Preamp questions

[Psynthman]

I posted in the newb questions forum, but it seems to get very, very little traffic so I figured I'd post here as well. Questions are in the topic linked below. I searched gearslutz and google a bit, but most of the information was indirect or explained it in terms I don't understand at my newbie level, so if any of you more experienced slutz wanna help me out

Newb preamp questions

[atma]

1. you don't need a dedicated preamp for the synth. you need an audio interface that has line inputs. a preamp just boosts the volume level of a signal—condenser mics in particular need a preamp. most synths have a loud enough signal that they don't really need to be boosted, especially if you record at 24 bit it isn't necessary to have a loud-as-possible signal when recording into a daw.

2. a dac is a digital to analog converter. this converts the digital signal coming out of your daw into an analog signal that you can hear through your speakers. any audio interface has one, a stand-alone preamp wont.

3. your synth will be able to power your headphones. if you're recording into a daw, you'l need a headphone output on your audio interface/soundcard to hear what's coming out of the computer once it's recorded.

4. depends on the audio interface. at the very least you'd just want to get a pair of TRS cables to connect your synth to the audio interface's line inputs.


for your budget, i would personally get the rme babyface interface. this is basically a soundcard/audio interface that will allow you to use a DAW on a computer, and has everything you'll need—audio inputs/outputs, midi, headphone output, mic preamps, etc.

[NWSooner]

Originally Posted by atma

1. you don't need a dedicated preamp for the synth. you need an audio interface that has line inputs. a preamp just boosts the volume level of a signal—condenser mics in particular need a preamp. most synths have a loud enough signal that they don't really need to be boosted, especially if you record at 24 bit it isn't necessary to have a loud-as-possible signal when recording into a daw.

2. a dac is a digital to analog converter. this converts the digital signal coming out of your daw into an analog signal that you can hear through your speakers. any audio interface has one, a stand-alone preamp wont.

3. your synth will be able to power your headphones. if you're recording into a daw, you'l need a headphone output on your audio interface/soundcard to hear what's coming out of the computer once it's recorded.

4. depends on the audio interface. at the very least you'd just want to get a pair of TRS cables to connect your synth to the audio interface's line inputs.


for your budget, i would personally get the rme babyface interface. this is basically a soundcard/audio interface that will allow you to use a DAW on a computer, and has everything you'll need—audio inputs/outputs, midi, headphone output, mic preamps, etc.

atma summed it up nicely, and I agree with the RME recommendation. You'll need two TRS-to-TRS cables (1/4" to 1/4"). Don't spend a ton of money on depleted uranium audiophile cables, just get cables that are solid and well made. Two of these to connect your Spectralis to the interface would do just fine:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BP5

Even Hosa would be ok if you really have to pinch pennies, though I don't like the build quality on those. But they sound fine.

[Psynthman]

Thanks so much guys, that was very helpful and easy to understand. So, let me see if I have this correct, I can use the Spectralis to power my headphones, and I will be able to hear stuff in my DAW so long as I have an interface with a line for it? So all I would need is the RME Babyface as an interface, and I'll be able to use that to hear stuff in my DAW with my headphones, which will be powered by the Spectralis? Also, do used RME Babyfaces appear often? I couldn't find any used ones online, though I suppose I could buy it new, be kinda a stretch for my wallet right now though.

[NWSooner]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

Thanks so much guys, that was very helpful and easy to understand. So, let me see if I have this correct, I can use the Spectralis to power my headphones, and I will be able to hear stuff in my DAW so long as I have an interface with a line for it? So all I would need is the RME Babyface as an interface, and I'll be able to use that to hear stuff in my DAW with my headphones, which will be powered by the Spectralis? Also, do used RME Babyfaces appear often? I couldn't find any used ones online, though I suppose I could buy it new, be kinda a stretch for my wallet right now though.

The Spectralis won't power your headphones, it's the RME interface that will power the headphones. You connect the synth to the RME, and your headphones to the RME, and then you hear the synth through that. You will also hear the sound from your DAW through the RME (you don't need audio cables for that; your DAW will talk to the Babyface via the USB cable).

I don't know if they come up used very often, sorry. Looks like they're $750 new. If you have a Mac and Firewire you could get the Apogee Duet 2 new for about $500 and it's a really nice interface too. If you're on Windows the Duet is not available for you, so the RME would be the way to go in that case. If it's too much there are cheaper interfaces from Steinberg, M Audio, Focusrite, Lexicon, etc. that can do the job. You might ask on Low End for some recommendations for the best cheap interfaces.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/

[Psynthman]

Thanks, I'll check out some other interfaces. In regards to the Babyface, this thread here : RME User Forum / Babyface headphone output level question

Some guy claims it's too weak to power his Seinheiser 650's. So would it also be too weak for my AKG K702? If I'm going to spend 750, I wanna make sure it powers my headphones properly.

