Synths: Where to start?

[mdoelger]

Hi, I guess this is the right place to ask for advise.

In the past I've been working alot with live sounds, recording, mixing, punk rock metal, songwriters, ... you get the idea.

I feel it's time to expand. I really want to dig into learning to work with synth sounds.

Where do I start, given all those various synth types and sounds they can produce? I really wanna understand synth from the ground up, working my way through all the various stages of their history/development.

Are there some cheap/free vst's I can start my learning experience with?

What books/sites are worth digging through?

Any help is very appreciated...

Cheers!

[Yoozer]

Literally two threads above you - http://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...e-samples.html

Tell us more about what you have or what you are willing to buy. Synth1 is a free plugin, great for basics - otherwise a Nord Lead 2 or the rack version.

[mdoelger]

Already saw this, haha, too late. Anyhow...any additional advise is still very appreciated. If anyone likes to share his experiences, especially about the time when he began digging into this, feel free to tell.

Just tell us your stories.


My setup is a humble but very professional mixing room, with various types of hardware outboard prcoessors, good monitoring, but only an old dusty m-audio oxygen8, just to let you know where I'm coming from.

My approach always was and still is: understand first - make great sounds secound. So I believe the oxygen8 will please me for know.

Let me know what you think...

Cheers!

[findingtheSound]

For history about synths and more:
Vintage Synth Explorer

In synth history you need to know that there's something like 3 period (I'm not sure of all feel free to complete and correct me!):

-beginning of synth to 70's-beginning of 80's:
all analogue fat sounding gorgeous synths like Oberheim Obx/a/8, Yamaha CS80/50/70M, Arp Odyssey , Sequential circuit Prophets; Roland Jupiters, Eminent organ string machine solina, moog, waves ppg...
Old machine that now cost way too much and are hard to repair, but that's The sound, big fat warm...

- 80's- 90's; Digital synth Yamaha dx7 arrived: big and weigthy analogue synths died and everybody jump in the making of digital synth: this kind of sound is what made me hating synths for a long time: horrible dance.
And virtual analogic arrived later, with acces virus for exemple, often used in modern hiphop, D'n'B, trance... so more trancy side of synth sound if it make sense.

- today: plug synths: Like plugins for mixing, they seems to be better every new year, like the op-X, waldorf ppg,sample based string machine, arturia cs80/moog/prophet, gforce (all those to recreate old stuff, but not the real thing yet), and new synth (toward new eurodance/trancy/dubstep sound) like massive from NI, sylenth, Nexus, gladiator, and sooooo much more.

Add to all that Fx like distortion, bit crusher, chorus filter, s-t-u-t-t-e-r, layering technics...

My advise is go ear on youtube all the video you can and make you're opinion on what direction you want to go. For old stuff some youtube video of "retrosound" are quite nice.
Good luck in this new trip! I'm seeing GAS for you in near future! Cause the thing is: every synth have is own texture/force, and you need them all!!!

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by mdoelger

Already saw this, haha, too late. Anyhow...any additional advise is still very appreciated.

Check the Pop Sound Sources thread in my signature .

If anyone likes to share his experiences, especially about the time when he began digging into this, feel free to tell.

Sure. Started with a Juno-60 when I was 12, bought for me by my uncle - he was the one who gave me tapes of Jarre and Vangelis and what I had at home (an electronic transistor organ, not even with a drum machine) just couldn't make those sounds. So, I wanted something, and my meagre budget allowed the Juno-60 (this was around 1990).

My ignorance with synthesizers was actually an asset now that I look back on it; because I didn't know what any of the labels above the knobs really meant or did, I was forced to memorize their function. It's great to have a synth that has one function per knob only and each knob does exactly what it says on the tin; you can never make mistakes.

I also didn't know how the preset system worked exactly - so any time I modified a preset, I was afraid that I would've modified it forever - so I took care to put the sliders back into their place to match the original again. After a month or so I found out that it really didn't matter - that's exactly what presets are for - to memorize the original setting without failure.

The method with the best mileage, IMHO, consists of the following:

Memorize combinations of oscillator waveforms and tunings. Just listen to raw, unfiltered waveforms - pulse, square, saw, combined with the same at equal pitch, fifths, octave above, octave below, two octaves above, two octaves below, detuned slightly, detuned more, and so on. That gives you a solid basis for the raw materials of the sounds you hear - filter and volume are usually really easy to figure out just by recognizing.

Learn about dependencies; LFOs and envelopes are little robots that move knobs for you, and the intensity that they do this with depends on the modulation amount. If the amount is zero, you won't notice anything; if the amount is positive but the knob is already at the maximum, you won't notice anything either.

