how to get sounds with more weight
Old 3rd May 2011
  #1
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Thread Starter
how to get sounds with more weight

Hey , i really have trouble getting more weight with plugins,do you have any tips? equing tricks? or some plugs that really make the source sound more heavy and dense (the free sonimus eq got me close but still not enough).
Old 3rd May 2011
  #2
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sounds like a job for parallel compression, maintains the spirit of the original sound but can add density and bite.
Old 3rd May 2011
  #3
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Laurend's Avatar
 

I'm a big fan of upward compression. FLUX has a de-expander which is great for densifying the sound.
Old 3rd May 2011
  #4
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Thread Starter
thanks guys i don t use much parallel /upward compression , gonna give it a try .
Old 3rd May 2011
  #5
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Reptil's Avatar
- doubling and phase tricks (chorus, parallel compression)
- distortion (transformers, clipping, etc.)
or a combination of the two (add a layer two octaves lower, distort it, shape it with an envelope, compress it, and mix with original)
Old 3rd May 2011
  #6
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rafkey's Avatar
For me, Reaktor's fatblaster : multibandcompression is just great!
Old 3rd May 2011
  #7
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Good suggestions here and I'll add a plus one to Reptil's distortion suggestion.

Tuning was a big eye opener for me and gave my synth sounds a new lease on life. Slight, and subtle tuning modulation can do wonders for a sound. In act using lots of intelligently selected subtle modulations can really help out a sound.

Layering multiple synths playing the same thing that give an illusion of one big sound, huge tip I got from a very cool well known producer.

Strip all your effects and make the sounds 'good and pure/dirty/whatever' from the get go. I try to get the sound correct from the source before I start stacking up stuff on them.

Analog distortion has its own character, as well as good quality digital distortion. Ohmicide is pretty off the wall for everything from subtle to full on wrap you up in a warm blanket kind of distortion. Or sometimes I can be a nice warm blanket made out of lava.

TONS of practice. You need to learn how to make any and every sound possible. Cuz how else are you going to get the sounds from your head onto playback.

Getting away from presets and teaching myself to make every single sound from scratch in the least amount of time possible is the biggest thing for me getting what I'm after.

Hope these help!
Old 3rd May 2011
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafkey View Post
For me, Reaktor's fatblaster : multibandcompression is just great!
multiband distortion is super sweet too!!

much better sounding for getting the tone of the sound correct for the mix than any traditional eqing method I've found.
Old 3rd May 2011
  #9
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Mardi Gras's Avatar
 

tried detuning your oscillators ?
Old 3rd May 2011
  #10
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Thread Starter
LOL it s not really what i m after or maybe you mean slight modulation of the pitch? even if it s good advice that won t give me the weight of runing the signal into some tubes or transformers.

i m looking for technics of how to make things more dense ,front to back depth, more phat, heavy...i don t know how to explain it with words.

anyway thanks for all the suggestions guys will give it a try, layering help a lot for this , right equing too , if you have some eq tricks to share.
Old 3rd May 2011
  #11
Gear maniac
 

Make use of really short verbs. I use lots of plate and room that are like 0.2 seconds or less. Add a verb a bit to 'experience' it, but it could be cool to show the verb a bit if it fits nice in the mix. The short verb will let your brain think it's really close, cause you'll only hear small verbs in small rooms... So if you're in a small room, shit must be standing close!

[edit]

oh btw maybe you're trying too much to give your sounds 'weight'. you also need sounds that are feather light to notice that other sounds are heavy. make use of contrast and abuse it

[/edit]
Old 3rd May 2011
  #12
Gear addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
i don t know how to explain it with words.
And therein lies the problem -- if you don't know how to explain it, you won't be able to reproduce it. It's really that simple, because once you really understand what you're trying to do, then the "tools" won't matter so much. When I find myself in this sort of situation and I'm really stumped, I try to find examples of sounds that have the "character" I'm after. So, if you're not quite sure what's going on (sonically speaking), then try to find a few examples on YouTube and post them, along with notes on timestamps to listen for (i.e., the bass sound that starts at 0:32).

There's a lot of silly talk when it comes to audio -- "depth", "weight", "warmth", "height", etc. None of that is good for anything but marketing. The real meat comes when you start to understand what, exactly, is happening to make a sound do what it's doing.
Old 4th May 2011
  #13
PSU
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Smash your sounds through an outboard preamp, compressor, mixing desk or fx unit to give them some life...

As always, that's just my opinion...
Old 4th May 2011
  #14
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You won't like this answer but in my experience it is simply working on more and more projects. While doing this consciously getting deeper into the outboard/plugins I already have through experimentation with an "ears only" kind of approach to tweaking any processing.

