There is some really interesting music in this thread. I have decided to start digging deeper in Juan Atkins work. From some of the tracks I heard in this thread I can see where an artist like Arthur Deep draws inspiration from.
Interesting to hear the early versions of this song. I didn't realize it was an older song. There is a newer version that I listen to a lot on YouTube. This is the one I have been listening to. Little different. I totally dig this one.
That is true with Cosmic.. he had a classical music background on concert pianist level but felt deeply in love with chicago house.. And his earlier works was maybe more chicago than anything else I ever heard from a german guy.. But than he introduced his classical composing skills and went more melodic.. leaving the 303 behind as you say ..I also think he really invented trance that way...
Sometimes i wish he would have not, mutated to some really slimy elevator music somehow...
Anyway.. you overrate the german part on the euro techno side a bit, but thanks ;-)
There was very good and influential stuff form britain, holland and belgium too... a lot actually and slightly earlier than in germany..
Was really like a wave that rolled towards the east and an international ping pong game. A bit like a slight competition between the european countries for the hottest tracks and a good portion of US imports/acts played in the club nights too. So you had a range from chicago house (detroit stuff and acts of cause too) to harder euro techno and trancy tracks on one floor during the night. And often even a cuddly chillout floor.
Was a quite exciting mixture to handle it all as one house music.
He did a great remix of the Blade Runner theme back in the mid 90's. Probably the best version after the original.
YMO must be in there as contributors to the electronic scene.
Though I don't even think Kraftwerk in their wildest dreams would claim to be techno pioneers, but in the broad sense they WERE one of the pioneers of 'electronic music' [major caveat as there were others before them] BUT Juan is still the daddy/father of techno - period. To give that title to Kraftwerk then you may as well spread the love to
-John Chowning for his work on FM research which led to the DX7
-Beethoven for his tonal masterpieces / Bach for master of polyphony
-Disco music pioneers
etc
I would say Kraftwerk influential but definitely no way ever pioneers of Techno.
couldnt put it better myself, there really is no discussion here, its like like saying is james dyson responsible for the dyson vacuum cleaner, sure scientist have worked on turbines before but,,,,, you get the point
My- take- and its just my take- was that people did not become obsessed with labeling something as a certain "genera" - Chicago House, Detroit Techno, etc- until AFTER the music was produced and then it seemed to me to be more of a part of commodification of the process or scene than anything real.
It is hard to explain to younger folks who have always had the internet that it-and youtube- did not exist when most of these "genres" were first labeled. Nor did such things exist when the music that inspired the later labels was first created. People worked in what would be considered now almost a vacuum. There is an interview with Atkins in the book Electro Shock ( from the 90s it was a Keyboard magazine interview compilation I think) where he stated that the origins of what he did was the result of listening to Kraftwerk over and over again trying to figure out how the rhythms were played so precisely - he stated "all I had was an MS-10 -I did not know they were using sequencers". Certainly in 1975-79 the genre "Electro" would not be a widely used term.
We were all like that back in the day. The primary reason he was even listening to Kraftwerk was that they had what amounted to a novelty top 10 hit in America circa 1974-75-they were even on "Midnight Special". At the time, no one with much visibility had an all-synth band so it was weird as hell to most folks- After that , they had their fans but were not "popular" -the follow up to their hit was "Radioactivity" and did not do great in the states. But stuff they did earlier than "Autobahn", such as "Rucksack" (1973?)was much more dance oriented than Radioactivity,
The big breakthrough creatively was the lp Trans Europe Express, which made a splash with the arty prog crowd because of the Bowie namecheck and the fact that it came out in the US around the same time as Low, which was the beginning of Bowie's temporary stay as an arty progressive synth type , after having huge hits with Fame et al.
When we all first heard Trans Europe Express, none of us said "Oh, what genre is this" we just reacted to it. That's how most things get started. When Metal on Metal started to get played in clubs, I am sure no one thought about its origins.
Antecedents include other so-called "Krautrock" Cluster's "Zuckerzeit" ( 1971) has a track on it that sounds like someone is playing a 303 ( not invented yet) and the successor to Cluster, Harmonia has several tracks on its debut lp (1973) that sound pretty Detroit technoish to us now. And Brian Eno worked with Cluster and then went to Berlin to work with Bowie. And Klaus Schulze, trailblazing synth artist , is often called the "Godfather" of techno but never referred to his long, prog-influenced sequencer-based explorations of the 70s as such. There's a german tv special of him giving a concert in a factory @ 1980 where there is a long sequenced portion that sounds very technoish now. There is also in that same special, visual effects that would not be out of place at a rave, and elements of symphonic music and prog rock.
I am sure that Atkins and others were following their muse , as was Schulze. Labels after the fact are less interesting.
Noitice as well that proper Techno has melody. ,mainly on the dark moody strings and the basslines
WHY!! DId we wet those Loop Techno noisemakers starting from around 99/00 (and their still doing it) just when proper techno was getting extremely developed and interesting take over. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon supported by the pointy nosed music journalists as is it were the real deal. At the same time we had Loop techno were getting that boring crap prog throwm down our throats (much credit to John Digweed for that), emptying clubs across the lands. DJ's I had never heard of started cropping up everywhere playing loop techno with minuscule and pretty awful discographies. Yet Jetting around the world disillusion -ing people every time they played but plenty of clubs still to empty at the time. Im glad to say their day is over. Im just hoping the real techno comes back in forc and be further developed. There are those out there doing it but being completely ignored. Why?. What drew me to techno was so many things but it was the melody, the darkness, you could dance to it, so could the women. It made you think of the possibilities while you danced as you heard the subtleties in parts. Nothing has ever drawn me to Loop Techno, Minimal, Prog (that really boring prog which isnt far from minimal) or most experimental music.
