Sounddiver

[m127b]

I have been trying hard to find a copy of sounddiver.
Nothing on eBay (not in MX, EU, US)
Any good samaritan willing to point in the right direction?

I just can't find a copy.

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by m127b

I have been trying hard to find a copy of sounddiver.
Nothing on eBay (not in MX, EU, US)
Any good samaritan willing to point in the right direction?

I just can't find a copy.

<link removed by moderator>

I think this guy can hook you up. I grabbed one a couple of months ago. Amazing software if you have a lot of hardware. I tried the other one (midiquest) I found Sounddiver much more friendly and intuitive. Good luck

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by m127b

I have been trying hard to find a copy of sounddiver.
Nothing on eBay (not in MX, EU, US)
Any good samaritan willing to point in the right direction?

I just can't find a copy.

Pm me I had a copy,it wa the last version they made for pc, pm me ill check tomar


Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App

[Acid Mitch]

Originally Posted by Teknobeam

<link removed by moderator>

I think this guy can hook you up. I grabbed one a couple of months ago. Amazing software if you have a lot of hardware. I tried the other one (midiquest) I found Sounddiver much more friendly and intuitive. Good luck

Isn't against Gearslutz rules to link to illegal/cracked software ?

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by Acid Mitch

Isn't against Gearslutz rules to link to illegal/cracked software ?

well, as I always say...."no good deed goes unpunished" I purchased that software on Ebay. It was followed up by a hard copy on CD. I wouldn't even begin to attempt to argue legal issues regarding the legitimacy of the product. But I didn't give the OP a map to meet a guy in a back alley for some bootleg software. So Mitch, feel free to show me that this is illegal bootleg software and that I have promoted as to said allegation.

[Acid Mitch]

Originally Posted by Teknobeam

So Mitch, feel free to show me that this is illegal bootleg software and that I have promoted as to said allegation.

1. Sounddiver 3.05 patch is/was a free download. It shouldn't be bought or sold.
2. The Ebay advert shows several signs that the software is not legal. Do I have to list them for you ?
3. You say yourself you recieved a hard copy that is not legal.
4. You supplied a link to software you know to be not legal. How is that not promoting it ?

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by Acid Mitch

1. Sounddiver 3.05 patch is/was a free download. It shouldn't be bought or sold.
2. The Ebay advert shows several signs that the software is not legal. Do I have to list them for you ?
3. You say yourself you recieved a hard copy that is not legal.
4. You supplied a link to software you know to be not legal. How is that not promoting it ?

Well Mitch, the first mistake you made was assuming that I would support "illegal" distribution of "intellectual property". I did do some research prior to purchasing that software. Sound Diver has been dissolved for quite some time. Not only are they dissolved, they have rolled up the red carpet and no longer remotely offer any support or upgrades to their intellectual property. I'm not an I P lawyer, and without making assumptions, I would ask how much you know about I P law. If this were a copy of Logic 4, 5, 6, 7 ..... that was being sold, we would be talking about a completely different issue here. This isn't that scenario.

[Yoozer]

You've essentially described the problem with books that are out of print; it costs too much to reprint them, but in the meantime, copyright law prevents you from scanning/OCRing a book and doing it yourself.

See Abandonware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - in short, the law says you aren't allowed to. The solution is to not get a copy of the discontinued product but a copy of a similar product that does the same.

Most people would tell you that you simply gave the cash to the wrong guy; if you're pirating anything anyway, get it for free, because the fact that you bought this on eBay will not protect you.

(not that Apple would waste a cubic millimeter of lawyer on this, but still).

[Acid Mitch]

Originally Posted by Teknobeam

Well Mitch, the first mistake you made was assuming that I would support "illegal" distribution of "intellectual property". I did do some research prior to purchasing that software. Sound Diver has been dissolved for quite some time. .

What do you mean by dissolved ?
Emagic was the original manufacturer. Apple bought Emagic.At a later date Apple discontinued Sounddiver and supoport for it. Apple still own copyrights etc for SoundDiver.
Apple only bought Emagic 9 years ago. That isn't "quite some time ".

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

You've essentially described the problem with books that are out of print; it costs too much to reprint them, but in the meantime, copyright law prevents you from scanning/OCRing a book and doing it yourself.

See Abandonware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - in short, the law says you aren't allowed to. The solution is to not get a copy of the discontinued product but a copy of a similar product that does the same.

Most people would tell you that you simply gave the cash to the wrong guy; if you're pirating anything anyway, get it for free, because the fact that you bought this on eBay will not protect you.

(not that Apple would waste a cubic millimeter of lawyer on this, but still).

Yes, you are correct. 'Abandonware" isn't recognized formally under existing copyright laws. But as you have pointed out, it's really not worthwhile or even in anyones interest to enforce these kinds of extraneous issues. There is no purpose or gain. I would suggest that it's a lack of willingness to formally turn this unwanted previous Ip asset into a "public domain" status most likely due to the effort it would require that is the issue.

[seraan]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

The solution is to not get a copy of the discontinued product but a copy of a similar product that does the same.

is there a software that offers the same functions, stability and simplicity? Many will argue that midiquest isn't in the same league...