[NWSooner]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

Some guy claims it's too weak to power his Seinheiser 650's. So would it also be too weak for my AKG K702? If I'm going to spend 750, I wanna make sure it powers my headphones properly.

Hopefully somebody with a Babyface will chime in here. I haven't actually used one, just heard good things about them. If nobody responds you might try posting on that RME site you linked to and see if someone there has the same headphones as you.

I've had 4 different interfaces (Digidesign 003, Steinberg MR816, Metric Halo ULN-8 and Metric Halo LIO-8) and I've got 5 sets of headphones including the Sennheiser 650's and none of those interfaces had any problems powering any of the headphones. Most interfaces should be able to get the volume loud enough for permanent hearing damage, though I can't speak to the Babyface specifically.

[Psynthman]

I've heard the Steinberg MR816 around here a lot, and people say it's good quality. I however can't find any information on how it reacts with the AKG K702. I may just have to post on the respective forums, but if anyone here has used the AKG K702 with either the RME Babyface or the Steinberg MR816 I'd love to hear about it.

[NWSooner]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

I've heard the Steinberg MR816 around here a lot, and people say it's good quality. I however can't find any information on how it reacts with the AKG K702. I may just have to post on the respective forums, but if anyone here has used the AKG K702 with either the RME Babyface or the Steinberg MR816 I'd love to hear about it.

The MR816 might be more interface than you need. 8 inputs/8 outputs. It's $700 new (for the X version) so it's in the ballpark of your price range, but with your existing hardware you only need a 2 in/2 out interface, or 4x4. 8x8 seems like overkill to me.

That being said I can verify that the headphone output on the MR816 works fine with Sennheiser 650s, Ultrasone Pro 2500s, Sony MDR-7509HDs, Sony MDR-7506s, and Audio Technica ATH M-50's, but I don't have any AKGs.

Steinberg makes smaller interfaces too. (See CI1, CI2, and CI2+.) But if you're not using Cubase (which the Steinberg stuff is meant to interface especially well with) there are lots of 2x2 interfaces to choose from.

[Psynthman]

Originally Posted by NWSooner

The MR816 might be more interface than you need. 8 inputs/8 outputs. It's $700 new (for the X version) so it's in the ballpark of your price range, but with your existing hardware you only need a 2 in/2 out interface, or 4x4. 8x8 seems like overkill to me.

That being said I can verify that the headphone output on the MR816 works fine with Sennheiser 650s, Ultrasone Pro 2500s, Sony MDR-7509HDs, Sony MDR-7506s, and Audio Technica ATH M-50's, but I don't have any AKGs.

Steinberg makes smaller interfaces too. (See CI1, CI2, and CI2+.) But if you're not using Cubase (which the Steinberg stuff is meant to interface especially well with) there are lots of 2x2 interfaces to choose from.

The MR816 is 50 bucks cheaper than the Babyface, however. I'll probably ask in low end about 2x2 interfaces. I just wanna make sure it can power my headphones. Thanks for your replies, you've been very helpful. If anyone reading over this can suggest some 2x2 interfaces that can power AKG K702's, feel free to give your 2cents!

[atma]

the sennheiser 650s have a pretty high impedance; it's something like 300 ohms i think. in layman's terms the higher the impedance, the more power you need in the headphone preamp to power them to adequate volume levels. however the 702's have a much lower impedance, so i really wouldn't worry about it. it's fairly rare for any pair of headphones to have a high enough impedance rating to actually need a more powerful output than what's on any standard audio interface. my shitty presonus firebox has such an insanely loud headphone output, i can barely turn it up a few notches without it getting to dangerous levels with any of my headphones.

[awhitman audio]

I would get a focusrite saffire 24. As long as you have a FireWire port you will be set. Plug your synth in and you are ready to go. Also you don't need to be in reaper/Cubase to hear your synth.
It has nice ad/da converters and has a few more ins and outs just because you will need them soon if yOu are anything like the rest of us! Also it's 200 dollars and you can pick up a synth with the extra cash!

[Psynthman]

Originally Posted by awhitman audio

I would get a focusrite saffire 24. As long as you have a FireWire port you will be set. Plug your synth in and you are ready to go. Also you don't need to be in reaper/Cubase to hear your synth.
It has nice ad/da converters and has a few more ins and outs just because you will need them soon if yOu are anything like the rest of us! Also it's 200 dollars and you can pick up a synth with the extra cash!

