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VintageSynth banned me...did I deserve it?
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dhollmusik
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#1
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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VintageSynth banned me...did I deserve it?

I like VintageSynth, and registered there recently. Amazingly enough, I've just been banned without a single warning, without any point/infraction system.

This is the first time I've ever been banned anywhere on the internet.

I started a very specific thread, and got a little pi$$ed off at some of the replies, so I replied back probably a little confrontationally, probably I came across as a Dikk, I don't know...but nothing I said was delete-worthy, so it's all still present:


Vintage Synth Explorer • View topic - Which Synth matches this description?


Did I deserve to get banned without even a warning?


@our mods, if you think this is better off in the chatty subforum then of course move it there, I only posted it here first as a) VintageSynth is relevant to Electronic Music, and b) this is where I hang out anyway.

@everyone, feel free to call me a dikk and say I 100% deserved it...don't hold back! I'm just not sure yet it was entirely my fault, I think a warning might have been better in order.


Further: I might also add my contributions on other people's threads were completely fine and 100% civil & friendly. Only this thread had 'confrontational' language.

Last edited by dhollmusik; 10th July 2011 at 07:20 PM.. Reason: Further
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Had a quick look through that thread. Seems like you were asking reasonable questions and getting stupid answers, you got frustraited and the trigger happy mods got annoyed.

Fwiw, in my mod days, I wouldn't have acted so heavy handed.

I wouldn't get too upset. People get banned all the time over there for the slightest thing, so it would seem.
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Well, I do think you got unnecessarily testy in that thread, but still seems far from ban-worthy to me. I generally like the vibe at VSE, but the mods there can be a little over-the-top (to put it mildly)...
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Some of the mods there are power hungry unprofessional ****** bags ...
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
Had a quick look through that thread. Seems like you were asking reasonable questions and getting stupid answers, you got frustraited and the trigger happy mods got annoyed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CfNorENa View Post
Well, I do think you got unnecessarily testy in that thread, but still seems far from ban-worthy to me.
Thanks guys...it's encouraging to know I wasn't completely out of order.

I agree I got a little testy and annoyed...but it was crazy-harsh to ban me without warning, especially considering my contributions to other people's threads was very positive and helpful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
I wouldn't get too upset.
Aye...not upset, more bemused. In all my 1000+ Gearslutz posts one time I was a little cheeky (not nasty, just cheeky) and also off-topic so I got a friendly informal warning via PN, no infractions. It was fine and we ended up chatting for a bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
People get banned all the time over there for the slightest thing, so it would seem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CfNorENa View Post
I generally like the vibe at VSE, but the mods there can be a little over-the-top (to put it mildly)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by matia View Post
Some of the mods there are power hungry unprofessional ****** bags ...
Aaah...so my case is not unusual then. That's a shame. I like their subforums, especially the synth-shootout is a good idea.

I would have accepted a warning, and just ignored all off-topic replies, I pretty much evolved to that anyway. The mod quoted the "condescension & uselessness gene pool" bit in the final post of that thread (which doesn't appear locked actually), so I guess this was when I stepped over the line. But then again, I got called a "jerk" and told to get a cheap kids' keyboard instead...which in anyone's book is a useless and condescending comment to make on a very specific thread about analogue polys....so what the hey.
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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didnt read all posts but I assume its been a cultural thing again

I guess the problem started when you started to talk about "500 of your nation's credits"

there are a lot of people who get mad when they read ort hear things like that, when you hint on the "Wesen des Geldes"

so not the fact that USD and Euro are approx. the same value, but the credit part, the hint on the inherent fraud of our monetary systems

what you tell them between the lines is this:
"hey, money's fraud, you've heard about that before but you dont get why and all your parents and teachers and banksters have lyed to you, always,
and you deluded little dupe will never be able to change anything about this and you'll be fooled and duped forever and ever"


of course it didnt help the matter when you insisted that people got what you were asking
and that there is no need to be picky about single words

this was just the hook they used to hang you, not the reason, I am sure, even if they themselves are probably not aware of this

I am positive that at least 3 persons involved are us citizens by the way, just by the way they were acting
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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You basically told them they were shitty and their forum sucked. True or not, it does kinda make you a dick to think that would turn out better for you than it has for anyone else. Arguing with mods (no matter how wrong they are) never has a positive outcome.