Practice what you read/see. Try what's being described instead of just watching someone do a video demonstration - and don't just try it with the proscribed settings of the tutorial, but with various combinations. If someone explains the effect of modulating the filter with an envelope while they use a saw wave, try that - but also try it with a square wave. You'll gain deeper understanding of what the effect actually does and you encourage yourself to experiment.

Don't just "turn the knobs". That's pretty much useless advice - move them and listen to what they do. If they don't do anything, you've found a dependency (meaning that their function will reveal itself when you change another setting) - they're not added for decorative purposes. If they do anything, move 'm up, down, and put them back in their original position. Then, continue with the next. Letting them stay in a completely different position is no good basis for learning, because the effect of each knob is obscured by what you did to another.

It doesn't matter if you like software or hardware; an interface that does what it says on the lid without having you guess every time which of the 8 generic knobs of a controller does what is superior for learning purposes. It's not impossible with purely software, but it requires far more discipline - e.g. sticking with one plugin for a month or two until you've found out how it ticks.

After building a thorough mental model of a synthesizer (which can be applied to others, too) - then you know what the labels do and then it doesn't matter anymore what you use.

Since the rule is cheap / real analog / lots of knobs - pick two! - the Nord is an excellent candidate to learn on. It's still manufactured, reasonably priced, and capable. Plus, no effects, which means you have to make the sounds sound good on their own, first.

[bizness80]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

My ignorance with synthesizers was actually an asset now that I look back on it; because I didn't know what any of the labels above the knobs really meant or did, I was forced to memorize their function. It's great to have a synth that has one function per knob only and each knob does exactly what it says on the tin; you can never make mistakes.

I also didn't know how the preset system worked exactly - so any time I modified a preset, I was afraid that I would've modified it forever - so I took care to put the sliders back into their place to match the original again. After a month or so I found out that it really didn't matter - that's exactly what presets are for - to memorize the original setting without failure.

The method with the best mileage, IMHO, consists of the following:

Memorize combinations of oscillator waveforms and tunings. Just listen to raw, unfiltered waveforms - pulse, square, saw, combined with the same at equal pitch, fifths, octave above, octave below, two octaves above, two octaves below, detuned slightly, detuned more, and so on. That gives you a solid basis for the raw materials of the sounds you hear - filter and volume are usually really easy to figure out just by recognizing.

Learn about dependencies; LFOs and envelopes are little robots that move knobs for you, and the intensity that they do this with depends on the modulation amount. If the amount is zero, you won't notice anything; if the amount is positive but the knob is already at the maximum, you won't notice anything either.

Practice what you read/see. Try what's being described instead of just watching someone do a video demonstration - and don't just try it with the proscribed settings of the tutorial, but with various combinations. If someone explains the effect of modulating the filter with an envelope while they use a saw wave, try that - but also try it with a square wave. You'll gain deeper understanding of what the effect actually does and you encourage yourself to experiment.

Don't just "turn the knobs". That's pretty much useless advice - move them and listen to what they do. If they don't do anything, you've found a dependency (meaning that their function will reveal itself when you change another setting) - they're not added for decorative purposes. If they do anything, move 'm up, down, and put them back in their original position. Then, continue with the next. Letting them stay in a completely different position is no good basis for learning, because the effect of each knob is obscured by what you did to another.

It doesn't matter if you like software or hardware; an interface that does what it says on the lid without having you guess every time which of the 8 generic knobs of a controller does what is superior for learning purposes. It's not impossible with purely software, but it requires far more discipline - e.g. sticking with one plugin for a month or two until you've found out how it ticks.

After building a thorough mental model of a synthesizer (which can be applied to others, too) - then you know what the labels do and then it doesn't matter anymore what you use.

Since the rule is cheap / real analog / lots of knobs - pick two! - the Nord is an excellent candidate to learn on. It's still manufactured, reasonably priced, and capable. Plus, no effects, which means you have to make the sounds sound good on their own, first.

This.

Get a synth that has one function per knob/slider and follow Yoozer's advice exactly.

I went through pretty much the same process with my Akai AX-60 and also spent some time with the Roland Juno 6 and 60. All three are great starter synths - 1 osc analog subtractive is the best place to start IMO.

[energizer bunny]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

Check the Pop Sound Sources thread in my signature .



Sure. Started with a Juno-60 when I was 12, bought for me by my uncle - he was the one who gave me tapes of Jarre and Vangelis and what I had at home (an electronic transistor organ, not even with a drum machine) just couldn't make those sounds. So, I wanted something, and my meagre budget allowed the Juno-60 (this was around 1990).

