man does reason 6 sound good!!!!

[seancostello]

Originally Posted by Don Solaris

Goodbye guardchange.

Awww! I had a few relevant things I wrote about AAX in the forum thread that he started on that topic! On the other hand, I can always discuss AAX issues in non-troll-guy-reality threads. The loss of a few of my posts is acceptable collateral damage in this case.

Anyway, Reason...um, I don't own it, as it isn't a plugin host (I have to buy most of the DAWs to test my plugins). It looks cool. Jonti Picking uses Reason for all of his cartoons (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/), and I like the music in those. I'll just wander off now...

[poserp]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

True, but I imagine not every Reason 5 owner also had Record . So, if you only had R5 R6 would probably sound better.

So, to distill the thread... The main issue is using the 14:2 mixer in Reason to do all of your mixing vs using the mixing console emulation that Propellerheads created for Record and which is now merged with Reason as of v6.

To test the "sound" of the 14:2 vs the console emulation, take a Reason 6 track and wire it using the 14:2 mixer instead of the console emulation. For a really busy track it might take awhile to rewire the rack, but I'm pretty sure you'll end up with same "sound" you'd get out of prior versions of Reason that don't have the console emulation. Compare this with the same track through the console, with no eq, no compression, and volume levels matched as closely as possible.

If I can find time I'll try to find one of those "multitrack" downloads (i.e. the individual tracks for a song, a-la Bohemian Rhapsody) and set this up so all the source material is the same.

[sftd]

Originally Posted by poserp

So, to distill the thread... The main issue is using the 14:2 mixer in Reason to do all of your mixing vs using the mixing console emulation that Propellerheads created for Record and which is now merged with Reason as of v6.

To test the "sound" of the 14:2 vs the console emulation, take a Reason 6 track and wire it using the 14:2 mixer instead of the console emulation. For a really busy track it might take awhile to rewire the rack, but I'm pretty sure you'll end up with same "sound" you'd get out of prior versions of Reason that don't have the console emulation. Compare this with the same track through the console, with no eq, no compression, and volume levels matched as closely as possible.

If I can find time I'll try to find one of those "multitrack" downloads (i.e. the individual tracks for a song, a-la Bohemian Rhapsody) and set this up so all the source material is the same.

The mixer is without a shadow of a doubt the difference.

I've already tested three tracks a couple weeks ago in exactly the manner you spoke.

Night and day. It's all in that mixer difference wise.

[MixxWizard]

I'm still wondering far as recording some quick vocals. Which of the 2 DAWs give you a better sound, between Ableton Live 8, & Reason 6? Lets leave the big boys out this discussion(Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, & etc....)

[sftd]

In the song in my post above those vocals were just a single take, no dubs, through a basic Shure Beta 58 directly into interface pres.

Considering all that I think they turned out ok for such poor circumstances.

Would you like me to record some on both Abes and R6 real quick so that you can compare?

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App

[AJ Reynolds]

Originally Posted by MixxWizard

I'm still wondering far as recording some quick vocals. Which of the 2 DAWs give you a better sound, between Ableton Live 8, & Reason 6? Lets leave the big boys out this discussion(Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, & etc....)

i've always thought Ableton sounded different to everything else. in a bad way too.

[teknatronik]

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

i've always thought Ableton sounded different to everything else. in a bad way too.

sounds narrow to me.

[jlw]

lol

[foodeater]

Reason with air display on iPad is interesting. I dig it. I'll be repurchasing Reason when I exhaust all the possibilities with my current gear! Might be a few years from now.

[bitleyTM]

If you have Reason there is a new song contest on Pheads Users forum right now. The judge for the competition is no other than Heaven 17 / BEF / Human League / Vince Clarke collaborator Martyn Ware.

Here's a little info clip on it.



Regards,
Patrick

[bJb]

Does anybody know where I can get some good Reasons sampled drums? I have Reasons 4. I would like some good hip hop drums 808 etc. Somebody help please.

[Yoozer]

1) wrong thread, this is about Reason 6

2) SuperAnalog808 - ask for .wav files, you can load these up easily in ReDrum.

[LUCOZADER]

Originally Posted by digitalson

i downloaded the version 6 demo and to me it sounds way better than ver 5.....
thoughts?

woudnt know cant afford it, wonder why.

[nlduhon]

Originally Posted by HomeProducer

the reason there is no midi out is because they are too stupid.

Reason 1: they cannot do it

Reason 2: they can do it, but they see no need or no market.

Reason 3: they have no man power to care for midi, wrong investment because of stupid management.

As proved, in either case they are to stupid to go for midi out.

They hire hardware designers now.

Now we can expect some crappy audio device more from Propellerheads.
Is that silly, man ...

That is a really silly theory. I believe that reason will stay a stand alone, self contained program because.

Reason 1 : If you introduce VST support, why would propellerheads bother upgrading their product? People would stop buying new versions.

Reason 2 : Same with midi out, they want to keep the program self contained. On the prop forum, that is one of the biggest requests.

I think reason is capable of synthasizing any sound pretty much any plug in or synth can, just takes know how...