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by Acid Mitch

What do you mean by dissolved ?
Emagic was the original manufacturer. Apple bought Emagic.At a later date Apple discontinued Sounddiver and supoport for it. Apple still own copyrights etc for SoundDiver.
Apple only bought Emagic 9 years ago. That isn't "quite some time ".

Well Mitch, let Apple either support their asset and exercise their due diligence by recognizing the value and need of existing and on going customers or turn the software out into cyberspace as a gesture of their good will. Well, they won't be doing either. That's not how they roll. But they won;t be worrying about a few moth eaten haggard old die hard fossils like myself and possibly a few others that actually bought the product when there was a F---- promise of eternity before the plug was pulled. Apple was the "other" major digital software superpower that emerged with Microsoft when the only graphical user interface was an etch a sketch. And now you are going to be the arbiter of what's fair, reasonable, and make some kind of moral judgement about a piece of software that will never (let me repeat) never be re introduced no matter what happens. Bottom line... if Apple want's to protect their coveted Sound Diver, I'm sure they will take the necessary steps. Maybe you could head up the campaign.

[Reptil]

Wow it's been already 9 years?

As much as I dislike Apple's descision to put Sounddiver in a coma, it is still their property, as they bought Emagic and everything with it.
However, Sounddiver was a commercial product, and can be re-sold. The patch is bound by the same user agreement (I looked it up).
So this is not pirated software, but a very shady attempt to make money from something that was a free download.
You'd still need the Sounddiver software.
Such is the free market created by Apple's descision. CAVEAT EMPTOR

Here's an old thread. Same subject.
Where to get SoundDiver???

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by Reptil

So it could be that this patch was ok to distribute.

Nope, this illegal, even when the patch was free for licensed 3.0 owners. Copyright means the right to make copies. Charging for this free update is even more worse. To make money from someone else's IP is stealing.

While I agree that Apple should put the SoundDiver into the public domain, they did not! Any copy of SD (or other SW) that is sold without the original install disk (or HW key) is illegal. It is as simple as that.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by Teknobeam

what's fair, reasonable

Dura lex, sed lex.

Don't take it out on Mitch; while pretty much anyone would be willing to agree about how it's unreasonable and they should just let that horse bolt out of the gates, that's the choice Apple ultimately has to make.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

Nope, this illegal, even when the patch was free for licensed 3.0 owners. Copyright means the right to make copies. Charging for this free update is even more worse. To make money from someone else's IP is stealing.

While I agree that Apple should put the SoundDiver into the public domain, they did not! Any copy of SD (or other SW) that is sold without the original install disk (or HW key) is illegal. It is as simple as that.

Correct. But... this is not Sounddiver itself, but a patch, which was only offered as download (and thus it's sale is not restricted by an install disk, or hardware key). I.o.w. you'd still need an official copy of Sounddiver for it to work. ONLY A SUCKER WOULD BUY THIS.
To end a meaningless discussion, because the legal issue is a grey area, and since the link is of little use, I'm taking it down.

I still have that hardware key somewhere. And all the installers and a whole folder full of cool patches (backup of my hardware) and editors. For OS9.

[maisonvague]

Sound Diver.

What would I do without it? It's the most invaluable and irreplaceable program I use. The alternatives MIDIQUEST and UNISYN are both inferior programs IMO.

I have a legit copy of Sound Diver. I've often wondered what I would do if the CD (required for periodic authorizations) (which is very annoying, by the way) became unreadable.

I asked a lawyer friend of mine with experience in intellectual property law about "abandonware" and such. I actually brought up this specific case of eMagic Sound Diver. In a nutshell he said that abandonware is a philosophy, a movement, a plea to release obsolete software to the public domain, not a legal code. Contrary to popular belief, there IS NO GRAY AREA when it comes to cases like eMagic Sound Diver. Apple acquired full rights to this software when it bought out eMagic. Thus the company which owns the rights to the software still exists.

The notion that since eMagic no longer exists, that it's no longer available for purchase and that it's no longer supported therefore means it's ok to use a crack is only wishful thinking. Period.

Pirates, anarchists, and overzealous open source advocates may tell you otherwise, but this is how it stands according to current international copyright and intellectual property law. I'm not happy about it either, but there you have it.

[Reptil]

I agree 100%.
It is however impossible to prove that this downloadable patch is illegal or not.
To be clear: THE LINK WAS JUST THE DOWNLOADABLE PATCH, NOT SOUNDDIVER ITSELF.

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by Reptil

Correct. But... this is not Sounddiver itself, but a patch, which was only offered as download (and thus it's sale is not restricted by an install disk, or hardware key)

No grey area: You cannot charge for someone else's IP! Even for a simple update, and if it was only available as download. Providing such update for free on your server is illegal too. You need the right to store (copy) it there too. Just because no one is suing does not make things legal. End of story.

Unfortunately as it is, the Sound Diver is off the market. I don't think Apple will put it into the Public Domain, and any new development implausible. The market for ITB is too big related to the demand for a new Sound Diver. Us dinosaurs who are still primarily using HW synths have to use a vintage computer or die!

