why so much negativity on production courses?

[PRODIJ]

I mean you pay a techer to teach you how to play an instrument.. thing you can learn more easily compared to producing music given it 10x easier to find info videos on.. something like guitar give instant satisfaction compared to the first time you open logic...

so why not pay a teacher that simply shortens the learning curve.. since getting on in proper level to produce electronica happens after reading 100000 posts and watched 5000 youtube videos...

[GuruInSpace]

Well if you want to spend a good amount of money on a course instead of investing it on your own gear, then have to pay off a student loan and then never find a paying job in this field its a great choice.

[hoffy]

Dont let any random jaded dickhead on the internet tell you what to do with your money.

it's your choice, and only you know what is best for you.

if completing a course is going to fasttrack your development, at what you consider a reasonable cost, what the **** is stopping you?

the only advice i will give you is that online courses (macpro, groove3...) a lot of those things only show you one way to do something. do a course, but experimentation is still the key.

[asbak]

Originally Posted by GuruInSpace

Well if you want to spend a good amount of money on a course instead of investing it on your own gear, then have to pay off a student loan and then never find a paying job in this field its a great choice.

Right on.

The best way to become a successful musician or producer, composer, whatever is to work at it yourself. Yes, lessons help particularly where learning to play an instrument is concerned but for learning how to use gear & equipment much of the information is already available at zer0 cost, in user manuals etc.

"Production Courses" will not teach you anything you can't already find in good books on the topic, forums, from friends + co-workers and playing with your own gear. It's a great way to blow mommy and daddy's money.

It's not a mealticket to formal employment in the way that studying to become an engineer, accountant, doctor, learning a trade etc is.

Anyway... don't listen to "jaded random Internet dickheads". Spend the money.

[golden beers]

it depends on the course, the tutor and you.

the course:
obviously the subject has to be right, unfortunately allot of courses out there are purely academic in nature, and what i mean by that is; they're built by departments within that academic world, with their own agenda driven in no small part by marketing: who know sweet FA about music. so what you end up with is a course about how to make bad pop music or a course about how to produce bands or something like that. invariably there's also allot of spare bullshit to complete like lame pop history modules or pointless dissertations to write and other hoops to jump through before you get your bit of paper.

My friend was head of music tec at the royal college of music and for fun one evening at his house he pulled out his mid term exam for me to have a go at. i scored 90% on it without even thinking and with no revision, he said i would've been 2nd in the class with that mark, which puts things into perspective. the test was uber-simple yet this was a degree course at the royal academy of music.

so yea the course is super important, you need something specific that will teach you a specific skill. none of this music media studies bull.

The tutor:
you should meet the tutor before you sign up and ask him some questions. if he doesn't answer the questions to your satisfaction, walk. good questions would be of a technical nature: what SPL should I mix at? what is FM synthsis? what is the advantage of working at a higher sample rate? why do some bass notes sound louder in my studio than others? what's the hot key for copying elements n-times in cubase?

questions like that.

you:
you have to make the best of it and be motivated. if you sign on to a course youre not sure about and the lessons drag because the tutor is going slow for the dumbass, it's up to you to get attention and get in there to use the equipment as often as you can.

i've had pleanty of 'producers' in my studio who tell me they've done this course and that course and they don't know shit.

but there will be some good courses. i've found that old skool music engineering courses will have more to offer than the sit in fount of logic, point + click courses.

[AJ Reynolds]

it depends what kind of a course you do. will it be training or education?

training will teach you how to use logic, how to make a dubstep wobble, where to put microphones etc...

education will teach you how to use logic to help you pass the assignments you will be do, the theory of synthesis so you can make educated choices to make any sound you want, why we place microphones where we do etc...

[zosthegoatherd]

I really like the idea of getting an EE degree and taking a minor like this -Audio Engineering
A lot of the programs I have looked at seem like they are more crash courses in Pro-Tools, and I really don't see the point.

[Apprentice]

I don't know all the schools / programs out there, so I can only speak for myself.

I finished the Audio Technology program offered by SAE Los Angeles a few years ago. Yes, it was a lot of money and time. But I don't regret it.

And no, I'm not super rich; I had to loan out a lot of money. However, it's all in matter of perspective, IMO. I am passionate about music and audio industry, and I considered going to school as an "investment" for me.

The basics covered from the school (music theory, acoustics, DAW, MIDI, mixing, tracking, post production, etc.) helped me form a strong foundation of understanding a lot about music production / recording. Have I "mastered" anything? NO. You cannot possibly do much in 9 months. All you get is the basic vocabulary about the business. Also, I had an internship in a local studio in LA for a while, which the school introduced. Because of personal reasons I am not in pursuit of becoming a full time engineer / producer, but again, I do NOT regret the money and time spent at school.

In the end, everyone's different. Some are really good at self-taught stuff, I'm more of a guy who needs the basics to expand on my own later. I currently rent out a room to set up a project studio, not too big, for my own tracking / mixing. Would I have been able to do this without the knowledge and skills I acquired from school? I'm not sure. For now, I just wanna worry about producing the best music I can that will be heard by many someday.

Good luck!

[Morechips]

Everyone bar one I know who has done a music tech course has ended up either not being employed doing music at the end of it or being employed using a fraction of the information in their job that was learned/gained from the course....i am talking courses that took 3 years and cost thousands! I have only known one person who was already an accomplished singer who took a production course and made great use of it.

I am completely self taught with information/skills topped up by talking with friends and in the last 3-4 years internet use. If you desire strongly enough to produce/make music you will learn the 'how to' of it regardless of your musical direction. Buy the kit you are most attracted to (after a period of research) and learn it, if you need advice ask here!