[nlduhon]

Originally Posted by sftd

The mixer is without a shadow of a doubt the difference.

I've already tested three tracks a couple weeks ago in exactly the manner you spoke.

Night and day. It's all in that mixer difference wise.

I totally agree, you have the ability to sculpt and fine tune your sounds with the new reason mixer much more to the previous haggard mixer they had. I always hated that thing.....

[Itsmorning]

I use a win 7 tablet with reason 5 and find it much quicker using a wacom pen. Reason also works the best with the tablet out of all the daws i've tried. If you truly enjoy reason like I recommend at least trying it as it has made the experience more enjoyable for me

I want to upgrade for the better mixer but would that make a difference if i already rewire each instrumental individually to program like live or cubase?

[HomeProducer]

Originally Posted by nlduhon

Reason 2 : Same with midi out, they want to keep the program self contained. On the prop forum, that is one of the biggest requests.

I think reason is capable of synthasizing any sound pretty much any plug in or synth can, just takes know how...

there is an idiot test for Reason: how far can a customer believe the self contained bullshit. With VST its clear, no VST -> more stability. With midi the opposite is also clear -> introduce midi, no change in stability and program becomes even more self-contained. So anyone who doesn't see that is kind of mentally "blind".

By the way, I sold my Reason license, never looked back!

[cbdrummer44]

Agreed. Amazing.

Reason had such a distinct sound before, it's so much better now. Has completely replaced Pro Tools for remix work for me. Hopefully they add video capability to make it a real scoring tool!!!

[Rogue Ai]

Originally Posted by HomeProducer

there is an idiot test for Reason: how far can a customer believe the self contained bullshit. With VST its clear, no VST -> more stability. With midi the opposite is also clear -> introduce midi, no change in stability and program becomes even more self-contained. So anyone who doesn't see that is kind of mentally "blind".

By the way, I sold my Reason license, never looked back!

If Reason had midi out, I'd stop using Cubase right now unless I need to use vsts.

[Dogboy73]

Originally Posted by Rogue Ai

If Reason had midi out, I'd stop using Cubase right now unless I need to use vsts.

92% of Reason users agree with you

https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/...d.php?t=140316

[bigcohoona]

Originally Posted by sftd

I have discovered in only five days time that Reason (plus keyboard!) truly is everything I need.

I haven't been this in love with an instrument since I was six years old.

I'm so excited!

To think that in 3 years time I've spent close to 85k USD in my personal search and have had it finally feel concluded with a $400 piece of software is rather absurd as well. Absurd on my part that is.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App

I just purchased the update.. thanks for the feedback. I loved the demo as well and have about as much as you sunk into various VST's/AU's, other "DAWs"

My only issue with Reason is that there is very little out there (that I've been able to find) which competes sonically with the likes of Omnisphere and Kontakt based libraries such as Heavyocity's Evolve or Morphestra...

Have you (or anyone else) found sample libraries to compete with these?

I have Reason Pianos, SR's Gold, Miroslav, almost everything from Sonic Flavours/Soundcells, but still find it hard to find sample based libraries on par with the likes of 8Dio, etc.

What does everyone else here use.. are you using it for professional production? Gigging?

Thanks,

CWC

[daveashe]

Originally Posted by bigcohoona

My only issue with Reason is that there is very little out there (that I've been able to find) which competes sonically with the likes of Omnisphere and Kontakt based libraries such as Heavyocity's Evolve or Morphestra...

Have you (or anyone else) found sample libraries to compete with these?

There is a lot of work involved, but its possible to convert Kontakt libraries to NNXT for use in Reason only if they are unprotected.

Chicken Systems Translator can do the job, but be prepared for a few crashes along the way. It does a good job but does crash after converting a certain number of files.

If they are protected kontakt files, the only way is to (multi-)sample them.

Also, Gigasampler format-based libraries can be converted.

Then, using the latest refill packer you can pack a lot more than the older packer could which could only pack around 2Gb, now its a bit more than double that.

You can then save more than half your disk space on these libraries (by converting them to refills) - the only trouble is that if the library is very large NNXT does not stream the libraries from disk so you will have to take that into account.

[travisinhell]

Reason doesn't have a sound. Does a synth, eq, compressor, or other device in Reason sound different than other software devices? Yes. This stuff about the "audio engine" and the "ssl emulation" is a myth, though. If you hear something different about the eq or comps in the ssl, it is just that, a difference from other eqs and comps. That doesn't mean that the mixer itself or the "audio engine" is doing anything to the sound. If you want to prove this to yourself, run some tracks through Reason and compare the render to any other host. Just keep in mind that matching levels and pan laws, and turning off eqs and comps, has to be taken into consideration.

Maybe the McGurk effect is at play here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0

[dconerocks]

Originally Posted by Mefistophelees

Earlier this year I was looking for a DAW and was all ready to get a copy of reason record duo. It looked great, lots of instruments and effects etc, etc.

I was literally days away from ordering it when I discovered it didn't do MIDI out.

