Huge piece of software not invented yet? or am I just not aware of it...

[nms]

Is there a program that can search through my sample library analyzing the waveforms and find the closest matches to a sample I have on hand?

This would be INSANELY useful for finding the original sample in your library if you've hacked out a kick for eg from a track.. or finding as many samples that are close to that sound as possible.

Where's Andy Cytomic? Surely he knows how possible this is to develop!

[Yoozer]

It's invented (and called Shazam); it's just used for regular music fingerprinting. What you need for shorter samples is simply something that's more accurate.

So what you essentially want is a "copyrighted drum replacer"?

[timlloyd]

Might be possible to hack something together using Sox to generate spectograms and some kind of iterative comparison of the results.

Sounds probably doable but a pita, and very inefficient

[nms]

I want something that can dig through my 60k or so sample library and find the best variations of a particular sound. That way I can find the clean original if I have it or one that's better/better suited for the particular track. This would be huge! You'd be able to wrangle all your best options for a particular sound.

[3phase]

Originally Posted by nms

I want something that can dig through my 60k or so sample library and find the best variations of a particular sound. That way I can find the clean original if I have it or one that's better/better suited for the particular track. This would be huge! You'd be able to wrangle all your best options for a particular sound.

what do you mean with a clean original? the original sample that fits to recordings you got from the wild wild web?

[studiomood]

sounds like a pretty cool idea..

lets think of cool names for it..

[3phase]

Originally Posted by studiomood

sounds like a pretty cool idea..

lets think of cool names for it..

sample ripper ? beatwatch ? hazzelcrop?

[timbreman]

Mixed in Key can scan your library and label them with Key info but that's the closest I've seen.

[studiomood]

Originally Posted by 3phase

sample ripper ? beatwatch ? hazzelcrop?

hahaha hazzelcrop.

"sample daddy"

[nms]

Originally Posted by 3phase

what do you mean with a clean original? the original sample that fits to recordings you got from the wild wild web?

I mean one use would be say if you had a track that had the perfect kick for your style/track and you wanted the original unprocessed kick or closest match to it since it's the sound you're after, it would search your library (or its own index built from scanning your library initially) and find the best matches.

Much of dance music is being made with the vengeance sample sets most of us have or original drum machine samples that most experienced producers have as well.. this program would dig up the source sample if you have it in your library, or closest matches to it. And with your fav samples in your library it'd be able to dig through and find more like it. Sure there's software that allows you to tag your files with characteristics.. but as if I have time to go through and effectively catalog 50-60k samples. I have an amazing sample library but every time I have to dig up new percussion I dread wading through it all.

Haha.. yeah I think the development of said software would prob be the first order of business over figuring out what to call it! Sample Hound is what it would be pretty much tho

[nightscope]

Samplitude has the Comparasonics wave display system built in which allows for a single audio file to be searched for similar sounds. Open the file in the wave editor, select a bit of the file and then copy it to the clipboard. A search can then be performed for anything similar which will then find either a lot or a few matches according to the chosen sensitivity. Audio markers are then plonked down wherever appropriate for future perusal, a list of the markers is also generated. Only works on a single file.

Comparasonics has a program that will hunt around in many files for sound-a-likes either on an HD or the web. FindsoundsPalette. No idea how useful it is.

FindSounds Palette

ns

[timlloyd]

Originally Posted by nms

I mean one use would be say if you had a track that had the perfect kick for your style/track and you wanted the original unprocessed kick or closest match to it since it's the sound you're after, it would search your library (or its own index built from scanning your library initially) and find the best matches.

Do you have any idea just how difficult it is to design an algorithm that can "recognise" nuance as accurately as you could do it yourself in a split second?

If you want something that can "listen" selectively to a single component of a complex waveform, you're in Shazam and Melodyne territory ... then to take that further and have the algorithm "guess" which aspects of it you want to find a "match" for, while ignoring other aspects that you decide are irrelevant (either consciously or subconsciously) ... yikes ...

so complicated ... daaaamn

edit - Comparisonics looks pretty amazing

[3phase]

Originally Posted by nms

I mean one use would be say if you had a track that had the perfect kick for your style/track and you wanted the original unprocessed kick or closest match to it since it's the sound you're after

and where do you have this track from? when it would be one of yours you would know where the kick comes from..wouldnt you?

Much of dance music is being made with the vengeance sample sets most of us have or original drum machine samples that most experienced producers have as well..

thats a total false assumption these sample set sellers brought up..

but of cause only copycats and newbs use theese samplesets..
Any good producer does own treatments to the drumsounds..even when they might use a samplesetof a 909/808 insetad of just using a real one, They processe it heavily with all kind of fx, some nice compressors and eq´s.. reverbs, stacking, distortion, harmonic and trasient shapers... that actually the production work..the sound design...

modern drummachines like the machine drum have many parameters to tweak the sound... i would say i ve heard more records featuring the machine drum than boring sample drums lately..

Producers that are on the hight of time do the drums with modular synths.. That the most modern way.. just to avoid to have the same sound as anybody else...And more alive modulation of cause..
all the preset stuff is more and more a beginners and comercial clones only thing..