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

No grey area: You cannot charge for someone else's IP!.........

hmm you may be right.
consider this:
what if the guy put it on a disk? and included it with a LEGAL copy of Sounddiver in a sale? strictly speaking that would still make the patch on that disk an illegal copy.

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

Unfortunately as it is, the Sound Diver is off the market. I don't think Apple will put it into the Public Domain, and any new development implausible. The market for ITB is too big related to the demand for a new Sound Diver. Us dinosaurs who are still primarily using HW synths have to use a vintage computer or die!

There's a lot of professional musicians (me included) using hardware. Apple abandoned that market. It's really strange that there's no substitute on the market already. Even if it's a &%($*# iPad app. I'd certainly buy it.

[maisonvague]

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

Us dinosaurs who are still primarily using HW synths have to use a vintage computer or die!

Yep. Periodically, in a feeble effort to ween myself off Sound Diver and 'future proof' my studio, I will go on a 'save as standard MIDI file' binge with my patch banks and archive them.

Still, as ridiculous as this may sound, if my house ever caught on fire, the next thing I would think about after my family, master recordings, and vintage gear would be my Sound Diver CD (in that order).

Insane.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by maisonvague

the next thing I would think about after my family, master recordings, and vintage gear would be my Sound Diver CD (in that order).

Insane.

Especially since you only have 30 seconds to get out safely.

If you're worried about your CD, I hope you keep a backup image somewhere. Preferably multiple copies at locations that are not your house.

[maisonvague]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

If you're worried about your CD, I hope you keep a backup image somewhere. Preferably multiple copies at locations that are not your house.

I've tried numerous times, without success. There is some sort of clever protection code burned into hidden sectors on the disc which prevents mere mortals like myself from making copies. Copying discs for archive purposes IS actually a gray area... but I really would sleep better at night knowing I had a backup image stored off-site.

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by Reptil

what if the guy put it on a disk? and included it with a LEGAL copy of Sounddiver in a sale? strictly speaking that would still make the patch on that disk an illegal copy.

Even "fair use" in the US does not help you there. IMO the copyright of software companies goes too far. It is insane!

Originally Posted by Reptil

There's a lot of professional musicians (me included) using hardware. Apple abandoned that market. It's really strange that there's no substitute on the market already. Even if it's a &%($*# iPad app. I'd certainly buy it.

I put my bet on iPad apps. I hope someone will fill the gap eventually.

Originally Posted by Yoozer

If you're worried about your CD, I hope you keep a backup image somewhere. Preferably multiple copies at locations that are not your house.

Again "Fair Use" does not help you. You are allowed to make backup copies, but once you loose the original disk, you are required to destroy the backups! Legally speaking, you are not even allowed to install a program with your backup copy! The insanity has no end!

Another good reason to use only HW synths!

Originally Posted by maisonvague

I've tried numerous times, without success. There is some sort of clever protection code burned into hidden sectors on the disc which prevents mere mortals like myself from making copies. Copying discs for archive purposes IS actually a gray area... but I really would sleep better at night knowing I had a backup image stored off-site.

It is a better approach to make a backup image of your entire computer.

[maisonvague]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

Especially since you only have 30 seconds to get out safely.

LOL. Best not to think about it. It's a good thing so many of my synths have wooden side panels because I should probably go knock on some wood after this!

[maisonvague]

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

It is a better approach to make a backup image of your entire computer.

I already do this during regular studio maintenance. The authorization will still expire regardless and requires the original CD to re-authorize. Those eMagic guys were infamous for hard ass copy-protection schemes. A most unfortunate legacy I just have to put up with if I want to continue using the software.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

Even "fair use" in the US does not help you there. IMO the copyright of software companies goes too far. It is insane!

That's the weird part; seeing that they are harping on the fact that you buy a license, the original medium it came on should not matter one bit; you get to use one instance of the software on a single computer, whether it's on a CD or USB stick doesn't matter; you've paid for the license already.

They can't have it both ways, though they'll try.

[msl]

Its all academic, in reality Apple could care less about SoundDiver, there's no profit in it for them, they won't chase you either that costs money.


.

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

That's the weird part; seeing that they are harping on the fact that you buy a license, the original medium it came on should not matter one bit; you get to use one instance of the software on a single computer, whether it's on a CD or USB stick doesn't matter; you've paid for the license already.

They can't have it both ways, though they'll try.

The problem the SW companies get away with it. For Example Windows is only legal (there are exceptions) with Original Install Media, License Sticker, AND the EULA paper. MS dictates that Windows Starter Edition cannot be installed on a virtual machine.

Apple is not a bit better, but that would be a topic for an entire different thread. Getting back to topic:

SoundDiver is great and (so far) unparalleled. If someone is going to make something new and equally as powerful for the iPad, I am the 1st one to jump on it!

[Transistor]

Sounddiver saved my sweet behind when my Microwave's battery went bellyup. I'd love an update (although it still runs on Win7/64, funnily enough).

And, to the OP, given the program's current status, I'd assume the big A wouldn't give a rodent's heiny about whether it's used or not, nor which "version" we're talking about... Illegal? Pretty likely. Immoral? A nod is as good as a wink...

r,
j,