Long story short its constantly keeping my ear on the goals i have for sound, and learning everything I can using the limited tools I have. It has made more difference than any specific technique or gear.

One thing I find rarely nailed in lower end productions is effective and bold 200-800hz range "MUD" cutting on every recorded source. People often think they are doing this by formula or technique, but its an eyes closed kind of thing with center frequency, attenuation, and Q readily available to your hands. If done this way with practice you will sometimes be totally shocked at how deep and narrow the cut goes on some mics/sources.

Once you have your ear tuned in this way you are keeping only the useful energy of each track leaving tons of space for explosive energy in the appropriate areas.

Russell
Old 4th May 2011
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSU View Post
Smash your sounds through an outboard preamp, compressor, mixing desk or fx unit to give them some life...

As always, that's just my opinion...
Yeah this is one thing I like to do too, run the signal through my hardware eq, even without any boost or cut to the signal. Little bit of transformer magic never hurt anyone.
Old 4th May 2011
  #16
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Thread Starter
thanks some great suggestions, some i use already but thanks .

poserp yes it s exaclty that but i don t have any samples to post,it could take time to find one as lot of electronic musics i listen lack this weight.

To get a idea i m after more depth, take a kick or a lead , and i want silky highs ,phat low to it .the oposite of sharp,agressive and thin, i want round with weight .
Old 4th May 2011
  #17
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by minibof View Post
Yeah this is one thing I like to do too, run the signal through my hardware eq, even without any boost or cut to the signal. Little bit of transformer magic never hurt anyone.
which hardware eq do you use to get good result?
Old 4th May 2011
  #18
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:Metaphor:'s Avatar
 

First thought was "2nd order harmonics"--

on second thought, I'd add:

-Eqing well
-Parallel Compression
-limiting
-saturation/ harmonic control
-exciters
-control of stereo width & pan
-select types of compressors with the right character (waves API comes to mind here)

all have their effects on perceived heft/weight/density

It all depends on the source material, and what you want to achieve with it. Sometimes what sounds beefy isn't actually all that thick of a sound, it just implies a weight. For example, deep tuned floor toms may or cinematic percussion hits may seem to be beefy, even if the lows are actually cut from the sound in the mix. Character of a sound goes a long way toward impression in the listener's ear.

.02
Old 4th May 2011
  #19
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeshorephatty View Post
You won't like this answer but in my experience it is simply working on more and more projects. While doing this consciously getting deeper into the outboard/plugins I already have through experimentation with an "ears only" kind of approach to tweaking any processing.

Long story short its constantly keeping my ear on the goals i have for sound, and learning everything I can using the limited tools I have. It has made more difference than any specific technique or gear.

One thing I find rarely nailed in lower end productions is effective and bold 200-800hz range "MUD" cutting on every recorded source. People often think they are doing this by formula or technique, but its an eyes closed kind of thing with center frequency, attenuation, and Q readily available to your hands. If done this way with practice you will sometimes be totally shocked at how deep and narrow the cut goes on some mics/sources.

Once you have your ear tuned in this way you are keeping only the useful energy of each track leaving tons of space for explosive energy in the appropriate areas.

Russell
agree the mud in the low mids is very tricky.do you have some technics to share with the way you re keeping only the usefull energy of each track? it have a lot to do with what i m looking for.
Old 4th May 2011
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
which hardware eq do you use to get good result?
Black Lion Audio AM/CHA1

For me, personally, I find it adds a certain thickness to the bottom/mid end of the signal especially on full mixes. This is without dialling anything in too. Not to everyones taste of course.
Old 4th May 2011
  #21
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by :Metaphor: View Post
First thought was "2nd order harmonics"--

on second thought, I'd add:

-Eqing well
-Parallel Compression
-limiting
-saturation/ harmonic control
-exciters
-control of stereo width & pan
-select types of compressors with the right character (waves API comes to mind here)

all have their effects on perceived heft/weight/density

It all depends on the source material, and what you want to achieve with it. Sometimes what sounds beefy isn't actually all that thick of a sound, it just implies a weight. For example, deep tuned floor toms may or cinematic percussion hits may seem to be beefy, even if the lows are actually cut from the sound in the mix. Character of a sound goes a long way toward impression in the listener's ear.

.02
thanks ,for the second order harmonics what it give to the sound? do you know any good plugs for this ? do you also use equing too boost/cut some specific harmonics?

