Bass Mono: SH-2/09 vs. SE-1/1x, or maybe other?

[fooddude]

I miss having a dedicated mono for bass duties. Used to have a CS-10 for bass, which was great; but still preferred a more powerful 24db bass than the CS's wimpy 12db; now I just use my other polys or samplers for bass duties.

Thinking of getting a Mono once again for Bass. I've always lusted after a BA622 filtered rough rugged and raw Roland SH-09/2; I can't go wrong with that bass monster. Pro One is a little out of my budget (looking for sub $1k). My dream would be a Voyager or a D, but that is NOT happening, way outta my budget, lol.

But recently, I read about and discovered the SE-1/1x and it's similarity to the Minimoog. BUT, I do read a lot it's only?/biggest downfall/con is its' slow envelopes. Are they really that slow?

So how is the SE-1/1x anyways, in terms of oomph, phatness, BASS, roughness, ruggedness, vintageness, gutteralness..as compared to other well known older vintage bass monos like the SH-09/2, ProOne, etc., etc... or even compared to a real MiniMoog D or Voyager.

The SE-1/1x is in my price range and reach; even similar price as the SH2.....

[Yoozer]

Cue forum user living sounds posting you should get an SH2 and get it over with.

Anyway, here's some comparisons of a Voy OS/SE1x for you, hope they're anything useful. They're downloadable wave files if you don't want a compressed version.

[szf]

Two bass demos you may like:
-Beefy SE1x brown noise bass, crank up your sub!
-Really nice snappy bass preset from the microwave 1

Yes the envs are not snappy on the SE1x, for me it is not an issue, as I have other synths with really snappy envs. I adore my SE1x, and I have used it mostly for leads/fx up to now. The other synths you mention are all different types of bass machines, and all of them kick ass, so I'd recommend listening to more demos to see what you think will fit best with your style of music

[living sounds]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

Cue forum user living sounds posting you should get an SH2 and get it over with.

lol! Well, having owned both at the same time, I got rid of the SE-1 and kept the SH-2. The SE-1 has the advantage of 3 real oscillators, patch memory, much better behaviour to pitch bend (does the funky Minimoog style bend much better), more waveforms (triangle, which isn't that important for bass, but very nice for other things, especially lead sounds). The SE-1 also is a workhorse, it integrates seamlessly into every playback, better than most other synths I've used. Now for the disadvantages: Yes, the envelopes are slow (and I modded mine to get them faster, doesn't work that well). It cannot to crisp, always sounds a little cloudy compared to the clarity, directness and vibrant dynamics of most vintage synths. It's great for mid 90s (gangsta rap) style bass lines. It's no use for fast hitting techno bass. The synth ideally suited for this kind of sound is the SH-101.

The SH-2 doesn't have the class and sophistication of the Model D, but it can do clear, punchy, vibrant, vintage sound. The high end really sparkles, the envelopes are fast. With the filter tuned low it doesn't do the punchy low low end like some Moogs, but it's pretty nice still. It does all kind of basses well, especially the fast attack fast closing filter envelope type and also the dubsteb wobble. What I probably like the most about it though are sequences in the high and midrange, which is very clear and can do psy type stuff with lot's of PWM very well.

I've got a MW1 as well, it's cool for oldschool trance midrangy kinda off beat bass, but not suited for the low low end.

Can't say anything about the Pro One (wasn't floored by the demos I've heard so far though).

Another synth I've kept for some years now is the technosaurus microcon II, which is pretty limited in features, but the oscillators have a great tone to them, I occasionally use it for bass with success (but it really excells more in the 303ish midrange).

In the end, what most of us would really like best is the Model D (since it's great at everything), but these days it comes with a heavy price tag, and you'd have to deal with the tuning, too.

[Acid Hazard]

101?
Mopho?
Vermona Mono Lancet?

[Looping Loddar]

Waldorf Pulse!

[SWAN808]

you can also get a Moog SOurce for around $1000...Ive had the others and settled on the Source...

[matucha]

You can't go wrong with 09, pro one isn't better, just different. Pro one is more rude, 09 softer.

[gregor z]

SPAM: I am selling my completely refurbished (recapped with Panasonic , calibrated, cleaned etc) SH 09 with noise modification, and CV modification.

PM me if interested,

Best,

G

[Acid Hazard]

Originally Posted by matucha

You can't go wrong with 09, pro one isn't better, just different. Pro one is more rude, 09 softer.

I would think an extra VCO and far more extensive modulation options does make it a better over all synth. Maybe not better sounding for some, but certainly better synthesis.

[CoolColJ]

For aggressive finished gutteral bass sounds SH2 kicks the SE-1x. It can hang with the Minimoog when I had one side by side with it, just has a rougher, less choursed sound

refer to this thread for my demos
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6626677-post12.html


And compared to a Mnimoog
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6627809-post16.html

[Unique]

Originally Posted by Looping Loddar

Waldorf Pulse!

