Integrating Drum Machines and Sequencers into a Hybrid Studio

[Rooftree]

Here's yet another drum machine thread . . . .

I recently picked up a Yamaha RY30 and a TR-606. I absolutely LOVE both of them! The RY30 is flexible and simple to use, has great pads for tapping out drum patterns in real time, and I can even record bass lines in it. The 606 has a simple step sequencer for instant gratification and easy track building. I can already see that these two will fill a big void in my setup and in my workflow.

And now for the tricky part . . . I'm at a loss for how to integrate them with my other gear and my DAW. I understand MIDI and CV just fine. The part I'm missing is finding a straightforward way of getting everybody to talk to everybody else (and to be on the same clock) since I have a mixture of MIDI and CV gear.

Here's what I have:mixer: Mackie 1204VLZ3

audio interface: UA-25EX (stereo in/out)
MIDI interface and patch bay: 2x UM-550
DAW: PC with Sonar 8.5
Korg 01W
FS1R
Prophet 08
Juno-60 (no MIDI; I might install the Minerva upgrade)
Roland JSQ-60
CS-30 (Hz/V CV and gate in/out)

I'm looking for a hardware solution since I keep the computer turned off when jamming and practicing. But I also want the ability to send rhythm tracks to my DAW as MIDI. I guess my options could include a multi-channel Kenton CV-MIDI converter, adding MIDI kits to the old synths, or maybe replacing the RY30 and TR-606 with some sort of magical do-it-all box groove box.

Anybody want to steer me towards a piece of equipment (or pieces?) that will give me easy to use hardware sequencing and drum tracks that can drive my modern and vintage synths?

[wax808]

I've always liked using an MPC1000 to sync multiple pieces of hardware. It has 2x midi in and 2x midi out that can merge.

It also has 6 assignable outputs. Nice piece of gear.

[Morechips]

Check out these guys -

Engineers@work

they have various cheap solutions that may help you.

[blinky909]

Roland MSQ-700 - cheap and very easy to operate. i was actually thinking of getting one again to build up simple grooves. very musical timing and quantizing. you still need a MIDI to CV box, but if you just want to get 8 tracks going in a groovy jam, the MSQ-700 is worth it esp. since they run $100-150. safe as houses.

[tvsky]

Originally Posted by wax808

I've always liked using an MPC1000 to sync multiple pieces of hardware. It has 2x midi in and 2x midi out that can merge.

It also has 6 assignable outputs. Nice piece of gear.

+1

[Morechips]

Follow on from my previous post -

You just need Midi to din sync for the 606.

If as a couple of other contributers seem to think you are also looking for a hardware sequencer....yup! the MPC1000 is great, combine that with the midi to trigger unit from engineersatwork and you have a nice foot in both worlds.

[Reptil]

4 different choices

1. you can add a Kenton midi-cv/gate interface (that would be my choice)
you can use this interface with the midi interface of the computer, but also with seperate (midi) keyboards or hardware sequencers (midi) like that MPC1000 that was mentioned: the MPC1000 will be MUCH tighter than the UM-550 - I caved in last december and got one too.
Kenton PRO 2000 Mk II
as a module
A-190
a n a l o g u e h a v e n : k i l p a t r i c k a u d i o

2. very interesting if you want a TIGHT groove are these two products, which supply an analogue and midi clock from your computer, independent from the midi interface (it matters)
both generate clock from audio so you'll lose audio outputs. option 3 or 4 are more interesting for you since you got one stereo output.
Innerclock Systems - Precision Midi Clock Din Sync and Tempo Synchronisation Solutions
SND ACME-4 Advanced Clock Management Engine

3. an analogue clock generator from a midi source
or this one which has some extra tricks:
a n a l o g u e h a v e n
for dinsync you'd need a little adapter cable.

