Are you Multi-timbral?

[Popbott]

There are a ton of outboard synths that have this ability, which is to be able to pull more than one sound out of your machine at one time on different MIDI channels using multiple outs if needed. At times, there are obvious draw-backs when going into multi-mode and using a synth in this way. For example, on Yamaha and Korg workstations, single sounds that have nice effects and special modulation routing are often turned into dry sounding lifeless patches in multi-mode. Korg workstations have the ability to “copy effect parameters” from Program or Combi mode into your multi, but ends up limiting your effect routing abilities the end. The Access Virus TI tackled that issue head on with multi-mode. It even embeds patch data for every part, so there is no need to worry about over writing patches used in another multi.

Anyhow, being that I usually start my ideas on outboard gear, I use synths in multi-timbral mode quite often and find this feature an intricate part my MIDI set-up. I am interested in knowing how many of you slutz use your synths in multi-timbral mode or not, listing your advantages and disadvantages in your workflow.

I took the liberty of listing only my multi-timbral synths too see if I could peek some interest in this feature that I would love to see implemented in boutique analog synths. I would find it quite pleasing if my Voyager was multi-timbral! The Andromeda A6 is the only analog synth I know of that is truly multi-timbral. I wish there were more in this category. Please feel free to list your multi-timbral synths, thank you.

Korg Triton – 16 parts, 4 outs
Korg O1W-FD – 16 parts, 4 outs
Yamaha EX-5r – 16 parts, 4 outs
Kurzweil K2000S - 16 parts, 6 outs
Nordlead2 – 4 parts, 4 outs
Roland JD-800 – 6 parts (including drum section), 4 outs
Roland SH-32 – 4 parts, 2 outs
Access Virus TI – 16 parts, 6 outs
Ensoniq ASR-10r – 8 parts, 8 outs
Andromeda A6 - 16 parts, 8 outs - (edit, correction: 16 outs, *thank you seen-da-sizer)
Yamaha CS1X – 2 parts (on one MIDI channel), 2 outs
Yamaha – TX81Z – 4 parts, 2 outs

[CfNorENa]

Originally Posted by Popbott

The Andromeda A6 is the only analog synth I know of that is truly multi-timbral.

DSI Tetra is four-part multi-timbral (and with separate outs). In a pinch, I suppose you could also add the Prophet '08 (bi-timbral, with separate outs) and the JX-10/MKS-70 (bi-timbral, with separate outs), but obviously that's nowhere near A6 territory.

As for the wider question, with the exception of combi mode on Korg workstations, I rarely play in multi-timbral mode. On my Blofeld, for example (16 part multi-timbral), I almost never use multi mode. I just multi-track...

[t.o.t.s.]

The multi-timbral synths I've got:
Alesis Ion (4 parts, 4 outs)
Novation KS-4 (4 parts, 4 outs)
Kawai k5000s (4 parts, 4 outs)
Walforf Microwave XTK (4 and 4 i think.. can't remember)
Kawai k1r (8 parts, 2 outs)

I never use multitimbral setups in the studio. Ever. However, I depend on them live... I use the Ion and Ks4 for that job. I'd like to replace the KS4 because of after years of road use it's really starting to get a little weak around the knees but that's a tough puppy to replace. I use three parts for tones and 1 part as an effect engine for the Ion. That little synth might have the best multi-timbral functions I've ever come across. No shared effects, external processing, decent number of voices... That's what I need from novation.. not these single voice jobs they've been delivering for the past decade.

[CoolColJ]

MKS80 is 2 part multi, separate midi channels for upper and lower sections, hardwired to 4 note poly each

I use multi all the time since I still fire a lot of my sounds live over midi

My XV5080 and Technics WSA1R are made for multi - they have 32 channels and 2 midi inputs, with 128 and 64 note poly each, 8 output pairs. TG77 the same with 16 parts

[maisonvague]

Roland XP-60 16-parts (4 audio outputs, 16 MIDI channels)
Roland JP-8000 2-parts (2 audio outputs, 2 MIDI channels)
Oberheim OB-Xa 2-parts (3 audio outputs, 1 MIDI channel)

I play my XP-60 in multi-timbral mode all the time. During the creative phase of a project, which usually involves a lot of improvisation, it's often nice to have ready access to several different timbres. Sometimes a simple split of bass on one half of the keyboard and strings/organ on the other half is enough. Other times I will make up to four zones, each with a different patch. I would imagine quite a lot of people work this way.