+1

[szf]

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

For aggressive finished gutteral bass sounds SH2 kicks the SE-1x.

Are you are asking for a SH2 - SE-1X showdown

Have to admit from the demos that certainly for punchy envs the SH2 kills it.

[CoolColJ]

Originally Posted by szf

Are you are asking for a SH2 - SE-1X showdown

Have to admit from the demos that certainly for punchy envs the SH2 kills it.

Having 3 VCOs is very nice, but a suboscillator gives a different purry bass guitar vibe

I would have bought an SE1x a long time ago if it had fast envelopes.
I used to own a SE Midi Moog and it was slow too.... and quite abit more static, nasal, brighter and thinner vs my minimoog

audio clips of it here
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6500491-post19.html

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by matucha

You can't go wrong with 09, pro one isn't better, just different. Pro one is more rude, 09 softer.

sorry pro one is far better in terms of what you can actually do with it.
it is a much more complex synth. i have both and agree with the above quote in terms of basic tone.

edit: oh snap +1 on acid hazard.

op if i could have one or the other it would be the pro1

but as ive said before i think the sh09 is great value

[living sounds]

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

Having 3 VCOs is very nice, but a suboscillator gives a different purry bass guitar vibe

I would have bought an SE1x a long time ago if it had fast envelopes.
I used to own a SE Midi Moog and it was slow too.... and quite abit more static, nasal, brighter and thinner vs my minimoog

audio clips of it here
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6500491-post19.html

I think that Midi Moog sounds great.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

I used to own a SE Midi Moog and it was slow too.... and quite abit more static, nasal, brighter and thinner vs my minimoog

Huh, weird. I always thought those were made from chopped up regular Minis.

[CoolColJ]

Sounded nothing like my Minimoog! Quite a lot brighter and thinner, and the much slower envelopes, along with different filter tone.

I actually bought it before my MiniMoog, for a pretty penny, from the UK
And I was never happy with it, I thought, this can't be how a MiniMoog sounds.

Then when I picked up a MiniMoog locally, I just couldn't believe the difference in sound, and I knew I finally had the real Mini tone.
Sold the Midi Moog for a big loss on Ebay, it was my first sale, worldwide at that, and I guess no one wanted to bid it on.
I kept dropping the price every week until someone in the US bought it - Insightspace
he even called and woke me in the middle of the night after the sale, I guess he thought I was a fake
Sold for $1865USD

The earlier versions may have had real MiniMoog boards inside, but SE started making their own circuits after that. Name later changed to Midi Mini

[RobJB06]

Hi CoolColJ,
Was your Midimoog one with Studio Electronics own designed boards inside?
I have a Midimoog with original Moog boards in it.
Im struggling to work out why it should different to the keyboard mini- the vco- vcf- eg- vca path is the same.. only the midi board is additional, but that is neither in the audio path or generating/shaping the envelopes..

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

Sounded nothing like my Minimoog! Quite a lot brighter and thinner, and the much slower envelopes, along with different filter tone.

I actually bought it before my MiniMoog, for a pretty penny, from the UK
And I was never happy with it, I thought, this can't be how a MiniMoog sounds.

Then when I picked up a MiniMoog locally, I just couldn't believe the difference in sound, and I knew I finally had the real Mini tone.
Sold the Midi Moog for a big loss on Ebay, it was my first sale, worldwide at that, and I guess no one wanted to bid it on.
I kept dropping the price every week until someone in the US bought it - Insightspace
he even called and woke me in the middle of the night after the sale, I guess he thought I was a fake
Sold for $1865USD

The earlier versions may have had real MiniMoog boards inside, but SE started making their own circuits after that. Name later changed to Midi Mini

[CoolColJ]

Originally Posted by RobJB06

Hi CoolColJ,
Was your Midimoog one with Studio Electronics own designed boards inside?
I have a Midimoog with original Moog boards in it.
Im struggling to work out why it should different to the keyboard mini- the vco- vcf- eg- vca path is the same.. only the midi board is additional, but that is neither in the audio path or generating/shaping the envelopes..

Who knows, it says MidiMoog, so I assume this had Minimoog boards.
But maybe not, or maybe the later Minimoog boards sound different
They also added a bunch of other stuff like Sync.

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by golden beers

sorry pro one is far better in terms of what you can actually do with it.
it is a much more complex synth. i have both and agree with the above quote in terms of basic tone.

edit: oh snap +1 on acid hazard.

op if i could have one or the other it would be the pro1

but as ive said before i think the sh09 is great value

What about the SH2 vs Pro One? ...at least that one has 2 osc, so much diff than an 09.

BTW: I read when controlling the SH-09/2 with an external keyboard via midi, it has an issue with drifting out of key/tune when going beyond an octave or two (I never had this problem with my other old synths). Does this happen with the Pro One as well??? If not, then I def wouldn't mind paying a little more for a less problematic, and at the same time, more feature laden Pro One. Makes the Pro One more worth it if it doesn't drift out of tune when playing beyond over it's natural octaves.