4. a module that makes cv/gate/analogue clock from SPDIF (of your Roland ua-25EX) Expert Sleepers - ES-4 SPDIF/CV Interface
- you can put this in a small case like this: http://www.doepfer.de/A100_Mini_red.jpg
this would be my second choice. but then you're dependent on the computer always for midi and cv/gate.

if you want CV -> midi there's the Moon 552
I haven't seen many other good CV->midi converters. please feel free to correct me on that?


and if you want to drive your computer or any midi gear with a sequencer with your analogue groovebox, or the TR-606 from a midi clock (coming from the MPC 1000 for instance) there is this machine
NO gate NO CV just dinsync (analogue) clock to midi and back (tight)
http://innerclocksystems.com/blog/?p=71
I use this, it's great.

another option is an Analogue Solutions Europa sequencer
http://www.analoguehaven.com/analoguesolutions/europa/

[blinky909]

you could get a Korg KMS-30 to get the DIN/MIDI in sync - either one can be the master. then you can have a ton of flexibility that way.

i was thinking MSQ-700 for the MIDI to DIN plus a nice 8 track sequencer. it works like a tape recorder, it's so much fun. you can bounce tracks, do overdubs, and set it to repeat. you can not save the sequences on power down, but you can save them to your pc via the tape save.

manual is here
ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/productsupport/MSQ-700/

[mildheadwound]

If it's just for clocking and not cv so much, you could try feeding a mono line level signal, like say from one of the 606 voices, directly into the gate in of your analogue synth, and see if you can generate a signal that will act as clock. After that, it might just be the use of a mult. to split the clock signal to the other synths. Backed up by midi, of course.

[duggabax]

Originally Posted by blinky909

Roland MSQ-700 - cheap and very easy to operate. i was actually thinking of getting one again to build up simple grooves. very musical timing and quantizing. you still need a MIDI to CV box, but if you just want to get 8 tracks going in a groovy jam, the MSQ-700 is worth it esp. since they run $100-150. safe as houses.

seconded. I use mine for tape sync to midi sync translation. they're just handy if you're using obsolete gear

it's also compatible with the juno 60 and a slightly more advanced sequencer than the jsq (8 tracks, chaining...more than two sequences can be saved) but good luck finding that dcb cable for a reasonable price. this is alexp's main sequencer I think.

[boon]

get a patch bay.

also, chances are you won't be using every piece of gear all at once all the time.

i have midi coming out of my computer via midi interfce.. linked to kenton pro2000mkII.. i feed that into the rack synths.. drum machines, analog synths etc. then i just patch audio into the mixer via patch bay.

if i want to sequence something via hardware sequencer i just run a midi cable.. done. i do this some times but not all the time.. i don't need the same master clock all the time because i don't do the same things all the time. one day might use a drum machine as a drum module. one day the drum machine might be the master clock/main midi sequencer (you can do this w/the RY30) and just use the computer as a tape machine... yada yada yada..

so, yeah.. be flexible.. get a patch bay.. midi interface.. figure out what works best for you. have fun with different configurations.

[Rooftree]

Thanks for all the advice so far. I might not have made something clear in my original post. Ease of use is of utmost importance. I'm not interested in sequencing entire songs. I just want to slap together drum and bass lines without struggling through menus and configurations and complex setups. I'd play pads and leads live along with the drums and bass.

I have a very strong technical background and have no problem using computers all day every day. But when it comes to music and computers, I just freeze. So I want something with the bare minimum of complexity and menu diving.

With that said, I think the MPC1000 is too much for me. But some of the other suggestions look promising. Here's what I'm thinking might work. Feel free to set me straight if this doesn't make sense. I don't know anything about clocking, so a lot of the following is guesswork.

• Keep the RY30 and TR-606. Buy FR Mobius step sequencer and Engineers@work MIDI to sync converter. Route all MIDI through the UM-550 MIDI patch bay.
• Yahama RY30 to act as master clock and FR Mobius as slave. RY30 will be for live playing of drums on its pads or for playback of saved drum patterns. Mobius would be for bass lines and occasional leads to be fed into CS-30, Juno-60 w/Minerva, or P08.
• To use the TR-606 I'd set the Mobius as the master and its MIDI output would set the clock of the TR-606 through the Engineers@work box.

