Going crazy choosing bass/synth patches and drum sounds. Any ideas???

[d1rtynyc]

Hey there.
I was hoping some people out there can impart some tips or personal experience that can help me with a major issue in my production.

Lately every time I get to make music I have this major issue that really slows me down and frankly is driving me nuts.

I am having a really hard time choosing drum sounds and synth patches (self programed or even presets).
Nothing seems to be good enough when setting up my track or session.

It's not that I have not been productive, because I have. I have got much work done (mostly in the past) and made some cash. So it's not a question of me not being capable to make things work. I just can't seem get the ingredients lately.


Let's start with drums:
I sift through hundreds of drum patches and spend hours programming sounds in Battery, Guru, Ultrabeat, Drumaxx, BPM, Punch, Kontakt.... The list goes on. I go through tons of samples in my 500gb sample library and I get so frustrated. I just can't seem to commit and find or make a drum kit that works that I am happy with.

Some might say I might want to use hardware, but the problem was there in the past when I used a 909, DX, Xbase09, R8 w/ all the cards, MPC, RY30, Machine Drum, ect. ect..
Others might say I have to many choices. (This I agree with, but it a luxury problem.) I do restrict myself to one drum synth or sample library and while that can help I just have such a hard time being content.


The same is true for my bass & synth patches. I have an enormous list of great VI synths and sample libraries as well. I just can't be happy and I am constantly tweaking and getting frustrated.

Again, I've had a huge array of HW synths in the past so I know what I am missing and not missing from that route. I do miss HW & I will go hybrid when space permits. My set-up needs to be very small right now.


The thing that kills me is that most of my favorite tracks have some of the simplest drum sounds, basses or synth patches. I listen and I know that it is in the construction and not the brick.
I just can't seem to let it be simple and let the track evolve around a concept and stop searching for the elusive perfect sound.

This is my writer's block.

Have you had, or still have this problem?
Did you find a solution?
What works for you?
Any tips or help is appreciated.

[msl]

Originally Posted by d1rtynyc

I sift through hundreds of drum patches and spend hours programming sounds in Battery, Guru, Ultrabeat, Drumaxx, BPM, Punch, Kontakt.... The list goes on. I go through tons of samples in my 500gb sample library and I get so frustrated. I just can't seem to commit and find or make a drum kit that works that I am happy with.

I'll only deal with this part of your question. For me you just stated your problem. Too much choice. More importantly too much choice at the wrong moment, when your trying to get down to composition.

My way around this, as I also have hundred of gigs of samples is to make 'collections' of samples I want to use on a project before I start, also the use of 'favorites' folders. So on a day when I'm not inspired to write, I'll do my organizing and go through all these samples, selecting only the best of the best. The ones I really like and represent the sound I'm after.

I'm sure you know all the above, I have a suspicion your problem might just be writers block generally. We all go through periods (or at least I do) where I pretty much hate everything I'm making. It will pass.


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[Simonator]

I certainly know what you mean & I'm sure we've all been there.

I guess I have my 'go to' destinations, and they get the job done for me.

Kicks/Hats/Snares > Wave Alchemy

Claps > No Dough NDS-1

Sub bass > Rob Papen Albino

Bass Guitar > Manytone Manybass

Softsynth Bass > DCAM/Xils

Analogue Bass > Kraftzwerg



What has really helped is having a highly organised sample collection:

Originally Posted by Simonator

Mine became an absolutely unfathomable mess. Took me almost two weeks of work just to sort it out.

Now I have it arranged as-

Top level 'Sounds' folder.

Within that different categories such as
*Single Hits & Multi-samples
*Loops
*Homemade Sounds
*Homemade Instrument Patches
*Midi
*Impulse Responses
*Vocals
*Apple Loop Packs
*Field Recordings
*Soundfonts
*Test Tones
*[Insert software developer A name here] Sound Library
*[Insert software developer B name here] Sound Library
*[Insert software developer C name here] Sound Library

(Those latter sound libraries are ones where a plug-in comes with a very specific sound library that the software references directly & is placed there during the installation... as opposed to just some loopmasters hits... which would be broken up to the relevant locations (ie 'Kick Drums'.).)