Rather than tell them what not to do or that a post is useless(germans are the only people that would take this well ) what works alright is playing dumb and asking them to explain further. Then ignore their responses and laugh that they are the ones expending brain power on trivial doo-doo.
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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the mods there are pretty heavy handed - I dont really go there much now. It got much more arsey a while back...someone threatened to ban me for something really pathetic.

there were some 'clever-clogs' responses to your question from the regulars which I admit are annoying...

on the other hand - you were being quite demanding and a little intense...

did you deserve it? probably not - but I think you could chill out a bit as well as the mods there...I do rather feel that VSE is a level up in the 'anorak' stages of forum nerdiness from GS...and the more someone is an anorak about something - the more pedantic, nerdy and annoying they can be...none of which are qualities I personally value too much...
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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btw I got a ban -my first ban ever- here for about a month

did I deserve it ? maybe
at any rate I did deserve it more than you did


Quote:
Originally Posted by foodeater View Post
Rather than tell them what not to do or that a post is useless(germans are the only people that would take this well ) what works alright is playing dumb and asking them to explain further.
dont get it - what you mean by Germans take that well - are you trying to insult dholl ?
care to explain ?
#10
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Why do people always bring other forum bullshit here?
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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your thread looks kind of familiar. what I learned from my own recent experiences on here is that things can often get taken out of context, since there is only printed word and nothing else to help us interpret the meaning of those words.

That leads to (often) innocent remarks making the wrong impression, causing the person reading them to lash out.

then, the person being lashed out at, usually retaliates.

you were quite an active participant in the experience I am referring to, so you know how this movie ends.

I only read the first page; based on that, I would not have banned you. However, you did come across as someone almost looking for an argument. I say this because you did not let any apparent slight pass; you addressed all of them. there is no need for that, as it contributes nothing to the discussion.

since the controversy of my own thread, I have learned to ignore anything unhelpful or mean-spirited and focus only on whatever constructive things a person says. if it is simply a flame post, I immediately add them to my "ignore user" list.

instead of worrying about whether you were "completely" at fault; strive to be free of controversy in the first place. you certainly have a share of responsibility for the increasingly hostile nature of the thread.
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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. . .

Last edited by memristor; 10th July 2011 at 08:47 PM.. Reason: yes
#13
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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I am a member there also. Some of those moderators are dikcheads. They would rather hurt then help.
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
there are a lot of people who get mad when they read ort hear things like that, when you hint on the "Wesen des Geldes".

I am positive that at least 3 persons involved are us citizens by the way, just by the way they were acting
This is an interesting theory...not sure I agree but it had me stroking my beard...


Quote:
Originally Posted by foodeater View Post
Rather than tell them what not to do or that a post is useless(germans are the only people that would take this well ) what works alright is playing dumb and asking them to explain further. Then ignore their responses and laugh that they are the ones expending brain power on trivial doo-doo.
This is very good advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
there were some 'clever-clogs' responses to your question from the regulars which I admit are annoying...

on the other hand - you were being quite demanding and a little intense...
Yeah...I can agree with that. Tho' I wouldn't call their responses "clever-clogs", they were actually quite dumb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
dont get it - what you mean by Germans take that well - are you trying to insult dholl ?
care to explain ?
I took it that foodeater meant German people are more direct in communicating. As this is part of the culture it means one can accept the slight (whether justified or not) and continue the debate.

As a stereotype it's not accurate anyway, it's not possible to stereotype the Germans just as it's not possible to stereotype the Americans: both countries are too huge and varied, with many different cultures within one race of peoples. It's also the same with Britain and Spain...simply too varied to appoint one personality trait to.