Is this realistic?

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by duggabax

it's also compatible with the juno 60 and a slightly more advanced sequencer than the jsq (8 tracks, chaining...more than two sequences can be saved) but good luck finding that dcb cable for a reasonable price.

alas, the MSQ-700 is either MIDI or DCB, not both :( i have the CHD MDCB-2 and that works very well so i would just use the MSQ-700 as an 8 track MIDI sequencer.

again, if you are looking to jam out, the MSQ-700 was designed for jammin.

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by Rooftree

• Keep the RY30 and TR-606. Buy FR Mobius step sequencer and Engineers@work MIDI to sync converter. Route all MIDI through the UM-550 MIDI patch bay.
• Yahama RY30 to act as master clock and FR Mobius as slave. RY30 will be for live playing of drums on its pads or for playback of saved drum patterns. Mobius would be for bass lines and occasional leads to be fed into CS-30, Juno-60 w/Minerva, or P08.
• To use the TR-606 I'd set the Mobius as the master and its MIDI output would set the clock of the TR-606 through the Engineers@work box.

Is this realistic?

- Mobius has MIDI to DIN built in.
- Mobius is not the fastest thing on the planet to write sequences on. it's rather cumbersome since it has just an up and down buttons and you have to scroll to get to the note value for that step.
- no need to use the TR-606 as the master since the Mobius spits out DIN sync

a MIDI to CV box and an MSQ-700 costs less than the Mobious (out of production and in demand) and in my opinion would be far more flexible for jammin. the Mobius is single channel, but pattern based. the MSQ-700 has 8 tracks but can have note data from all 16 MIDI channels in EACH track. tracks are mutable and the entire sequence is loopable, so, with a keen sense of timing, you can mute and unmute tracks and have 8 patterns of 8, 16, 32, 64 bars that repeats.

the MSQ-700 will spit out DIN to sync the TR-606. editing patterns in step time is verbose, but not impossible. again, it's a great jammin machine.

[Morechips]

You say you know nothing about 'clocking', your Juno has a clock input, so try clocking its arp from the clock out on the 606.

The above is one example of clocking, in that case clock is a 5 volt pulse (maybe 8 volt? I am not sure as I don't have a 606), then there is Din sync 24 (or Korg din sync 48) which is 24 pulses per quarter note with a 5 volt start and stop signal, then there is midi clock which again is 24 ppqn. I am gonna stop there as they are the 'clocks' I understand best.

You could also clock your Juno's arp with a square wave output from a modular synth and probably with the gate out from a cv/gate unit.

Also I have to agree with blinky that the Mobius probably isn't your best option, its pricey and a bit limited. The MSQ-700 looks great (to my eyes) and specs seem great as well! I just wish they didn't fetch as much in the UK at the moment!

[Dubtek71]

If you are feeling spendy you go consider a Cirklon. 5 midi ins/outs, midi over USB x 6, DINSync Port, Optional CV breakout box. It does pretty much what you are asking for. Great feature set:tons of assignable cc's plus aux events. I am VERY happy with my machine. It's all I could want in a sequencer and more. Something to look into at the least.

[blinky909]

Originally Posted by Dubtek71

If you are feeling spendy you go consider a Cirklon. 5 midi ins/outs, midi over USB x 6, DINSync Port, Optional CV breakout box. It does pretty much what you are asking for. Great feature set:tons of assignable cc's plus aux events. I am VERY happy with my machine. It's all I could want in a sequencer and more. Something to look into at the least.

$1900.00 US isn't spendy, $500 is spendy.

$1900.00 will get me started on my modular dreams though. can i borrow a nickel?