I've also got a patch stored in my MOTU MIDI Express which allows me to immediately assign any of the XP-60s 16 parts (16 MIDI channels) to outboard gear... including MIDI'd up vintage gear. It's a blast to have say a Prophet-5 on the lower third, an OB-Xa in the middle, and a Promars at the top (triggered via the CV outs on a BassStation rack). You can do the same thing of course on just about any MIDI controller, but somehow it just feels more like playing a real synth when I'm on the XP.

I also almost always play the JP-8000 and OB-Xa in split mode. Only rarely does a single patch sound great in all registers (a notable exception being the Oberheim Matrix synths which, because of their extensive keyboard scaling options, you can carefully shape over extreme ranges).

My favorite setup, though, is to be surrounded by synths Vangelis-style... each one ready to go!

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by CfNorENa

DSI Tetra is four-part multi-timbral (and with separate outs). In a pinch, I suppose you could also add the Prophet '08 (bi-timbral, with separate outs) and the JX-10/MKS-70 (bi-timbral, with separate outs), but obviously that's nowhere near A6 territory.

As for the wider question, with the exception of combi mode on Korg workstations, I rarely play in multi-timbral mode. On my Blofeld, for example (16 part multi-timbral), I almost never use multi mode. I just multi-track...

Woah, bonus points! I didn't know that about the Tetra, Prophet or JX-10, very interesting and noteworthy indeed.

[kilon]

Originally Posted by Popbott

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2] For example, on Yamaha and Korg workstations, single sounds that have nice effects and special modulation routing are often turned into dry sounding lifeless patches in multi-mode.

Not yamaha, its sounds dont depend on effects , in most cases in my motif es only a reverb is applied which is not a big deal as reverb / chorus are global and can be used by all timbres / tracks.

Quite frankly I have tried most if not all my motif's presets and they sound exceptional good even without any effects on them.

Multitimbral and polyphony is crucial for me, as I layer alot since cause is easier than making sounds from scratch and without those 2 , my life would have been alot harder. I also dont like to use many synths at the same time, I like to be focused and fast and this where the workstation (motif es6) is bread and butter for what i do. It may not have many knobs but when it comes to real time performance with as many sounds as possible, there is nothing out there that can match a workstation. Not even my andromeda.

[criminallysmooth]

Originally Posted by kilon

I also dont like to use many synths at the same time, I like to be focused and fast

This is why I love my MicroQ, it can do FM synthesis, VA subtractive, wavetables, basically every patch I'd want out of a digital synth simultaneously (16-part multitimbral) in a tiny package. I'm on the fence about what single analog to use to cover the rest of my bases but I can't see buying a different digital synth.

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by Popbott

Korg Triton – 16 parts, 4 outs
Korg O1W-FD – 16 parts, 4 outs
Yamaha EX-5r – 16 parts, 4 outs
Kurzweil K2000S - 16 parts, 6 outs
Nordlead2 – 4 parts, 4 outs
Roland JD-800 – 6 parts (including drum section), 4 outs
Roland SH-32 – 4 parts, 2 outs
Access Virus TI – 16 parts, 6 outs
Ensoniq ASR-10r – 8 parts, 8 outs
Andromeda A6 - 16 parts, 8 outs
Yamaha CS1X – 2 parts (on one MIDI channel), 2 outs
Yamaha – TX81Z – 4 parts, 2 outs

Are all these outs stereo or mono? For example A6: 16-parts, 8-stereo (=16-mono out). It looks like there will be some (unavoidable) inconsistencies.

Waldorf Wave: 8-part, 6-out
WSA1R: 32-part (2 MIDI in!), 4-out (expandable to 8)

[Mr Arkadin]

Roland JD-800 Single mode - stereo out, no directs. This is the only way to use the 'A' block effects like overdrive which are lost in multi-mode. Shared reverb, chorus, delay in multi-mode.

Roland JD-990 Performance (multi-timbal) mode - direct outs accessible via patchbay but rarely used. Not all parts used due to limited polyphony. Special and Rhythm Parts most commonly used. Special part retains 'A' block effects. Shared reverb, chorus, delay.

Roland SC-880 Use both Patch (single) and Performance (multi-mode) Just stereo out. I have no standard amount of used parts yet as it's still new to me, but I'll never get near using the 32 available (has a second MIDI in for 2x16 parts). Rhythm Part used often. All other parts can be sent to the great Multi-Effects block, but only one multi-effect can be selected, so if you have overdrive every part being sent would have the same overdrive. Shared reverb, chorus, delay, EQ. Sadly the audio input does not go through the effects: this would have made a great effects unit.

[BM0]

Originally Posted by Popbott

The Andromeda A6 is the only analog synth I know of that is truly multi-timbral. I wish there were more in this category.

Marion Systems MSR-2 is another 16 parts multi-timbral analog (8 or 16 voice configurations). Only two outputs though.