Most of those are easily manageable, but the two most important are the single hits & loops...

Within each the next level is divided to:
*Percussion
*Musical/pitched

Within each of those I then categorise by instrument... so taking single hits>percussion as an example...

*Agogo
*Hi Hat
*Kick
*Snare
etc

Then within each of those I categorise by developer, so within 'Kicks' might be:

*Computer Music
*Loopmasters
*Other
*Zero-G

It takes AGES to break up all your existing libraries... eg to disassemble something like 'Zero-G Random Afro Bullcrap' into seperate 'Kicks' 'Snares'

But ... I find this system works an absolute dream. Previously I'd always be like 'Sh**, I know I have loads of Guiro samples... but heaven knows which of the sample packs they are in... now in a second I can see ALL guiro samples I own.

Categorising by developer within each sound has several advantages:
A.) I know exactly where the sound came from, which can be useful.
B.) It prevents having a folder with 20,000 kick drums which would just be unnavigable.
C.) It helps me narrow in on 'go to' sounds that I know to be of best quality within that type of sound.

Hope this helps :-)

[Simonator]

Originally Posted by msl

...

... Posted while I was writing my reply, and we both independently say 'sample organisation'... got to be something in that then!

[atma]

you might try this, depending on what kind of music you do:

force yourself to over-ride your propensity for being obsessive compulsive about the actual sounds until you've composed the track. try to initially focus strictly on the composition and arrangement—you could go so far as to intentionally use shitty, generic general midi sounds until the track is composed/arranged. then in the mixing stage you can start to substitute better sounds and spend as long as you want getting that aspect to your liking. it's difficult to do, but there are some advantages to it—for one, your indecisiveness won't stunt your ability to actually get anywhere with the song—you could pretty much have a finished composition before you even start worrying about the sounds themselves. and the other good aspect is that great songwriting/melodies/etc., will be apparent even with garbage sounds; whereas a lot of times you might have a great sounding synth patch but it actually somewhat masks the fact that the melodies or composition are weak.

of course this really wont work for some styles of electronic music; essentially those where the sounds themselves are the essence of the track vs. melodies and composition.

[sneaks]

Perhaps try working in a different style than what is typical for you. I agree with the person who said it was possibly just general writers block, in which case, it will pass. But yeah, try making something off the wall and completely different for yourself.

[Yoozer]

The above is a technique that's already in use.

If you look at concept art (Youtube has several "speed painting" videos that show timelapse recordings of digital artists, I have a few great HD ones but I should search for the links again) - you'll see that they usually start to draw the scene in greyscale first. This allows them to focus on composition/placement and light and shadow, first - then they start to worry about color.

[Jonny_silva]

Also if you start with generic sounds and you can get something to sound good like that, then it will sound immediately 10 times better when you start subbing the sounds. Just aslong as you dont listen over and over and get 'used' to the generic sounds because then you will be to attached to it and think nothing else sounds good!

[sftd]

Originally Posted by Jonny_silva

Also if you start with generic sounds and you can get something to sound good like that, then it will sound immediately 10 times better when you start subbing the sounds. Just aslong as you dont listen over and over and get 'used' to the generic sounds because then you will be to attached to it and think nothing else sounds good!

I write my songs via the sound replacement methods talked about above, and the last line of what I just quoted is very true, I've ran into it multiple times, watch out!

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App

[worm]

this is something i've battled with for a long time... just lately i've really decided to give it a kicking once and for all.

first thing you need to do is quit writing for a little while and just dedicate time to exploring your samples/patches and make some favorites folders for each type of sound. use something along the lines of simonator's category system.

in those favorites folders you don't want to have too many sounds in there so you can just go in and know that within 30 seconds you've got a drumkit you're happy with. for me its something like 20 - 35 drums of each type all well labelled with names that makes it easy to work out which one is going to work.

make up your own labelling/folder system. spend quite a few hours doing this, picking only the finest samples you have and you will be very happy.

if you still have the patience after that go ahead and make yourself some premade kits for whatever sampler you use and call them things like 'chill house, rough dnb' or whatever you want.

obviously these kits will be edited further down the line but at least they'll be nice and inspiring from the get go.

then do the same for your synth patches.


i realy believe that selecting patches is a big killer of creative flow... this shit needs to be done.

