Axiom pro 61 - any thoughts?

[johndavid]

I'm planning on buying an axiom pro 61 in the near future and just wanted to get some feedback from the forum first. I don't have a way to test this out at a music store, but have read lots online already . Mostly wondering:

1. if the "sticky keys" is people just not understanding the difference between semi-weighted and synth-action keyboards
2. Any users pros and/or cons
3. If there's another midi controller you'd recommend, with similar price/features, and why?

DAW - PT8,
VI's mostly Hybrid, SuperiorDrummer, and Goliath

TIA

[LiveFromKyoto]

Originally Posted by johndavid

if the "sticky keys" is people just not understanding the difference between semi-weighted and synth-action keyboards

Nope. They definitely can be sticky. Using them a bit will loosen them up, but the stick will come back. It's not that dramatic, but it can mess you up if you're playing a velocity sensitive sound. the good news is that M-Audio will replace your keyboard if you get one with the sticky keys problem.

Any users pros and/or cons

It's actually pretty good other than the sticky keys issue. It's not the highest build quality in the universe, but it does what it needs to do and integrates well with DAWs. It has a lot of routing and environment setup capabilities. The pad triggers are a nice addition.

The only real con is how you feel about semi-weighted keys. A lot of people don't like them (I do). Also, check to be sure it integrates with PT8 out of the box.

If there's another midi controller you'd recommend, with similar price/features, and why?

The two main competitors are the Akai MPK & the Novation SL. Opinions vary widely on these as well, search the forum for past in-dept discussions.

[fooloof]

I can tell you it doesn't integrate out the box with software, even though it's advertised that way (unless it was done in a newer update). I've had mine for over a year. No sticky keys problem. I don't use it much, though. that's going to change. gonna start using more software that I've already bought.

[Itsmorning]

I have the v3 25 key. The keys, pitch bend, and mod control are all great. What blows are the knobs and the pads. The knobs are just horrible to control anything ITB. For some reason they over correct and unde correct and it just makes a huge mess where you'll have to turn 1080 just to go 180 on ur virtual instrument. I don't even use the pads unless I'm auditioning sounds. They are superstiff and respong incorrectly to velocity changes. I know it's an unfair comparison as there is a price difference but I keep going back to my akai pads instead of the axiom. Axiom pads don't feel any better than a nanopad.

[johndavid]

Thanks for the replies.

I'd read that the Akai is a bit weird in terms of integrating with other DAWS aside from Abelton Live, and that the keys of the Nocturne can be VERY stiff. Anyone have any experience/thoughts using one of the above controllers with PT?

[Schwarzwald]

I've tried the 49 key version of the Axiom pro and I own the 25 key version of the MPK series. I'd recommend the MPK. Better pads, better knobs. ESPECIALLY the 61 key version. Just many more features. Check it out on the MPK website.

MPK61 USB/MIDI KEYBOARD CONTROLLER

[sftd]

Originally Posted by Schwarzwald

I've tried the 49 key version of the Axiom pro and I own the 25 key version of the MPK series. I'd recommend the MPK. Better pads, better knobs. ESPECIALLY the 61 key version. Just many more features. Check it out on the MPK website.

MPK61 USB/MIDI KEYBOARD CONTROLLER

+1

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[msl]

I have the 25 key version, I think its very well built compared to others I've use (novation). Agreed on the pads being stiff, rarely use them for that reason.


.

[Itsmorning]

Originally Posted by johndavid

Thanks for the replies.

I'd read that the Akai is a bit weird in terms of integrating with other DAWS aside from Abelton Live, and that the keys of the Nocturne can be VERY stiff. Anyone have any experience/thoughts using one of the above controllers with PT?

I don't have PT. But I do use akai pads with ableton, reason, and cubase. All work fine. It's just a midi signal so I don't think there should be issues with PT as long as it has midi. Maybe you mean more along the lines of fully intergrating and midi mapping all controls virtually without having to manually map things like knobs and what not but I don't think there are alot of controllers like that.