Anyway, I'm certainly not offended or insulted. Only when people start mentioning the war...that's when I go off on one (yes, I'm aware of that Basil Fawlty scene).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian! View Post
Why do people always bring other forum bullshit here?
Because we're a community, and members of a community talk with each other.

And it's hardly "always"...I don't think I've ever seen another such thread, actually.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof View Post
However, you did come across as someone almost looking for an argument. I say this because you did not let any apparent slight pass; you addressed all of them. there is no need for that, as it contributes nothing to the discussion.
This is a good point, fooloof. I should have ignored them from the off.

By the way, when I wrote I have only ever received one warning from Gearslutz it was because of this:

Seriously Considering a MiniMoog Model D

haha! It's funny to look back on it now. We were both pretty harmless, to be fair.

I like to reset my relationships with forum members in the next thread, so I'm very happy to see you're still around and active. And your advice is spot-on...I will try and follow it.
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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what I mean by 'clever clogs' - is when people respond to something (typically a small confusion/error) in an unnecessarily pedantic way...for example - when you said DCO and also mentioned Waldorf Microwave...
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ton splash View Post
I am a member there also. Some of those moderators are dikcheads. They would rather hurt then help.
Unfortunately, this seems to be true. In order of appearance:

Me: "An acceptable exception would be DCO's in place of VCO's"

Me: "after using many knobless DCO synths (Microwave, Wavestation, Matrix, DW-8000, JX-3P, DX7) I've decided to stop messing about with them."

Other forum member: "Ah yes, those well known DCO synths, Microwave, Wavestation, DW-8000 & DX7"

Me: "Aaaaah...ok...fair enough. I'm basically referring to all the knobless wonders I've tried using."

Mod: "So... you don't know what DCOs are but you're against them?"


The thing is, after I replied to this the mod was then quite useful in his responses, it was only when someone else decided to get all negative that the mod changed his colours again. It's a textbook example of the classic herd-mentality we know from school.


As Spock would say...fascinating.
#17
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhollmusik View Post
I took it that foodeater meant German people are more direct in communicating.
I perfectly got that, actually I was trying to make a lame joke, his advise was "to play dumb and ask to explain" so thats what I did ... with a twist, cause the other stereotype ( which I have observed myself ) is that Germans dont get irony at all and take it all personal and serious

I think both stereotypes are true to some extend, some of the reactions on VSE reminded me on stubborn Germans on other groups

so "cultural differences" may exists among the same culture

anyway - you've got banned for a month, another experience you dont want to miss

everybody should be banned once in while
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#18
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
what I mean by 'clever clogs' - is when people respond to something (typically a small confusion/error) in an unnecessarily pedantic way...for example - when you said DCO and also mentioned Waldorf Microwave...
Like I posted above...the forum member who called me out on my semantic error had a point...such a post is fine. The problem comment came from the mod later as it disregarded everything and only seeked to belittle me (see also above).
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
anyway - you've got banned for a month, another experience you dont want to miss

everybody should be banned once in while
haha! yes...there's a running joke among the commenters on The Guardian that the only way to know you're doing it right is if you've been in pre-mod at least once. Pre-mod is when your post is read by a moderator before it is posted live.

I'm still not doing it right, tho'...I should clearly try harder
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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well you did become confrontational and call peoples' genuine reply as "useless", sometimes it's just best to ignore those answers which are known to provoke a confrontation, such as "You don't know what a dco is?" or "maybe you need to learn to program" -/shrug. Just ignore them.

Did it deserve a ban? maybe, maybe not. I don't think it did, taking into account the context of the forum. I was a lead programmer during school for Invision Power Board software, and a mod for a 10k member forum. I was quick to boot people just to avoid future conflicts.

