What am I doing wrong? (Max MSP 5)

[Heathfinnie]

I am using a trial of Max MSP 5 and am trying to use Lloopp and all that happens is that it's SUPER small on the screen. Forgive me as I'm not used to this kind of software instrument and want to use it within Logic but am at a loss (and feeling quite stupid about it)

Using Mac OSX 10.7

[erlone]

command + (+), or something like that
=
zoom in

[boon]

max/msp is something that takes a long time to master. so, if you are into it.. don't get discouraged. stick with it. read the max help info and visit the forum etc.

i don't use it.. i've messed with it.. wasn't for me.. but amazing things can be accomplished with it.

[Heathfinnie]

Thanks, I'm still at a loss on even getting it running. I can't find it in logic (I know it needs to be through re-wire, but I'm not even seeing it).

I was inspired by Fennesz's use of Lloopp but I'm just feeling really lost with it.

[boon]

Originally Posted by Heathfinnie

Thanks, I'm still at a loss on even getting it running. I can't find it in logic (I know it needs to be through re-wire, but I'm not even seeing it).

I was inspired by Fennesz's use of Lloopp but I'm just feeling really lost with it.

it won't come up like a plug in. you have to set up rewire routing in logic. also some things to do in audio midi set up w/the IAC bus.

google search for rewire logic set up or rewire max/msp set up.

[YeggmanX]

Originally Posted by Heathfinnie

I am using a trial of Max MSP 5 and am trying to use Lloopp and all that happens is that it's SUPER small on the screen. Forgive me as I'm not used to this kind of software instrument and want to use it within Logic but am at a loss (and feeling quite stupid about it)

Using Mac OSX 10.7

Hi there!

Don't feel stupid about it! Max is very deep software.

First some clarification:

Max/MSP is not a software instrument. It is a type of graphical programming language. Meaning, you are actually writing discrete computer programs when you use Max. It's a programming environment just like Java or C++ etc. You can compile programs made in Max and run them on other computers, provided they have the runtime installed to understand the language.

You can think of the Max environment like hooking together synthesizer modules. Barring some exceptions, you need to build the modules themselves from scratch. You can create any type of synthesis or sound effect in Max provided you know/understand the process by which that synthesis/effect is created.

For example, FM synthesis is achieved by modulating the pitch (ie applying vibrato) to an oscillator very, very quickly. In Max this is very simple to do. We just need a carrier oscillator and a modulation oscillator to alter the carrier's frequency.

Check out the "BasicFM" patch in the attached zip file. Cycle~ is a basic sine wave, *~ multiplies signals (which is how volume/amplitude control works), +~ adds signals (so the carrier frequency and modulator frequency can be combined). Click the "startwindow" button to start and "stop" to stop.

However, Max isn't really all that well suited to sound generation. The default sound-producing objects are not terrifically great sounding (except for cycle~, because, well... a sine wave is a sine wave is a sine wave.) This actually makes it very useful for true additive synthesis, as the number of sine waves is only limited by your CPU.

What max is really great for is controlling things. I'm working on a patch now to use my Akai MPD as an interface for my mopho. The data from the Akai will go into Max, and then my patch will process that data into a form appropriate for the Mopho's controls. Kind of like auto-map features but much more detailed. You are also not limited by the type of data being sent in; the Akai pads create note messages, but Max can use these messages as triggers for entirely different processes. A pad could start or stop the sequencer, or create a random jump in the filter frequency, or change the oscillator type, etc.

Max can take many types of data in and translate it into anything else. That's why you see so many videos of Wiimotes and Kinects being used as controllers - to Max, the Wiimote data and Kinect data is not different from the Akai data - they are all just streams of numbers for you to do with what you would. It's easy to apply algorithms to all sorts of data, to create semi-randomly generated sample cut-ups or note sequences (like autechre). Check out the AutoFM patch in the other zip.

Originally Posted by boon

it won't come up like a plug in. you have to set up rewire routing in logic. also some things to do in audio midi set up w/the IAC bus.

google search for rewire logic set up or rewire max/msp set up.

Like Boon says, you won't be able to use Max like a plug-in. This is firstly because Max is not a program itself, but a language whereby you create your own programs. Max 4 had the functionality to compile your patches as VST plug-ins, so patches you made ahead of time could be "bounced" into plug-in form and used or distributed. With Max 5, they removed that functionality and opted instead to focus on a partnership with Ableton via the proprietary "Max 4 Live" functions. So Max can still be used to make "plug-ins" of a sort, but only for Ableton.

Seeing as you are on Mac OS, another way to get audio from Max into Logic is via another Cycling '74 tool called Soundflower. Soundflower will show up like an audio driver in both Max and Logic's audio preferences (as well as any other audio program you use). You can route audio from any sound program to any other sound program in your computer via Soundflower. It has up to 16 discrete channels. I've used this live before to route an additive-synthesis "choir" from Max through Logic, in order to use Logic's reverbs.

[YeggmanX]

If you are just interested in looping a la Fennesz and you don't want to get into the nitty gritty of coding your own sound programs, you might want to check out Mobius.

Here are some other relevant links:

Lloop

Using Rewire in Max

Rewire Max into Logic


If you are interested in learning more about Max, the best way is the included tutorials - Help -> Max tutorials; MSP Tutorials; Jitter tutorials.
Max is data/number control. It's the most programmy part. MSP is sound processing, Jitter is video processing. There are lots and lots and lots of tutorials, and they can be quite dry, but they are a very good way of learning Max.

Cycling '74 is also starting to put more simple and intuitive instructional videos on their website, something that will increase when Max 6 is released in the fall. Their goals for Max 6 were to make Max cheaper to purchase and easier to get into for new users, esp. people new to programming.

Polyphonic Synthesizer

Synth Building

"Practical Max" Tutorial 1