[johndavid]

For users of the AKAI, does it have non-standard size keys (i.e.-smaller than a typical keyboard)? I'd read that recently, and I know for me as a player, I'd have a time trying to adjust to smaller keys. Also, and I know that this is HIGHLY subjective, but here goes . . . what do you think of the feel of the keys on the AKAI? Easy to press down? Little or lots of resistance releasing a key(s)? Overall Responsiveness?

I know that the knobs on the Axiom are odd in that you have to turn them a Lot! 1:04-1:40 It's kind-of humorous actually. I'm not using this live so I think I could learn to deal with it . . .

In terms of pads on one controller vs. another, I'll be using a Korg PK for all serious pad work so the pads aren't a deal maker or breaker for me. They'd mostly be used to audition sounds or play notes/hits.

[Scoox]

Originally Posted by Itsmorning

I have the v3 25 key. The keys, pitch bend, and mod control are all great. What blows are the knobs and the pads. The knobs are just horrible to control anything ITB. For some reason they over correct and unde correct and it just makes a huge mess where you'll have to turn 1080 just to go 180 on ur virtual instrument. I don't even use the pads unless I'm auditioning sounds. They are superstiff and respong incorrectly to velocity changes. I know it's an unfair comparison as there is a price difference but I keep going back to my akai pads instead of the axiom. Axiom pads don't feel any better than a nanopad.

Hi, what is the v3? Did you mean a) Axiom 25 Advanced (new black version) or b) Axiom 25 Pro (white version)?

I am considering an Axiom 61 Advanced... so your input would be most valuable.

[Psynthman]

I've had one for about a year and a half, almost 2 years now probably. It's been played daily since then, and I haven't had a single issue. No idea what the " Sticky keys " is about, my keys never stick and they're very comfortable to play on. Like stated above, the pads are kinda stuff, but I almost never use em anyways so it doesn't bother me. The only thing I can say negatively about it, is that the encoders feel kind of cheap. They work great, just don't feel as high quality as they should for the price you pay. Everything else is great though. I particularly like the pitch bend wheel, it's very firm, so you can do all kinds of interesting bends with it you can't on other midi controllers without lots of effort.

[Scoox]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

I've had one for about a year and a half, almost 2 years now probably. It's been played daily since then, and I haven't had a single issue. No idea what the " Sticky keys " is about, my keys never stick and they're very comfortable to play on. Like stated above, the pads are kinda stuff, but I almost never use em anyways so it doesn't bother me. The only thing I can say negatively about it, is that the encoders feel kind of cheap. They work great, just don't feel as high quality as they should for the price you pay. Everything else is great though. I particularly like the pitch bend wheel, it's very firm, so you can do all kinds of interesting bends with it you can't on other midi controllers without lots of effort.

Which keyboard do you have, the white one?

Also, do you ever use the knobs at all? If not, why? (on my old black Axiom I had too turn them through 2 or 3 complete turns to achieve one full turn in my VST plugin, which was a PITA, so I never use them...)

[Psynthman]

Originally Posted by Scoox

Which keyboard do you have, the white one?

Also, do you ever use the knobs at all? If not, why? (on my old black Axiom I had too turn them through 2 or 3 complete turns to achieve one full turn in my VST plugin, which was a PITA, so I never use them...)

Yeah, Axiom pro 61 is white. I use the knobs when programming VSTs but not for my hardware synth. Knobs work fine for me, never had that issue.

[Scoox]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

Yeah, Axiom pro 61 is white. I use the knobs when programming VSTs but not for my hardware synth. Knobs work fine for me, never had that issue.

That sounds good! So basically what you are saying is that if you turn the knob through 1/360th of a full turn in the Axiom Pro, the associated control in the software turns/moves through 1/360th of its full range, right?

Thanks

[Psynthman]

Originally Posted by Scoox

That sounds good! So basically what you are saying is that if you turn the knob through 1/360th of a full turn in the Axiom Pro, the associated control in the software turns/moves through 1/360th of its full range, right?