It's good that it sounds good and all that but why on earth do they make it incompatible with external gear? How many thousands of customers are they losing because of this?

so what external machine can you connect to reason 6 if not every midi can be hooked up to it.yeah this is red flag city.

[ctrlshft]

Originally Posted by Rogue Ai

If Reason had midi out, I'd stop using Cubase right now unless I need to use vsts.

Nearly ditto for me. Cubase still edits audio better, but other than that... hmm....

[skeli]

Originally Posted by travisinhell

Reason doesn't have a sound. Does a synth, eq, compressor, or other device in Reason sound different than other software devices? Yes. This stuff about the "audio engine" and the "ssl emulation" is a myth, though. If you hear something different about the eq or comps in the ssl, it is just that, a difference from other eqs and comps. That doesn't mean that the mixer itself or the "audio engine" is doing anything to the sound. If you want to prove this to yourself, run some tracks through Reason and compare the render to any other host. Just keep in mind that matching levels and pan laws, and turning off eqs and comps, has to be taken into consideration.

Maybe the McGurk effect is at play here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0

That's exactly what I did with Record & Pro Tools, and I heard a difference. Granted, Record is not Reason 6 (although I believe they share the same audio engine). I listened in the same visual environment (Mac OSX Finder's 'Quick Look' feature) as well, to try and eliminate that variable (McGurk effect?). I'm not perfect, so it's entirely possible I'm mistaken. You can find my posts with audio files here: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/629507-propellerhead-introduce-reason-6-a-post6857524.html

[travisinhell]

Originally Posted by skeli

That's exactly what I did with Record & Pro Tools, and I heard a difference. Granted, Record is not Reason 6 (although I believe they share the same audio engine). I listened in the same visual environment (Mac OSX Finder's 'Quick Look' feature) as well, to try and eliminate that variable (McGurk effect?). I'm not perfect, so it's entirely possible I'm mistaken. You can find my posts with audio files here: Propellerhead introduce Reason 6 - Page 3 - Gearslutz.com

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but going on your posts in that thread, you recorded a part from your keyboard into different hosts, and you are using that as the basis for comparison. When you record separate tracks, there will be tiny variances between recording passes, even when using the same host to record the source - the keyboard's electronics, MIDI timing, interface electronics and converters, will all add up to some minor variance. Try taking the same source wav file(s) and render through each host, or set up Rewire with the same wav file(s) inserted in your host and in Reason. The wav files should null. One thing to keep in mind, if you use Rewire, the playback sample accuracy might vary a bit, and you might need to move the playback cursor and press play/stop a few times to get everything dead on. I just did this with Reason rewired to Reaper. There is no point in uploading a render, because the tracks nulled. Also, I turned on the channel comp (set for 0 threshold), channel eq (all bands at 0 gain), and bus comp (threshold at 0). Same result. If you want to try this, make sure that the track in Reaper has a pan setting of 'stereo pan', and that the ssl bus comp make-up gain is the same as the Reaper track gain. I don't have Record, but I imagine that the result will be the same as it is for Reason.

[skeli]

I recorded 1 part on my Fantom, fired up one host, hit record, then hit play on on the Fantom. I repeated the process for the other host with the same exact recorded part. I would think that there should be no difference in the scource by simply pressing play on the Fantom within a matter of minutes from one host to another. I can see your point though in using a wav file instead to rule out as many variables as possible. The reason I tested it the way I did is because everytime I would *record audio into* Record, I felt it sounded thin and more digital compared to my other DAWs. Typically I'm recording parts from my keyboard or vocals, so it made sense to use the keyboard (seeing as how vocal takes wouldn't have been identical). I guess I could retry my testing using your method described above.

Thanks,

Skeli

[Ohx]

Reason sucks and it sounds like crap, everyone who has it should sell it and only idiots like me who like stuff that sounds like crap/weak/thin/cold/whatever should be the poor few who use it.

In fact it sucks so bad it's not even worth selling. I will accept delivery of any and all ignition keys so they can be properly destroyed in the pit of bad sound.

PM me for my address

[travisinhell]

Originally Posted by skeli

I recorded 1 part on my Fantom, fired up one host, hit record, then hit play on on the Fantom. I repeated the process for the other host with the same exact recorded part. I would think that there should be no difference in the scource by simply pressing play on the Fantom within a matter of minutes from one host to another. I can see your point though in using a wav file instead to rule out as many variables as possible. The reason I tested it the way I did is because everytime I would *record audio into* Record, I felt it sounded thin and more digital compared to my other DAWs. Typically I'm recording parts from my keyboard or vocals, so it made sense to use the keyboard (seeing as how vocal takes wouldn't have been identical). I guess I could retry my testing using your method described above.

Thanks,

Skeli

Maybe the only way to convince yourself that there is no difference in sound when recording with different daws is to do a blind listening test. There will be variances in the sound, only due to the signal path, but even those will be extremely difficult to pick out in a blind test. It's kind of funny how our perceptions can be skewed by what we read, gui's, price, and other factors. A little reality check (blind test) here and there can help in straightening things out, though.