Sampling Farfisa for live use

[pootkao]

Hey everyone
We have a Farfisa VIP that is becoming too difficult to tour with. We want to find a lighter/more stable way of having these sounds on stage, plus adding a synth to our rig. (Dave Smith or similar)

I've tried the Farfisa sounds on the Nord Stage, but they're not really what our instrument produces.

I'm primarily a guitar player, so excuse my lack of experience with such issues.

What would be ideal is to be able to sample every note of the Farfisa and map them into a sampler - ideally one with a built in keyboard. The new Nord 2 has sampling where we could map it out, but the price point means that is then what we would also be using for a synth.

What equipment / process would you recommend? The Korg MicroSampler seems like it'll do this, just a shame about only having 3 octaves.

[Franz Schiller]

Hi there pootkao,
Firstly which Farfisa VIP is it? Is it important to imitate the nuances of, say pulling out a drawbar (Like on a VIP 233)? Or do you really just use it for one sound?

The Nord's Farfisa emulation is really trying to imitate the Farfisa Compact sound, which is widely considered the "classic" Farfisa. However, Farfisa's other organs are definitely very cool and interesting alternatives to standard Hammond sounds.

Analog synths, such as the Dave Smith Prophet 08, actually do a decent job of emulating old organs. However, it is sort of a one trick pony, because organs like Farfisas get their sound from layering tons of footages, 16' 8' 4' 2 2/3', and so on between Flutes, Sharps, Clarinets; however, something like a Dave Smith Prophet 08 only has two oscillators per voice, so you can only get two footages (maybe four footages if you layer it, but then you're down to four voices).

I've had some limited experience with the MicroSampler, and I'm not sure its cut out to "multisample" the full range of your VIP. It has the memory, but the way it handles "banks" and key mode or whatever is really weird.

Unfortunately, you really need like a really real sampler. Which is a bit of a can of worms, but it can be done.

I don't know much about the Nord Wave, but I'd say you need a sampler that can do a little synthesis....that is, one that not only has the regular low pass filters, but also high pass.

What's your budget? And by the way, which VIP do you have?

[Yoozer]

Sufficient memory is going to be the problem.

Older rack samplers don't have enough of it and those will give you the required polyphony. Worse, cheaper ones can't work with wave files nicely and that makes sampling easier. An Akai Z4 or S5000 would work but you'd have to get one that's maxed out in terms of storage and it can deal with wave files. It's however quite bulky and you'll have to reserve a minute or so in advance to load everything - it won't remember samples after being switched off.

Sampling is an art. Realism and quick loading times are diametrically opposed. You'll also have to sample it without any effects and hope you can fake those later on.

If you don't touch the drawbars during the song and use a few settings per track you could probably do it easily - just hold each note for a second or so and let the sampler handle looping. If you want full control it's going to be more work initially - sample each drawbar separately.

The Nord Wave (not the Lead 2) may do the job, but fewer memory means fewer notes and more looping. There are no shortcuts.

[soulviasound]

Don't you like Vintage Organs ? There you can find a sample based Farfisa Compatct (not VIP). If you want your VIP you can use Kontakt in Receptor or Open Labs but it's all about your budget. The advantage is that you can sample it all the nuances and script them.

[Franz Schiller]

Dude, VIPs are vintage organs. Leave the guy alone for liking an unusual organ.

Anyways, how about the Alesis Fusion?

They usually have a ton of memory, have at least a full five octaves (depending which one you get) and are pretty affordable. Plus, they have a bunch of synthesis engines.

[pootkao]

Thanks everyone - I'll look into the Alesis Fusion

Question about the sampling responses: re: load time. Is that minute of wait time per patch change or just when starting up the machine? Between songs would be a bitch. Before the set would be no problem.

I'd sample the three different sounds of the Farf that we use the most.

Its the VIP 345 we've got. F'n awesome instrument. But a beast to tour with, and now that we're flying to more shows and doing a German tour in September... its just not gonna work.

Funny about the VIP 345 - there are three prominent bands in town with em right now. And all of us are trying to figure out how to replace them with a synth or sampler. Whatever the final solution is, some music store in town is gonna sell 3 of it.