Guys and what about the transients? rounding,smoothing them on some source that could benefit from it ,do you use transient designer for this? it seems to sound a bit too much mechanical.
Old 4th May 2011
  #22
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Thread Starter
The easiest solution would be to get a pair of pultecs
Old 4th May 2011
  #23
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AlexDaCat's Avatar
 

May I suggest chosing the right sounds before processing. ...
Old 4th May 2011
  #24
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by minibof View Post
Black Lion Audio AM/CHA1

For me, personally, I find it adds a certain thickness to the bottom/mid end of the signal especially on full mixes. This is without dialling anything in too. Not to everyones taste of course.
thanks first time i hear about this eq .
Old 4th May 2011
  #25
007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_martin View Post
multiband distortion is super sweet too!!

much better sounding for getting the tone of the sound correct for the mix than any traditional eqing method I've found.
+ 1000

In fact I've found this method to be so effective that I am now addicted to it.
EQ is certainly not the answer, great for toning sounds at mix time, but not for the OP's particular query. Multi-band distortion plugs can be a bit daunting at first, yielding a seemingly 'over-the-top' distorted sound, but get to learn all the parameters, experiment, and you'll be loving the results. Big fan of Ohmicide for this, I use it on almost every sound nowadays.

To say that it's put a lot of fun back into recording and can pretty much reinvent and revive any old sound from any source....is an understatement.
Old 4th May 2011
  #26
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Thread Starter
indeed Ohmicide is a great plugin but i find it too complicated, never spent the time to learn it inside out .
Old 4th May 2011
  #27
007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
indeed Ohmicide is a great plugin but i find it too complicated, never spent the time to learn it inside out .
I dismissed it for a long time, for that reason alone, and thinking it just made everything way too distorted and fuzzy, until recently when browsing presets, one of them gave me an insane 'a-ha!' moment. Then I started playing with the knobs and got a better understanding of what everything does, it's really not that complicated at all, and as like most things, when you want to learn something, you just roll up your sleeves and dig in. Give it another shot, you might be amazed at what it can do.
Old 4th May 2011
  #28
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Running out through an avalon u5 is an inexpensive way of "analogizing" plugins into heavy, weighty, full sounds, if you have a little cash to spend.
Old 4th May 2011
  #29
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:Metaphor:'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
thanks ,for the second order harmonics what it give to the sound?
weight

or wood, smack, etc, depending on which harmonics are boosted

I don't do this with EQ, since most sounds change pitch, which alters which frequency the 2nd order harmonics are at. Boosting a static freq won't do much good towards giving the whole sound more weight....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
do you know any good plugs for this ? do you also use equing too boost/cut some specific harmonics?
Yes. I usually use Crysonic's nXstasy, though I prefer the version 2 to the current version 3. This is because it's easier to use, and I seem to get better results when I use the stereo version (v2) instead of the multiband version (v3)..... While checking their site, I came across a LE version that is not listed on their main page-- AND it's on sale until tomorrow! Hi pressure sales, I know Anyways, I would recommend this one over the v3, even though they're both on sale....

nXtasy :: Crysonic - Professional Audio Plugins VST AU RTAS

Also, there's the airwindows plug, which I have not tested

Airwindows Audio Unit Plugins

Also, SPL's twin tube will increase harmonic levels, though there's no individual control over which order of harmonics, AFAIK. For that matter, any saturation lightly applied will subtly boost harmonics. The difference is that you have no control over which, and it's up to the character of the saturation as to which will be dominant. That being said, I've gotten great results from subtle saturation before.

Try boosting 2nd order harmonics on 808 kicks, or a drum buss-- that's weight!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
Guys and what about the transients? rounding,smoothing them on some source that could benefit from it ,do you use transient designer for this? it seems to sound a bit too much mechanical.
Never had any success will transient plugs as far as getting more weight out of a sound. But I am still learning a lot, and someone else may have had great success with it.

Hope that helps!

thumbsup
Old 4th May 2011
  #30
restpause
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Choose heavier sounds.

If they are samples tweak them to perfection in an editor before you load them into your sampler. That way you can manually compress just the transients and not squash the life out of the whole sample. For impact, sometimes you need sounds to be more focussed and short and loud than just long and sustained loud. It's the difference between a punch in the face and someone just pushing your face with constant pressure. A good punch will do more damage because of the focussed impact instead of somebody just pushing you backwards flathanded over your face. Get it?

EQ them with more thumping bass. You did say HEAVY, right?
try using a nice shelf EQ instead of just graphic EQ

Layer your drums. AND Layer your synths.
Dont be afraid to resample.
Dont be afraid to overdub a sinewave bass
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