sound! I also used lo-fi once on a really wimpy snare I had on a track. Just enough lo-fi compression to make the snare crackle a bit and it really helped.

It really excels on drum bus as well as master bus. I keep trying other comps on the drum bus, but I've yet to find something that can do the job better than the Obsidian. 10ms, .1 rel, ratio and threshold as you see fit!

At AES, I got to see the obsidan in action with the expansion! The one that makes it dual-mono. It's pricey - (In the 2K range as well since it has most of the same internals as the obsidian) but seeing an obsidian crunch in stereo, with two meters was really cool.

Jon, the creator told me that it's also a tiny bit wider using the Obsidian+expansion for stereo since it's using a stereo sidechain and looking at each side independently rather then just summing the sidechain to mono.

Also, with the expansion, the extra XLR ins/outs become sidechain ins/outs! And they're usable with the hp-pass filter. Great stuff!

Regards,
Frank

[dbluefield]

As for lo-fi, I've found use for it in parallel, smashing the drum buss! Blend it back in and it's a great, trashy sound! I also used lo-fi once on a really wimpy snare I had on a track. Just enough lo-fi compression to make the snare crackle a bit and it really helped.

It really excels on drum bus as well as master bus. I keep trying other comps on the drum bus, but I've yet to find something that can do the job better than the Obsidian. 10ms, .1 rel, ratio and threshold as you see fit!

Thanks for the tips -- working on a clean sort of record --not smashing too much drums -- but I will!!!!

[audslu]

Hey reptil, do u think nos or mullard tubes would be an improvement for my vitalizer mk2-t?
Any recommendations are welcome.

[TJP]

Just saw the bc-1 in aciviis rack