Don't forget the much complained about and often completely ignored 'manual'. Try not buying any magazines, papers etc (and turn the TV off) for a while and just leave your gear manuals hanging around on your coffee table for the first few weeks of owning your equipment...chill with your manuals, you will be amazed how much production information you can soak up like that inbetween making music and getting stuck in with your kit!

Best of luck and enjoy it!

[AJ Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Morechips

Everyone bar one I know who has done a music tech course has ended up either not being employed doing music at the end of it or being employed using a fraction of the information in their job that was learned/gained from the course....i am talking courses that took 3 years and cost thousands! I have only known one person who was already an accomplished singer who took a production course and made great use of it.

you can say that about any art related degree. it's even worse for photography and film students! i know a lot of design students (graphics/fashion) who have had a hard time finding work too.

[Morechips]

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

you can say that about any art related degree. it's even worse for photography and film students! i know a lot of design students (graphics/fashion) who have had a hard time finding work too.

If the OP is looking at courses that include composition modules or similiar 'artistic' modules then perhaps a course will be worth the time/money. But IMO if its just a production course he can probably develop the same level of skill in a shorter amount of time for less money by buying his own kit and getting stuck in.

[Whatupdoe?]

If you are interested in recording, your best bet would be to go to community college for an unrelated trade and take a good chunk of the student loan money and buy a small recording set up.

After two years you have a trade with which you can earn real money, and you will have the gear to learn on. Taking courses on recording is pointless, because it is a skilled trade that you have to learn though trial and error, or apprenticeship. You can't learn what you need to know in a classroom in 9 months. You need to be involved in music for years before you learn the most important lesson.

It is very easy to learn *how* to do things, it is really really hard to know *what* to do. Developing a style takes time and experience, you don't get either of those things in a classroom. Your best bet is to record and learn as you go.

[josh broome]

I went to SAE for audio engineering and I'm glad I did, sure I could of bought a bunch of gear instead, but I learned a great deal and met some great people, one of them later hired me to intern at a studio that he had become the manager of. Now I work at a T.V. station... However there are clearly more graduates than job openings. In reality it all boils down to motivation and dedication, and your own particular learning style.

As far as taking classes geared toward electronic music production I think people would be better off taking piano lessons and slowly piecing together a home studio. In my experience I've made my favorite patches by accident, just tweaking and fiddling around, Whenever I take an academic approach and say "I'm going to make such and such patch that sounds like.." it generally falls short of what I was envisioning. I would encourage anyone to pursue education, but I think people, especially on this forum, resent such schools because they're hyped up and lots of people graduate and become dissapointed with the realities of the music industry.

[hmmm]

Originally Posted by josh broome

I went to SAE for audio engineering and I'm glad I did, sure I could of bought a bunch of gear instead, but I learned a great deal and met some great people, one of them later hired me to intern at a studio that he had become the manager of. Now I work at a T.V. station... However there are clearly more graduates than job openings. In reality it all boils down to motivation and dedication, and your own particular learning style.

.

This is the benefit from a course like this. Industry networking. Sure you could learn everything you need to know on your own but you'd have to build your networks on your own too and this is harder for some.

It's like business schools. You don't need to go to a dedicated private business school to get qualified, all the course work could be learnt on the job or with private study at home.

But the recognition of the qualification is paramount and the opportunities available for capitalizing on the contacts you make are imperative. One of my best friends was a seriously talented musician before he did his degree but the door that opened to him when his lecturers recognised his talent and he got a job as a studio manager at a really well respected studio during the time he was still doing his degree.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by asbak

"Production Courses" will not teach you anything you can't already find in good books on the topic, forums, from friends + co-workers and playing with your own gear. It's a great way to blow mommy and daddy's money.

They should however teach you the material in a formal, structured fashion, which means that you won't spend 2 weeks on figuring out how a patchbay works (if you even get that far that you recognize it as something useful).

I think it's because electronic music was pretty DIY from the start (pick up old cheap equipment, go nuts) and that still persists (kids pick up DAWs, learn everything from peers, forums and Youtube).

[jackaleks]

two things for me really...

first is time and focus. a full time degree gives me the time to play around with DAWs, live recording techniques and synthesis and also a bit of focus to keep me on track seeing as i'm paying for it. trying to learn on the side of a full time 8-6 job was pointless, by the time i get home i'm way too tired to think about doing anything creative.

secondly, networking. my course isn't just made up from school leavers and it's good to meet the DJ's and producers who have also enrolled, not to mention hook ups and work placements from lecturers.

so yeah, not sure why everyone hates on them just because some graduates are clueless morons (really, anyone straight out of education without any experience working in a professional environment is going to be a bit of a dope).

at the end of the day a degree is just a very expensive wedge to stick in the door, it won't open it for you though...

[mildheadwound]

Originally Posted by Whatupdoe?

If you are interested in recording, your best bet would be to go to community college for an unrelated trade...

^ The best advice in the room.

The main advantage of schooling, as mentioned, is networking. While you are networking with people who are unemployed, all looking for the same job as you, these connections never hurt, in the industry, later on. Many of these private courses move too fast, (2 years to learn all of sound production!? Hahaha!), and involve too broad of range of subjects, to properly convey all the information.

Also, because you are learning on a bunch of equipment, instead of buying and experimenting, when the classes are done, you'll have a much better idea as to what you want to do, and which equipment is needed to do it.

But if you're not really a musician, lack musical theory, and are just considering being the next big producer, well i would definitely get those first two things in order, or skip the education, and stick to being a bedroom producer. But no disrespect there, after all, they are the the next big thing.

Besides, anyone with a scanner and photoshop, could get their 'diploma' a heck of a lot quicker then any course could.

[Mardi Gras]

courses are good to fast track your skills and knowledge.

Don't expect to find work from these courses afterwards.