[maisonvague]

If you're into that BA622 sound another option would be a Roland Promars. Although not quite as rough and rugged as either an SH-2 or SH-09, it still has that classic old school vintage vibe typical of BA662 based synths. For me, it's THE Roland monosynth monster. Love it to death.

Finding one <$1k could be difficult... but then a Pro-One would probably set you back just as much.

Here's a down and dirty demo clip I just whipped up. It begins with a single oscillator, then adds the sub-oscillator, then transposes up an octave, then adds the second VCO one octave down, then cranks up the PWM in a progressive journey towards phatness.

[living sounds]

Originally Posted by fooddude

BTW: I read when controlling the SH-09/2 with an external keyboard via midi, it has an issue with drifting out of key/tune when going beyond an octave or two (I never had this problem with my other old synths). Does this happen with the Pro One as well??? If not, then I def wouldn't mind paying a little more for a less problematic, and at the same time, more feature laden Pro One. Makes the Pro One more worth it if it doesn't drift out of tune when playing beyond over it's natural octaves.

I've got an SH-2 controlled via a Kenton Pro Solo. Once it had time to heat up the tuning is stable, as well as correct over the entire range.

[maginotrock]

Originally Posted by living sounds

I've got an SH-2 controlled via a Kenton Pro Solo. Once it had time to heat up the tuning is stable, as well as correct over the entire range.

Same experience here. I have an sh09 I'm controlling with an mpu 101 and don't have tuning issues either. Not sure where that particular urban legend would have started.

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by living sounds

I've got an SH-2 controlled via a Kenton Pro Solo. Once it had time to heat up the tuning is stable, as well as correct over the entire range.

same here on the SH09 and Pro1.

fooddude has heard wrong someplace

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by fooddude

What about the SH2 vs Pro One? ...at least that one has 2 osc, so much diff than an 09.

BTW: I read when controlling the SH-09/2 with an external keyboard via midi, it has an issue with drifting out of key/tune when going beyond an octave or two (I never had this problem with my other old synths). Does this happen with the Pro One as well??? If not, then I def wouldn't mind paying a little more for a less problematic, and at the same time, more feature laden Pro One. Makes the Pro One more worth it if it doesn't drift out of tune when playing beyond over it's natural octaves.

SH2 vs PRO1
in terms of synthsis power PRO1 wins hands down.
in terms of bass. again PRO1 wins in my subjective opinion.
in terms of tone.. theyre both great and sound very different.

getting back to SH09 vs SH2.

i've noticed that SH2's seem to be going for way more than they used to, often twice as much as SH09's.

do yourself a favour if youre seriously considering a high priced SH2 then instead you should just buy 2X SH09's!

[Malkit]

My take on the two, after playing with the filter envelopes-

SE-1: papapapa poooow wow wow syooooop syooop mwa mwa feeeee

Sh2: chunk chunk chunk chunk woof whooom bow bow lililililililili zzzz ooof yeee

I prefer the chunk to the papa.

[CoolColJ]

I don't really consider the Pro 1 to be a bassy, bonky subsonic synth like the SH2

SH2 needs to be moddded. Mine has VCA and VCF CV sockets added to it, which makes it like a Minimoog connectivity wise. Works well with Silent Way's VST LFO - 24 bit smoothness

Then you'll get all the modulation you could ever want and midi to CV conversion if you have an audio interface that is DC coupled

http://soundcloud.com/coolcolj/roland-sh2-and-silent-way-vst

[living sounds]

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

I don't really consider the Pro 1 to be a bassy, bonky subsonic synth like the SH2

SH2 needs to be moddded. Mine has VCA and VCF CV sockets added to it, which makes it like a Minimoog connectivity wise. Works well with Silent Way's VST LFO - 24 bit smoothness

Then you'll get all the modulation you could ever want and midi to CV conversion if you have an audio interface that is DC coupled

http://soundcloud.com/coolcolj/roland-sh2-and-silent-way-vst

Tell me more about the VCA CV! I've added VCF CV and I'm thinking about adding CV for the resonance, too. How did you do it? Also, do you use Silent Way for the gate as well? The stock SH-2 requires a 9V trigger pulse no audio interface should be capable of.

[CoolColJ]

Originally Posted by living sounds

Tell me more about the VCA CV! I've added VCF CV and I'm thinking about adding CV for the resonance, too. How did you do it? Also, do you use Silent Way for the gate as well? The stock SH-2 requires a 9V trigger pulse no audio interface should be capable of.

I had a local tech by the name of Steve Jones add them in for me a decade agao - I didn't get to test them until this year as I didn't and still don't have a midi to CV interface
He does post here once in a while.

I just tried the Silent Way demo, and recorded the above clip. My audio interfaces are not DC coupled so the Midi to CV doesn't work properly, but the trigger does fire the SH2, and the LFO works great for some reason