Some of the old analog polys with split or dual modes are two part multi-timbral.

[CfNorENa]

Originally Posted by criminallysmooth

This is why I love my MicroQ, it can do FM synthesis, VA subtractive, wavetables, basically every patch I'd want out of a digital synth simultaneously (16-part multitimbral) in a tiny package.

Same reason I love my Blofeld (though not, as I noted above, in multi mode).

Originally Posted by criminallysmooth

I'm on the fence about what single analog to use to cover the rest of my bases but I can't see buying a different digital synth.

Pair it up with a nice vintage analog mono. I sometimes wonder if I really need anything beyond my Blofeld and Pro-One . . .

. . . then check into gearslutz and realize that MORE IS MORE.

[Veck]

Clavia Nord Modular G2 (4 parts, 4 Mono or 2 Stereo Outs)

I used it's capabilities a lot for live playing, in the studio I don't use multi-timbrality, but I think I will reuse it becuase of this thread again, layering Andromeda voices

[fooloof]

I could never figure out how to get my Korg MS-2000 into multi mode. it's something I think would be highly conducive to my workflow. I like to work out a bass line and melody right away. sometimes one will influence the other. I solved that by getting more synths.

now that I have more synths ( but I had to return the Korg to its owner), I just control them all through a midi controller. so, it works out, though sometimes I would like to use two sounds on the same synth. I do have a Virus, so I will look into that at some point.

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

Are all these outs stereo or mono? For example A6: 16-parts, 8-stereo (=16-mono out). It looks like there will be some (unavoidable) inconsistencies.

Waldorf Wave: 8-part, 6-out
WSA1R: 32-part (2 MIDI in!), 4-out (expandable to 8)

My apologies, I mean them as mono outs. As far as my synth list, most of them have stereo main outs to take advantage of onboard effects that have left and right panning.

Also, I errored on the Andromeda, it has 16 mono outs, thanks for that correction.

[JimmiG]

I use my Blofeld in multi-timbral mode. I know I'm a bit backwards compared to how others work, but I like to wait as long as possible before committing anything to audio. That way I can always tweak a melody or parameter without going through a lot of steps. So multi-timbraily is great since I don't have to commit one track to audio to hear how it would work together with some other patch from the same synth.

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by Mr Arkadin

Roland JD-800 Single mode - stereo out, no directs. This is the only way to use the 'A' block effects like overdrive which are lost in multi-mode. Shared reverb, chorus, delay in multi-mode...

Like you mentioned, in single mode yes, no direct outs. In multi-mode, I use the direct outs quite often through my mixer and add my own effects to get some stunning results. I really don't like the delay effects on the JD800, the parameter settings don't allow you to get detailed values, the chorus really changes the overall sound of the JD's waveforms for my taste and the reverb, well that was Roland 20 years ago. Some may say this is part of what gives the JD800 it's special sound, which is how I loved it for a long time.

[cramseur]

My List:

Cheetah MS6 - 6 part multi-timbral Analog
Alesis A6
Roland JD-990
Yamaha Motif Rack
Yamaha TX81Z
Kawai K5000s
Roland MKS-80
Radikal Technologies Spectralis

[Bumply]

Monomachine...8 'machines', 6 outs

[Futureman84]

Wow, I didn't see anyone mention the first ever MIDI synth to be mulitimbral... (the first synth to ever use midi mode 4)

Sequential Circuits SixTrak!

Six part multitimbral, one output.
(can be easily modified for 6 outs)

Also, while not analogue, the CZ series can also be multitimbral.

[keybdwizrd]

I have always used my synths in multi mode and continue to do so. My Virus TI is best at this (as previously noted) due to having complete multi-effects for each of the 16 parts.

With romplers such as Yamahas and Korgs, I have found it best not to use the sweeping pads and whatnot that depend heavily on effects - I use Omnisphere and Absynth for stuff like this. I'll use my Yamaha MOX mostly for the proverbial bread-and-butter sounds that can get by with a bit of reverb and chorus - pianos, EPs, strings, basses, drums, winds, bells, etc.

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by kilon

Not yamaha, its sounds dont depend on effects , in most cases in my motif es only a reverb is applied which is not a big deal as reverb / chorus are global and can be used by all timbres / tracks.

Quite frankly I have tried most if not all my motif's presets and they sound exceptional good even without any effects on them.

Multitimbral and polyphony is crucial for me, as I layer alot since cause is easier than making sounds from scratch and without those 2 , my life would have been alot harder. I also dont like to use many synths at the same time, I like to be focused and fast and this where the workstation (motif es6) is bread and butter for what i do. It may not have many knobs but when it comes to real time performance with as many sounds as possible, there is nothing out there that can match a workstation. Not even my andromeda.