Thanks

Maybe not 100% precise, but very, very close. I mean, not enough so that it's been an issue for me, ya know? If you're going to be using it for live play, you may want to get used to how the knobs function first, but it's not horribly disproportionate or anything like that. In the studio it's pretty great. The sliders are really awesome and firm as well. Overall, the keyboard feels pretty nice, I'd definitely recommend it. I do think however, it may be *slightly* overpriced.

[Scoox]

Thanks, it looks like maybe the knobs issue has been addressed. Hopefully the new Axiom Advanced (black) works like the Axiom Pro, I hate having a piece of kit with a bunch of functions that don't work.

I think yeah it is overpriced for my needs at least, as I wouldn't be using HyperControl and all the other "cool" features which are the reason why the price is high. I would not be using HyperControl at all because I know I would forget how things are mapped. I think it is quicker to just tweak things directly in the VST than by looking at a tiny LCD. The only time I use hardware controllers is when I want to record automation played live, which is hardly ever. When tweaking a VST to get the right sound I think it makes more sense to use the mouse than to spend time dicking around with mappings. Plus most DAWs (e.g. Reaper, FL Studio, Live, Presonus S1, Logic, etc) already have an easily accessible MIDI learn function that allows you to quickly assign a parameter to a hardware controller with a couple of clicks. Other DAWs that are much more professional, such as Cubase, don't have a MIDI learn function that can be accessed with a couple of clicks, so maybe HyperControl was designed with such DAWs in mind.

[Itsmorning]

I have the black pro version so maybe te knobs aren't an issue for the advanced version. Btw how much is it?

Just asking cuz if I were to purchase again I would maybe get a synthesizer of some sort instead of just the controller as it would have better build and stock sounds. Not that I hate my pro or anything. To me the keys feel great which is why I purchased it. I talked about akai earlier and one ofthe reasons I love the drum machine is the stock one shots I can't get on any vsts. Just throwing it out there.

[LiveFromKyoto]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

I've had one for about a year and a half, almost 2 years now probably. It's been played daily since then, and I haven't had a single issue. No idea what the " Sticky keys " is about, my keys never stick and they're very comfortable to play on.

Sticky keys is well known issue with Axioms that occurs on a number of boards that M-Audio claims is "within industry standards." They will replace it if you get one and it's under warranty though.

[Scoox]

The sticky keys problem was more of a quirk, it never really bothered me, and presumably it could even be fixed at home with simple tools and a bit of sticky tape placed over the rubber cushioning that caused the stickiness. The main issue was the pads and knobs sucking (sorry).

What really bothers me is the fact that M-Audio never fixed the knobs and the pads, both of which could be fixed with a firmware update. That's right. What was wrong with those knobs was the acceleration curves. All they had to do was change a number in the firmware code. Second, the pads: all they had to do was code in hysteresis or some sort of de-bouncing mechanism to avoid double-triggering notes, not hard at all, even the cheapest computer keyboard has switch de-bounce in its firmware. But they didn't fix it, instead they were busy reinventing the wheel with the Pro and the Advanced. And now there are thousands of original Axioms polluting our planet, which I think is a disgrace.

So if M-Audio are reading this, my advice is: first fix the real issues and then add the bells and whistles.

Peace!

[DJ 1UP]

Originally Posted by Scoox

The sticky keys problem was more of a quirk, it never really bothered me, I imagine it can be even fixed at home with a bit of sticky tape placed over the rubber cushioning that causes the stickiness. The main issues were the pads and knobs sucking (sorry).

I just got the Axiom 25 and using the knobs is a PITA... if anyone knows a fix for this please let me know otherwise I might think about sending this one back for the White version.

[Adeseye]

I would save on a workstation with sounds in it or a synth rather then just getting a midi keyboard.

[Scoox]

Originally Posted by DJ 1UP

I just got the Axiom 25 and using the knobs is a PITA... if anyone knows a fix for this please let me know otherwise I might think about sending this one back for the White version.