So.. given that you try to find sound of proper modern productions.. that have well treated and own synthezised drumsounds as basis..
A software never would be able to find you any source samples in your libary..


And last but not least.. the most shitty drum sample can be a huge thing when beeing send thru a big lexicon ... the expensive rooms you find on bigger productions really do wonders to otherwise boring drums. especially kicks are something only expensive reverbs can handle.and without them you wouldnt have the same sound anyway, even when you would find the source sample.

So.. your software dont exsistst because it only adresses the needs of copycats in the first place.. so there is no market for it in the professional producer scene.. and i hope it stays this way...

And it would be an extremely difficult up to impossible task to find the right samples anyway just by the wave form..

Try your self to eq a kick and bounce to another track... the waveform can become soemthing completly different allready, now try an often used mastering fx like waves maxx bass on the kick..again..the waveform totaly different.. even when the sound charakter is the same..just fatter...

would be rather accidently when your software finds a matching sample..

[nms]

Originally Posted by timlloyd

Do you have any idea just how difficult it is to design an algorithm that can "recognise" nuance as accurately as you could do it yourself in a split second?

haha.. there is nothing quick about the human ability to search 50,000 files for sonically similar matches!


@nightscope - Sounds promising. Dear god I hope one of those does this! Will investigate.

[3phase]

Originally Posted by nms

haha.. there is nothing quick about the human ability to search 50,000 files for sonically similar matches!


@nightscope - Sounds promising. Dear god I hope one of those does this! Will investigate.

considering that time is money you might be better of with a propper drum machine with synth engines like the upcoming tempest for example...
ts pricy.. but when you you just spend one second per sample to browse your lib you allready need 14 hours.. lets say we pay you 5.- the hour for this ****** work you can afford the most expensive real drummachine after having selected 40-50 samples.. equals 3 drumsets...

i think you have too much time ;-)

[3phase]

or too many samples

[nms]

Originally Posted by 3phase

considering that time is money you might be better of with a propper drum machine with synth engines like the upcoming tempest for example...
ts pricy.. but when you you just spend one second per sample to browse your lib you allready need 14 hours.. lets say we pay you 5.- the hour for this ****** work you can afford the most expensive real drummachine after having selected 40-50 samples.. equals 3 drumsets...
i think you have too much time ;-)

I don't have the time, that's exactly why I want software assistance. At this point getting setup to synthesize all my own percussion is not what I'm after. I don't believe in one box and my own percussion programming ability being the silver bullet solution at all.

[asynchro_nous]

"Profiler" would be a good name for the program.

[gsilbers]

similar:

Home - Soundminer Storefront


but with some caveats, youll have to metadata all of your samples 1st with info like style of kick drum and other info that might describe different kick drums.

[nms]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

youll have to metadata all of your samples 1st with info like style of kick drum and other info that might describe different kick drums.

exactly. That's useless to me. It's faster to just skim through folders and cherry pick than sit there fcking around trying to descriptively tag thousands of samples. I don't know who would have time for that! I tried the demo version of findsounds palette but it's useless at it. I heard from the developer of Audiofinder and he says he's working on it but finding it difficult.

[nms]

Originally Posted by 3phase

and where do you have this track from? when it would be one of yours you would know where the kick comes from..wouldnt you?

I'd think that would be obvious. Clearly I meant a track from somewhere else. This as opposed to sampling.

thats a total false assumption these sample set sellers brought up.. but of cause only copycats and newbs use theese samplesets..
Any good producer does own treatments to the drumsounds..even when they might use a samplesetof a 909/808 insetad of just using a real one, They processe it heavily with all kind of fx, some nice compressors and eq´s.. reverbs, stacking, distortion, harmonic and trasient shapers... that actually the production work..the sound design...

ok no offense, but you seem completely detached from the reality of dance music production by the majority of the industry! Only copycats and newbs use percussion samples rather than synthesize their own percussion? Really?

modern drummachines like the machine drum have many parameters to tweak the sound... i would say i ve heard more records featuring the machine drum than boring sample drums lately..

You are aware that all the sample sets (of synthesized drums) were in fact at one time synthesized and processed right?

Producers that are on the hight of time do the drums with modular synths.. That the most modern way..

Err... what percentage roughly of producers would you say are using modular systems to synthesize their own percussion?

And last but not least.. the most shitty drum sample can be a huge thing when beeing send thru a big lexicon ... the expensive rooms you find on bigger productions really do wonders to otherwise boring drums. especially kicks are something only expensive reverbs can handle.

So.. your software dont exsistst because it only adresses the needs of copycats in the first place.. so there is no market for it in the professional producer scene.. and i hope it stays this way...

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by 3phase

So.. your software dont exsistst because it only adresses the needs of copycats in the first place.. so there is no market for it in the professional producer scene.. and i hope it stays this way...

May I remind you of the fact that ReFX NEXUS exists, and that Loopmasters is doing pretty well too?

Of course there is a market. It just means you have to consider that even professional producers take shortcuts. And if the result is good, why not?

[nms]

You're only legit if you mine your own metals which you then use to build your own synths and synthesize every part of your tracks from scratch.