[d1rtynyc]

There is some really great tips here. I really appreciate it! I am going to put many of the techniques into play this week.

Yoozer's speed painting post was really a cool idea.

A question to Simonator:
When you went about sorting everything in your sample library do you duplicate the sample thus keeping it in the parent folder as well?

I am going to spend Sunday doing this. I'll pop some Adderall and get on it.
I also checked out your tracks and really dig your stuff. Your "go to" list is great too.

[rockerbruce]

Yup, when I get stuck in that mode I force myself to program the midi with whatever sounds I can choose the quickest. Once the starting patterns are set up I go back and swap out sounds as needed.
Sometimes it works out

[Simonator]

Originally Posted by d1rtynyc

A question to Simonator:
When you went about sorting everything in your sample library do you duplicate the sample thus keeping it in the parent folder as well?

Nope. I have 0.5 terabytes of samples, and so cannot afford to have duplicates; just broke up the parent directories.

Once you have it sorted like this you'll not want to go back to how it was before anyway... though I have personally been a bit lazy & not strictly kept to this system when buying new libraries... so I could do with spending a day to sort that myself.

[worm]

yeah it's all well and good doing this but it's also something that has to be kept up otherise you'll just end up in a mess. i bet back in the days of buying a 700mb sample cd people had more patience to sit through the samples picking their favorites out.

[James Meeker]

Just pick and move on.

A less-than-perfect track TODAY beats the perfect track ten years from now.

This does highlight the dilemma of choice. We have tons of competing choices and tons of powerful tools at our disposal. What to choose? It's almost existential; Sartre would understand.

Just go for it.

I specifically limit my available options and try to run as small of a setup as possible. I don't let anything into my little world unless it's going to get serious use. You can get so lost in the options.

[Whalez]

you can be poor like me and only have two soft synths lol

[Beany]

Whoa! That's a lot of drum plug-ins, I can see why you're getting into trouble

Good suggestions so far. I use Battery to build up kits rather than break up the sample folders. Every other Sunday (normally if I'm hung-over or not feeling very creative) I'll spend time wading through my samples collection whilst the laundry is in the wash.

I started off on kicks, opened 4 instances of Battery, called them Subby (for ones with lots of sub 60Hz content), Punchy (for ones around 120Hz), Middy (for ones around 90Hz) & Rocky for anything that wasn't really Electronic/Dancey. Once I got to 49 samples I'd save it as 'Subby 001 Kit' (as my midi keyboard only has 49keys).

After a while I realised I had definite favourites and then put these in my 'Killer Kicks' kit. Before I knew it I had kits of my favorite kicks, hats, toms, snares/claps & percs all mapped across my keyboard so then I started building up my own kits by picking a kick & auditioning snares and claps against it until I was happy & then moving on to hats etc. Although I kept percussion separate as I found it wouldn't always suit a track.

It's always good to have a 'Sketch' template too for when inspiration does hit you. My default has Battery for drums, Trillian for bass and 3 instances of Sylenth for lead, pads & whatever. I don't put any effects in there though as I always get distracted & drift into mixing mode. Try and swap stuff out to get closer to the sound that was originally in your head before doing any mixing.

[Greeg]

Too much choice.

1. Try to narrow the list of synths you use. You may try to uninstall some - if you wont miss anything then you dont need these synths.

2. This can be time consuming but at the end you'll be happy you did this. What ? Synth by synth, try to create your favourite, custom soundbank. Just scroll through every preset and add to your "favourite custom soundbank" only these presets that fit your genre and you like them. Todybear Minihost has very nice support for managing FXB soundbanks - you can copy presets between soundbanks etc.

I did this with for example V-Station. Instead of like hmm 2000 presets, I ended up with about 200-300 favourite presets.