Is it the old original Axiom 25 or the new Axiom 25 Advanced (both are black)? If it is the old one, I am afraid there is no fix other than to either return it or sell it on eBay at a loss (which is what I did). If you have the new black Axiom, please me know, it may be possible to fix it by selecting a different acceleration curve for the rotary encoders.

I personally would advice against buying the white one coz it is more likely to have DAW compatibility issues (some DAWs may not be supported so do check that first). If you do run into problems which may be resolved with a firmware update, don't hold your breath, the original Axiom problems could have been fixed but were never fixed or even acknowledged at the very least. So basically, when buying M-Audio, either buy something that is known to work (e.g. Oxygen 49 v2, I own it, everything works perfectly) or don't buy at all.

Also download and read the user manuals first. For instance, some of M-Audio's MIDI keyboards don't have selectable velocity curves which most of us take for granted. I didn't find out until I noticed the manual didn't say anything about changing the velocity response of the keys...

[sfernald]

I owned the axiom pro 25 and axiom pro 61. I sold them off and now use a motif xf as my midi keyboard.

Issues I had with them:

1) sticky keys. You can work around it though. Maybe sloppy keys is a better way to describe it.
2) build quality issues, although built better than novation crap
3) kind of a pita to configure with that lcd and menu system
4) almost forgot, worst support ever. Your grandchildren will be dead before they update the firmware.

It is ok. I used it for a while. But honestly the keyboard on the motif is about a 100x better.

[DJ 1UP]

Yeah I got the new 2nd gen black one, the acceleration curve does nothing. If I spin it really fast then it jolts up or down

[Scoox]

Originally Posted by DJ 1UP

Yeah I got the new 2nd gen black one, the acceleration curve does nothing. If I spin it really fast then it jolts up or down

OK so here are my conclusions regarding the Axiom mkII MIDI controller keyboard, based on other user comments and my own impressions:

• The knobs still suck (acceleration and velocity just wrong), although at least they are not notched, which they were in the original Axiom
• The pads probably still suck (missing notes and double triggering)
• Faders too low-profile, unlike M-Audio Oxygen faders, so they will be harder to grip and move precisely.
• The sticky keys issue has been fixed
• The build quality is so-so (at least considering the high price tag). The original Axiom also had some build issues, e.g. there were some parts that were warped.
• Support is poor (problems not acknowledged and firmware updates hardly ever released)

Having owned the original black Axiom (mk1 for argument's sake), it looks like most major problems have not been fixed, therefore I won't be buying an Axiom 61 mk2 which is what I had in mind.

I currently own the Oxygen 8v2 and I love everything about it, so I think I will be buying either the old Oxygen 61 or the new Oxygen 61 3rd gen (after comparing the two).

Incidentally, I just talked to a friend who knows someone who sold their Axiom 3rd gen because they were not happy with it, didn't say why exactly. I am just not going to take any more chances with Axioms...

[Scoox]

Originally Posted by sfernald

...the keyboard on the motif is about a 100x better.

Obviously! The Motif is a much more expensive piece of kit, I wouuld expect it to be of top quality. I don't think people would be willing to spend hundreds of pounds on a Motif if the build quality were poor.

What is clear in my mind is that there is a gap in the market for quality MIDI controller keyboards that work as advertised, with every key, knob, fader and pad working as expected. At the moment the market is flooded with toys:

• If the pads are not going to work reliably, do us all a favour and don't bother with them, it just makes our tools look unprofessional, spend the money elsewhere.
• If the knobs are not going to be usable, please, drop them.

A lot of bells and whistles but no noise. I wonder if manufacturers actually use their own products.

[ScratchNSurf]

I own a axiom 49 gen 2 (sorta similar) and what I can say is the pads are junk and I can't figure out how to remap any controls, so i cant assign pads to new notes.


Personally wish I just bought a keys only midi controller and a maschine or something

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