The Prophet 08 is interesting to mention - been eyeing those and didn't realise they did Farfisa-esque stuff. We usually use 3 stops pulled out all the way, plus another couple midway. Sometimes a bit of working em on the fly, but working tremolo speed on the fly is more important, and we can always just use a pedal for that if the synth replacement can't do it.

Budget-wise, we'll have $3-4k ish to do this - but I'd prefer to be able to get a decent sampler and a good synth. Laptops on stage isn't an option for us... not the look we're going for, alas...

The Farfisa Compact is a mere shadow of the glory of the VIP.

[sizzlemeister]

I used my Fusion (when I had it) for live Farfisa emulation and it was killer. The onboard effects worked well, and you can indeed load a ton of samples at once.

It will pause to load up a large sample set, though.

Sorry, I can't recall if a laptop was an option (can't check with the phone app, either) but there are a lot of VST options there.

These days I'm using NI B4 for my Farfisa emulation and it works very well for that.

[sleestack]

how about;

AutoSampler

[Yoozer]

Only works if that Farfisa has MIDI - e.g. not likely.

[Franz Schiller]

I totally feel you about lugging a real Farfisa. I used a Farfisa Professional for a while, and god damn, that thing was so heavy, that my wrists would get strained just before playing. Its too bad...there's such a wow factor for sound and looks.

$3-$4k should be no problem. An Alesis Fusion 61 key is usually between $500-$800. I really think if you need it for three or four sounds, its probably perfect.

Load times are always the killer. But often, they load when you start them up. For samplers to load instantly, it needs to have flash memory; I only know of a few samplers with this; the MicroSampler, which we already discussed...the Korg Kronos, which would cut the mustard, but has that famous 2 1/2 minute load-time...and the Kurzweil PC3K, which currently only comes in an 88key version (but the 61 key is due in August or something).

There are probably other flash memory samplers, but these are the only ones I know of.

Good luck dude.

[sizzlemeister]

Depending on the condition of the HD, the Fusion ought to load up a sizable bank in under a minute.

I would imagine that the Fusion, or any HD-based sampler, would benefit from a good SSD. Load times could be under 30 seconds if PC/laptop performance is any indication.

[agoz]

Originally Posted by sleestack

how about;AutoSampler

In this case, as the Farfisa has no MIDI, it would be Keymap Pro.

Andrea
Redmatica

[pootkao]

Originally Posted by sizzlemeister

Depending on the condition of the HD, the Fusion ought to load up a sizable bank in under a minute.

I would imagine that the Fusion, or any HD-based sampler, would benefit from a good SSD. Load times could be under 30 seconds if PC/laptop performance is any indication.

Whats SSD?

[sizzlemeister]

Originally Posted by pootkao

Whats SSD?

SOLID STATE DRIVE


Solid-state drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[dr_Jezz]

This guy does a wicked Vox and is supposed to be coming out with a Farfisa soon:

Combo Model V

Martinic answers emails and produces great stuff for nada - he should have more plaudits - superb stuff - everyone check him out.

[Teknobeam]

You need to find something that can actually come close to synthesizing the Farfisa sound and will also allow you to modify the tones in real time. The Hammond B3 with a Leslie rotating horn speaker is one of the most rewarding sounds and expressive keyboard instruments that you can ever experience because it not only has amazing depth, but also an interface that can morph it's character with the speed of the horn and the drawbars in a variety of combinations. Very similar to the very thing you want to achieve with sampling the Farfisa. What happened with the B3 is that it's extreme popularity eventually led to a variety of companies that attempted to put that genie in a bottle and re package it in a much more compact and easy to gig with form. The Korg CX3 was the first real effort, and actually many people embraced it. It was very good and very compact, but you still needed a Leslie speaker system in order to achieve the full effect. A Leslie not only has an analogue acoustical advantage by virtue of it's design,, but it speeds up and slows down mechanically which to my knowledge hasn't been emulated properly. When you hear a real B3 with a real Leslie effect, it's memorable.

[Franz Schiller]

With all due respect, I think you guys are missing the crux of the OP's question. He was not talking or asking about leslies, nor was he looking for any of the benefits of a Hammond type instrument.

He says he needs three sounds only from his Farfisa VIP, which is a different organ than either the classic Farfisa compacts, or a Hammond.

If his isn't manipulating sounds realtime, it still seems like the fusion is the best idea so far.

[Teknobeam]

Franz, yes, you are right. I was rambling and way off track.