Well I don't have much experience with Yamaha synths aside from my Ex-5r and dabbling with a Motif at the music store. If you mean to say Yamaha workstation sounds are more defined without effects over, lets say a Triton, then yes I would agree. But some of my Ex-5r sounds are pretty plain without their internal effects.

I also agree there is nothing out there that can match a workstation when it comes to real-time performance (aside from a DAW). My only complaint there is that if I start a sequence and use a workstation as my main sound source, even with clever programming, in the end it can sound, well... like you used the same workstation for everything. Many times, I will do just that and end up substituting different sounds from different syths for a variation in sound. My Triton's D/A output converter is way different sounding than my K2000 even though they are both digital synths. Doing this definitely adds color to a mix.

Originally Posted by BM0

[/SIZE][/FONT]
Marion Systems MSR-2 is another 16 parts multi-timbral analog (8 or 16 voice configurations). Only two outputs though.

Some of the old analog polys with split or dual modes are two part multi-timbral.

Nice! I forgot this unit even existed, another fine Tom Oberheim instrument! I wonder if it sounds like a Matrix 1000 which is not multi-timbral. The only way to get more of that Matrix sound in a MIDI setup is to buy another one which a couple of friends of mine actually did.

Originally Posted by fooloof

I could never figure out how to get my Korg MS-2000 into multi mode. it's something I think would be highly conducive to my workflow.

The only way to get more than one sound out of the MS2000 would be to split the keyboard, it then becomes bi-timbral on one MIDI channel.

Originally Posted by JimmiG

I use my Blofeld in multi-timbral mode. I know I'm a bit backwards compared to how others work, but I like to wait as long as possible before committing anything to audio..

It's not backwards; it's just a different way of working. But that is why I started this thread, curious to see more posts. I do the same thing and enjoy designing my sounds on the fly before committing audio into PT. Sometimes too much editing can lead to a lack of commitment as far as printing audio, but the same can be said for plug-in choices on a DAW. At times I have to force myself just to leave it alone. A friend of mine prints to audio right away and mixes as he goes along, copies audio to repeat verses, etc. Been wanting to try this method as well, it does have its advantages, but I go back and edit so much it's part of how I write. For writing, I guess I've just gotten used to my MIDI set-up and mixer over the years.

Originally Posted by Futureman84

Wow, I didn't see anyone mention the first ever MIDI synth to be mulitimbral... (the first synth to ever use midi mode 4)

Sequential Circuits SixTrak!

Six part multitimbral, one output.
(can be easily modified for 6 outs)

Also, while not analogue, the CZ series can also be multitimbral.

The CZ gets the unmentionable award!

Dang, I used to have a six track that I bought at a pawn shop back in the day for $250. I ended up returning it because there was no way to get it out of OMNI mode to use in my MIDI set-up. My Prophet 600 needed a chip upgrade I bought from Wine Country to get it working on separate MIDI channels. Presumably, the six track multi-timbral function is used best as a standalone?



On a side note I forgot to mention my first synth in 1989 a Kawai K1-II, which sported 8 part multi-timbral capabilities with a stereo out. Other synths out at the time were the Ensoniq SQ-80, Korg M1, Yamaha DX-11 and I remember seeing a Roland D-50 still on the shelves.

[clusterchord]

i used to take advantage of multitimbrality to the max, with all capability my few synths had, in early 90s.. two sounds from JX10, one from DX7, aprox 8 parts from Proteus1+2, 5 parts from Roland R-8 (one kit and 4 pitched perc), and my favorite: JD990, with typically had btwn 4 and 8 parts.

one important detail to consider, when you mention analogs and multitimbrality, is digitals could have many parts usable even if their total polyphony wasn't as big as todays norms, because of dynamic voice allocation, even 24 poly on JD990 was used very efficiently.

analogs don't have this option due to limitations of having actual sound generating circuits instead of just DSP running code. its inherent to analog designs. so even tho A6 can do as much as 16 mono sounds, if you want some poly action as well as mono, and perhaps an analog kick or snare... all working simultaneously, you have to plan carefully and assign the number of HW voices or each part.


i tried this on A6 for experiment. it works nice, and esp mono sounds are more powerful coming out of their individual outputs. (i did one 8poly pad, two mono basses, two leads, and 4 for analog drums..)



today, i don't use multitimbrality at all. for few reasons. first, music has changed. and more often than not i track my HW synths, one by one, as i go along (early comitting to choices), and then if i do make a large MIDI arrangement with everything going "live", its one hw synth per part. usually complemented by several soundlib type VSTis. if i need more from, for example, JD990 or A6, i just print the line to audio, and re-use em.