Some of those mods see red flags about people and ban them without a thought, in order to protect their "community"

On another note, this topic does not pertain to electronic music production
Good luck mate on your search for a poly.
#21
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CfNorENa View Post
Well, I do think you got unnecessarily testy in that thread, but still seems far from ban-worthy to me. I generally like the vibe at VSE, but the mods there can be a little over-the-top (to put it mildly)...
Was he asking for help with his Poly 6 and the others told him to take it to a tech?
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foodeater View Post
You basically told them they were shitty and their forum sucked. True or not, it does kinda make you a dick to think that would turn out better for you than it has for anyone else. Arguing with mods (no matter how wrong they are) never has a positive outcome.

Rather than tell them what not to do or that a post is useless(germans are the only people that would take this well ) what works alright is playing dumb and asking them to explain further. Then ignore their responses and laugh that they are the ones expending brain power on trivial doo-doo.
+1 LOL!

Where is Don Solaris? I want to give him a piece of my mind!

I actually like this forum because Don is pretty cool and knowledgable.
#23
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhollmusik View Post
Aaah...so my case is not unusual then.
not at all. i wouldn't try to litigate it on another forum though. we have the luxury of picking and choosing what forums to post on.
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nev View Post
Good luck mate on your search for a poly.
Thanks...in that VS thread I was kind of thinking out loud and eventually decided to ditch the idea of a rack/desktop and get the Prophet-600 (which was already very much in the forefront of my GAS-thinking, we had a thread here about it...seems like a great synth).

Still, the mysterious Akai VX600 is very intriguing...Jexus demonstrated how chunky it sounds very effectively:

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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by criminallysmooth View Post
not at all. i wouldn't try to litigate it on another forum though. we have the luxury of picking and choosing what forums to post on.
Yeah...don't wanna spam the forum with my little drama, I just wanted a little outside opinion...I guess a mod can now move it to the chat-subforum.
#26
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Bleh, shallowwaters again. VSE is best served read-only.
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhollmusik View Post



This is a good point, fooloof. I should have ignored them from the off.

By the way, when I wrote I have only ever received one warning from Gearslutz it was because of this:

Seriously Considering a MiniMoog Model D

haha! It's funny to look back on it now. We were both pretty harmless, to be fair.

I like to reset my relationships with forum members in the next thread, so I'm very happy to see you're still around and active. And your advice is spot-on...I will try and follow it.
ha ha. I had a feeling is from that thread. Cheers! bygones are bygones. I'll be seeing you around on the threads. just made a deal for a little mono synth; it will be here next week. I'm almost afraid to post it in the "July Gear" thread. Almost...
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10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof View Post
ha ha. I had a feeling is from that thread. Cheers! bygones are bygones. I'll be seeing you around on the threads. just made a deal for a little mono synth; it will be here next week. I'm almost afraid to post it in the "July Gear" thread. Almost...
Good for you! What did you get? Funnily enough I also got one this weekend as I don't have a single monosynth in my setup...won't arrive 'til a week or so...got this one:

#29
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by criminallysmooth View Post
not at all. i wouldn't try to litigate it on another forum though.
Despite this is a mature discussion, discussion about bans on other fora, and activities of moderation there, is a potential cause of a disaster: A flame war, or worse, forum war could easily ensue. tutt Moving it to another part won't solve that.
I'll leave it open for now but please be advised this thread is under close scrutiny and I may have to lock it if SHTF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by criminallysmooth View Post
we have the luxury of picking and choosing what forums to post on.
And so it should be. It's the people posting that give a forum life, and since we're not robots, everyone can pull some dumb shit at times. (present company included)

Cheers!
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#30
10th July 2011
Old 10th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
Despite this is a mature discussion, discussion about bans on other fora, and activities of moderation there, is a potential cause of a disaster: A flame war, or worse, forum war could easily ensue. tutt Moving it to another part won't solve that.
I'll leave it open for now but please be advised this thread is under close scrutiny and I may have to lock it if SHTF.
You might as well lock it now, Reptil. I think everything has been covered already
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