My ignorance with synthesizers was actually an asset now that I look back on it; because I didn't know what any of the labels above the knobs really meant or did, I was forced to memorize their function. It's great to have a synth that has one function per knob only and each knob does exactly what it says on the tin; you can never make mistakes.

I also didn't know how the preset system worked exactly - so any time I modified a preset, I was afraid that I would've modified it forever - so I took care to put the sliders back into their place to match the original again. After a month or so I found out that it really didn't matter - that's exactly what presets are for - to memorize the original setting without failure.

The method with the best mileage, IMHO, consists of the following:

Memorize combinations of oscillator waveforms and tunings. Just listen to raw, unfiltered waveforms - pulse, square, saw, combined with the same at equal pitch, fifths, octave above, octave below, two octaves above, two octaves below, detuned slightly, detuned more, and so on. That gives you a solid basis for the raw materials of the sounds you hear - filter and volume are usually really easy to figure out just by recognizing.

Learn about dependencies; LFOs and envelopes are little robots that move knobs for you, and the intensity that they do this with depends on the modulation amount. If the amount is zero, you won't notice anything; if the amount is positive but the knob is already at the maximum, you won't notice anything either.

Practice what you read/see. Try what's being described instead of just watching someone do a video demonstration - and don't just try it with the proscribed settings of the tutorial, but with various combinations. If someone explains the effect of modulating the filter with an envelope while they use a saw wave, try that - but also try it with a square wave. You'll gain deeper understanding of what the effect actually does and you encourage yourself to experiment.

Don't just "turn the knobs". That's pretty much useless advice - move them and listen to what they do. If they don't do anything, you've found a dependency (meaning that their function will reveal itself when you change another setting) - they're not added for decorative purposes. If they do anything, move 'm up, down, and put them back in their original position. Then, continue with the next. Letting them stay in a completely different position is no good basis for learning, because the effect of each knob is obscured by what you did to another.

It doesn't matter if you like software or hardware; an interface that does what it says on the lid without having you guess every time which of the 8 generic knobs of a controller does what is superior for learning purposes. It's not impossible with purely software, but it requires far more discipline - e.g. sticking with one plugin for a month or two until you've found out how it ticks.

After building a thorough mental model of a synthesizer (which can be applied to others, too) - then you know what the labels do and then it doesn't matter anymore what you use.

Since the rule is cheap / real analog / lots of knobs - pick two! - the Nord is an excellent candidate to learn on. It's still manufactured, reasonably priced, and capable. Plus, no effects, which means you have to make the sounds sound good on their own, first.

A great read, thanks.

[mdoelger]

Hi thanks to everyone for their great advise.

It really helps me gain some kind of perspective.


Thanks alot!

[skira]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

It's great to have a synth that has one function per knob only and each knob does exactly what it says on the tin; you can never make mistakes.

What do you think of the Gaia for a newbie? (Or what do you recommend for a newbie?)

[elijahbrown]

Originally Posted by skira

What do you think of the Gaia for a newbie? (Or what do you recommend for a newbie?)

Gaia is cool, but for a noobie get the sh 201

[sjhdez]

I actually bought a Gaia today with a price match for 600. I'd call it my poor mans nord. Can dial in a lot of Roland -esque pad sounds I have a soft spot for and I really am digging the supersaw waveform.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by skira

What do you think of the Gaia for a newbie? (Or what do you recommend for a newbie?)

Interface-wise, great choice. SH201, too. Soundwise I'm not that big of a fan (you should be able to cover a lot of the SH201's sounds with a plugin) and the build quality could be a bit better. Other than that, go for it - but look for decent secondhand offers. Like the MicroKorg you've got people buying these, expecting them to do all the production work and current sounds, only to end up as expensive paperweights after 2-3 months or so.

[skira]

Thanks for the reply. Not wanting to hijack this thread, but (as a complete music noob) I think I'm probably leaning towards starting out with a Novation 61 SL MK II on my iMac ($550 with coupon during the holiday weekend) and using it with Garageband until I figure out which DAW I want (Ableton Live Intro?) and which software plugins I need. Sound reasonable?

[Yoozer]

There are many roads to take and many priorities to set - so if you're still in that stage, why not? When you decide to add hardware afterwards, you'll already have a good controller. In the case of the Nord, Virus etc. you won't even lose out on knobs, since the amount of 'm is equal on the keyboard and the rack version.

If you get the Novation new you'll probably get Live Lite with it, with a cheaper upgrade to the full version, if you want to go in that direction.

Good controller keyboards are never wasted money