Juan is a favourite of mine as is Carl Craig. Lots of talk on this forum about DJ XXXXX and his bog standard 909 kik drum sound - but none of these guys who made far better music (imo) usually get a mention
But hamg on Hmmmmm
ABleton ;lve 2001/2 daws/software, cheap PCs becoming ,readiiy available, software that cpuld put drums in time for you. Loop, Minimal explodes and nearly kills the entire scene. If it werent for the French I dont think we would have a dance scene today/Their Electro house basically saved it and broughy people back in to the clubs and helped dance records sell again. ANd thanks must go to Steve Jobs who just madde ITunes without any fuss. AGain if it werent for him the whole industry could have seriously been compimised because before him the only music people were getting was from illegal download sites.
ANd isnt an absolute slap in the face Geffner purchased Napster for $500 million dollars and THEN made the Napster owner chief of music or something. It certainly pays to be a thief/leech of other peoples work. But Itunes was the beginning of the end of Napster. Thans Steve!
Noitice as well that proper Techno has melody. ,mainly on the dark moody strings and the basslines
WHY!! DId we wet those Loop Techno noisemakers starting from around 99/00 (and their still doing it) just when proper techno was getting extremely developed and interesting take over. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon supported by the pointy nosed music journalists as is it were the real deal. At the same time we had Loop techno were getting that boring crap prog throwm down our throats (much credit to John Digweed for that), emptying clubs across the lands. DJ's I had never heard of started cropping up everywhere playing loop techno with minuscule and pretty awful discographies. Yet Jetting around the world disillusion -ing people every time they played but plenty of clubs still to empty at the time. Im glad to say their day is over. Im just hoping the real techno comes back in forc and be further developed. There are those out there doing it but being completely ignored. Why?. What drew me to techno was so many things but it was the melody, the darkness, you could dance to it, so could the women. It made you think of the possibilities while you danced as you heard the subtleties in parts. Nothing has ever drawn me to Loop Techno, Minimal, Prog (that really boring prog which isnt far from minimal) or most experimental music.
Juan is a favourite of mine as is Carl Craig. Lots of talk on this forum about DJ XXXXX and his bog standard 909 kik drum sound - but none of these guys who made far better music (imo) usually get a mention
But hamg on Hmmmmm
ABleton ;lve 2001/2 daws/software, cheap PCs becoming ,readiiy available, software that cpuld put drums in time for you. Loop, Minimal explodes and nearly kills the entire scene. If it werent for the French I dont think we would have a dance scene today/Their Electro house basically saved it and broughy people back in to the clubs and helped dance records sell again. ANd thanks must go to Steve Jobs who just madde ITunes without any fuss. AGain if it werent for him the whole industry could have seriously been compimised because before him the only music people were getting was from illegal download sites.
ANd isnt an absolute slap in the face Geffner purchased Napster for $500 million dollars and THEN made the Napster owner chief of music or something. It certainly pays to be a thief/leech of other peoples work. But Itunes was the beginning of the end of Napster. Thans Steve!
All loop techno isnt bad and I would say to only look to purpose maker classics from the mid to late 90's to see that it has its place in proper techno history.
Your correct it wasnt all bad. But the good stuff (ie the good techno) was cut short due to the explosion of a style of music anyone could do by putting together multiple loops in daws like ableton live
Hey.even Im guilty of making some loop techno. I hate those tracks now
Jeff Mills purpose maker stuff is what I consider loop techno. But it had soul.
Giorgio Moroder had more of a techno thing going on than Kraftwerk because he was doing the spacey stuff with the disco dance beat. Regardless, these and other artists were influences on the stuff that came from Detroit. Music evolves. Nobody invents, or fathers anything. Juan Atkins is called the godfather of techno, which is different than calling him the father. Juan simply called his stuff Techno music and that is how it got the name.
meh.. kind of a stupid and regressive statement. Of course you should know of their discography's .. but study them for years?
I dunno.. I like some Model 500 and the Infiniti stuff was great. But just can't enjoy a single track by Cybotron. After years go by I go back to it and I've changed from indifference to actually hating it..
Jazz and Detroit Techno .. two of the most over-rated genres IMO.
Orlando Voorn - sadly is under-rated.
Talk about "kind of stupid and regressive." Maybe jazz is overrated to you, but that is an otherwise meaningless statement considering the impact jazz has clearly had on popular music. Further, jazz is far from a homogenous category. There are so many eras and genres within jazz - I mean, some players are genres unto themselves - that that's almost like saying music is overrated. It's just... ignorant. Any musician, song-writer, or producer of any lasting influence has a background firmly rooted in blues or jazz. That's just a fact borne out in album credits. If you can't get appreciate it or aren't willing to take the time to research deeply enough to find jazz artists who speak to you, you are holding yourself back. I'll be the first to admit that there are jazz artists who I don't understand, or whose music is just plain irritating. There is also an army of modern "jazz" musicians who are resting squarely on the accomplishments of previous artists. There are also listeners who ally themselves with jazz because it's a purportedly sophisticated genre, like classical. But from an objective standpoint, jazz is hugely influential, second perhaps only to classical music in its influence on future genres.
The same type of argument follows for Detroit techno. If you can't get inside of it, fine, your problem. But there's no doubt that techno and house music were appropriated by mainstream music labels because these guys sitting in their warehouses with late-model drum machines and hardware were clearly onto something. Like it or not, it's hugely influential.
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