About sample libraries I'm trying to organise them.

For example I have:
|- Loops
.......|- Drum Loops
.......|- Synth Loops
.......|- Bass Loops

inside each folder (drum loops, synth loops, bass loops) I have folders named same as the sample libraries so for example - Vengeance Club Samples, Loopmasters Electro etc.

|- Drum Hits
.......|- Kick
.......|- Snare
.......|- Clap
.......|- Hi-Hat
.......|- Cymbal
etc.

|- Drum Kits
|- Effects

And just like with loops, inside each folder I have folders named as the sample libraries.

Why am I keeping sample library folder names ? Well, thanks to this I have some point of reference. Loop named ab-125-sq43453.wav dont tell anything. But if this loop is in folder: Loopmasters House Sessions then I pretty much have an idea what's inside

Also, when I have some new sample library, i try to review it - i scroll sample by sample and delete the "obvious" crap staff i will never use. It cant be too strict (one day i may delete sample, the other day i could say that it's a great sample ) - at the beginning removing just total crap will help quite a lot.

Well, these are my tips

[offki]

The thing that kills me is that most of my favorite tracks have some of the simplest drum sounds, basses or synth patches. I listen and I know that it is in the construction and not the brick.

You had the answer all along.

Just get the 'actual tune' rolling along then go back and tweak sounds. It's like building a house, start with foundations, structure.

It's easy to get stuck trying to fit a gold plated sink to hole in the ground.


I often just use a piano or something neutral to get a melody going, depends.

And what everyone else says about organization and too much choice.

[Beany]

Originally Posted by offki

I often just use a piano or something neutral to get a melody going, depends.

That's great advice! I must admit I haven't picked up my guitar for about 3 years and I was far more productive back then.

[gremlin moon]

Not to get new agey, but listlessly sorting through kits and such might be influenced by other life stress or dissatisfaction. I'm not saying it is but worth thinking about. Especially if the computer is used for work etc. [For the record BTW I don't think you have too many drum-production programs -- each has it's place.]

[msl]

The issue with using say a GM piano to sketch things out and then replace it is that a lot of edm is about the actual sound itself and the effects it has, that give the vibe. If your composing a traditional pop song (ie traditional song structures) then sure grab your guitar and just notate it. But for techno it won't do.

I don't duplicate the samples/patches, I just remove them from the collections into my own folders. All the collections reside with in one big folder that I rarely visit unless I'm really stuck, I always find the sound I'm looking for in my favourites folders. Yeah it sucks spending half a day going through it all every time you get new samples but ultimately it saves time in the end.


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[offki]

Originally Posted by msl

The issue with using say a GM piano to sketch things out and then replace it is that a lot of edm is about the actual sound itself and the effects it has, that give the vibe. If your composing a traditional pop song (ie traditional song structures) then sure grab your guitar and just notate it. But for techno it won't do.

It's just a different approach to try. It works for some and not for others. I think saying it won't do is a bit odd, you're trying to say that no-one who makes techno has just started off with a piano/single wave melody? Really? You sure? Final answer?

Reality is starting with a kick ass sound is a modern practise made possible by presets and good quality preset banks. Just thought the OP sounds like he needs to have a song to wrap the sounds he chooses around because it's not working the other way.

I know where you're coming from though, tried to explain what you're saying to someone and they just stared at me like I was smoking crack, I gave up.

[cdog]

When you get a sound thats close to what you want, just commit to it and tweak it for a minute or two. Then move on. It can always be replaced later, dont get bogged down...

[msl]

Originally Posted by offki

Reality is starting with a kick ass sound is a modern practise made possible by presets and good quality preset banks.

Or hardware, just fire up your SH101. Not saying you can't start with a vocal hook or a simple melody, but you'll need to go past that pretty quick and get into the sounds, maybe with something like trance it would be more suited, a genre that is more melodic. I don't expect traditional song writers to get it.

As I understand it op's getting lost/losing the vibe while searching for sounds, so he needs to limit his choices, or preselect the best ones. I agree with cdog, don't get bogged down.



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