Hahaha I would totally love to have more synths, but I'm a poor college student and can't afford to buy another one for a while, probably not for a year or two, but at least if I get this I'll have some for the future! I do have firewire, so I might just get that one, thanks a lot for the recommendation, it seems like a nice solid piece of kit.

[Odey]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

Hahaha I would totally love to have more synths, but I'm a poor college student and can't afford to buy another one for a while, probably not for a year or two, but at least if I get this I'll have some for the future! I do have firewire, so I might just get that one, thanks a lot for the recommendation, it seems like a nice solid piece of kit.

Saffire is a very bad quality bit of kit in my opinion. Fireface kit is usually much better quality in both the AD DA and preamp department.

[Whalez]

Hey guys I don't wanna take over the thread but I got a question about some of the stuff you guys are talking about.

Right now my headphones suck but if I ever buy a pair of good ones how do I look up how strong my interface's headphone jack is to know if it will power them ok?

I have a M-Audio Fast Track Pro.

I know a *little* bit about ohms but only in terms of like car stereo speakers and amps they are all like 2/4/8 none of them are like 300 ohms, and to be honest while I do *know* a little bit I don't really *understand* it, if that makes sense.


Gota edit this, nevermind on the question I did some digging and found out

[PeteJames]

I'd go for an echo audiofire based on what I've read. Apparently it's up there with apogee and RME (same converters I think) at a nicer price - I'm getting one.

[Psynthman]

Originally Posted by Odey

Saffire is a very bad quality bit of kit in my opinion. Fireface kit is usually much better quality in both the AD DA and preamp department.

It's also in a different price range, of course something that costs 250 won't sound as good as something that costs 750. Just like I'm sure stuff for 1,500 sounds much better than the stuff for 750. The reviews on it seem mostly positive from what I've read, but if there's something better for a similar price please let me know!

Originally Posted by PeteJames

I'd go for an echo audiofire based on what I've read. Apparently it's up there with apogee and RME (same converters I think) at a nicer price - I'm getting one.

Thanks, I'll look into those right now!

[atma]

yeah, if you're on a budget i'd go with an echo as well.

[Psynthman]

So would an Echo Audiofire4 be an advisable buy? And since it has 6 in 6 out, I can hook more synths up to it if I purchase more in the future, right?

This is it, here : Echo Digital Audio Corporation

It's about 250 bucks, so it's nicely in my budget.

[Psynthman]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

So would an Echo Audiofire4 be an advisable buy? And since it has 6 in 6 out, I can hook more synths up to it if I purchase more in the future, right?

This is it, here : Echo Digital Audio Corporation

It's about 250 bucks, so it's nicely in my budget.

Anyone? Last thing I need to know before I buy it, how many synths would I be able to hookup to this interface in the future?

[atma]

no, it's a 2 in/4 out. 2 inputs=one stereo source, so one stereo synth or two monophonic synths total.

[Psynthman]

Originally Posted by atma

no, it's a 2 in/4 out. 2 inputs=one stereo source, so one stereo synth or two monophonic synths total.

No idea where I got the 6x6 from, must have been looking at something else in another tab. Thanks

[NWSooner]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

No idea where I got the 6x6 from, must have been looking at something else in another tab. Thanks

Looks to me from that link you posted that it has 4 analog ins (2 of which have preamps), 4 analog outs, and 2 S/PDIF ins and 2 S/PDIF outs. So it's 6x6, but two of the IOs are digital via S/PDIF. So you could connect two stereo synths or four mono synths simultaneously and still connect a digital device (synth, effects processor, etc.) via S/PDIF for stereo in/out.

[Psynthman]

Originally Posted by NWSooner

Looks to me from that link you posted that it has 4 analog ins (2 of which have preamps), 4 analog outs, and 2 S/PDIF ins and 2 S/PDIF outs. So it's 6x6, but two of the IOs are digital via S/PDIF. So you could connect two stereo synths or four mono synths simultaneously and still connect a digital device (synth, effects processor, etc.) via S/PDIF for stereo in/out.

I'm confused now that I've got two different answers

If this is the correct answer, I'd be perfectly fine with this one. I may get more hardware in the future, but probably not for a while.

[atma]

sorry, yeah he's right—it has a pair of combination inputs on the front (mic/instrument) and then a pair of standard TRS inputs on the back. so 4 analog inputs=2 stereo synths or 4 mono synths total.