sequential circuits pro one vs moog prodigy?

[sunnyb]

bought a pro one off a guy who also is selling his moog prodigy. both are mint. really like the pro one but i plan on eventually getting a prophet 5, so i was thinking of moving to a moog for mostly bass purposes. just wondering how a prodigy stacks up against the pro one especially for bass. the differences ive noticed are no noise generator, arpegiator/sequencer, or ramp waveform for modulation, no crossmod, and more limited keyboard tracking. these arent the biggest deals to me, especially synth il eventually own a P5. only think id miss would be the retrigger function on the pro one. just for the tone, how does it stack up when it comes aggressiveness, deepness in the bass, etc. the guy offered to trade the prodigy + cash for his pro one back, and i could use that cash for something else, maybe something cleaner like a mopho,tetra, or polyevolver rack for some cleanness when called for. im obviously gonna try before i buy, but sometimes you get the feel of a synth when you first play it.

any opinions? what im pretty much asking is moog prodigy + tetra/mopho/polyevolver vs. pro one.

thanks in advance

[sunnyb]

mostly concerned about depth of bass and aggressiveness in filter between the pro one and moog prodigy

[Xero]

I have a prophet 5. just sold my prodigy as part of a trade for a yamaha CS-30, which I think is much more interesting. I wanted a minimoog, and the prodigy was a stupid attempt to substitute that, it didn't really ever get used, and that's why it's gone.

the bass on the moog was fine I guess, but it just didn't really stand out that much to me. I dunno, i think I'd have been much more happy with a minimoog for that purpose. more often than not I'm using my p5, jp8, mks80 for bass, even though they are all polysynths...although I like using the ms-20/sh-101/sh2 for bass sometimes too.

however for bass, I really do like a CEM synth on bass, thus prolly why the p5 and mks-80 get thrown in there so much. the rolands monosynths do just fine too. and a pro-one wouldn't hurt either.

pro-ones are nice, but I have trouble justifying buying one since i own a p5, although they aren't the same thing, but it's close enough in my book.

I dunno, i'd skip the prodigy, it's not a minimoog. it's famous for like, crossmod sounds and stuff, but it's bass is average. it's architecture is somewhat limited compared to a pro-one, and there's many other monosynths which can do a bit more in that price range. It definitely has a moogy sound and can sound pretty nice at times, but I just don't think it shares the same uniqueness as a minimoog...i'd see if you can try it out. maybe it'll fit better for you, it just didn't get used at all in my setup for whatever reason. probably because I have numerous synths which can sound just as good and have way more flexibility in other areas.

maybe keep the pro-one and sell it later if you get a p5.

[chrisso]

I don't know the Prodigy at all, but don't underestimate the Pro One. It's a cracking synth. I had one when I first started and used it for bass all the time. I still have tons of fx samples I made with it. The onboard sequencer can be nice too.

[sunnyb]

i absolutely love the pro one! but im pretty set on a prophet 5, so i figured id get a nice moog. you know what, ive spent all day listening to minimoog bass and its a bit depressing, it sounds so good. theres such a distinct wooden tone to it, and so much punch and bite. ive considered the se-1/se-1x, but it feels like one of the main factors in the minimoog sound are its quick envelopes. voyager is great too, but different. theres always a synthesizers.com modular, but for a decent system it would cost about as much as a mini... i guess i should hang on to the pro one until i move onto something that gets me exactly what i want.

[Zombie H]

I think they BOTH sound amazing and both reasonably affordable even nowadays

[revstate]

the pro~one is a piece of shit imo, and I love most analog monosynths

on the other hand, the prodigy was made after bob left moog music to start big briar, so it's not a real moog imo. people like the memory moog though, and shit on the voyager... but... the memory moog was not made by bob, it was broken and crap to begin with, and the voyager was bob's masterpiece.

the pro~one was made REALLY cheaply, and so was the prodigy, either way, you are buying a mass produced cheapy little pos compared to the good analogs out there.

[Acid Hazard]

The Pro-One a piece of shit, yeah right. It might be cheaply built, but it sure doesn't sound like it. Get the Synthwood case, and the build quality goes up exponentially. The only real nice thing i normally hear about the Prodigy is it has a killer Sync sound. But then again, so does the Pro-One.

Keep the P-One, forget the Moog. The Prophet-5 is different enough from the Pro-One to justify both. Especially if you end up with a Rev.1 or 2.

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Acid Hazard

The Pro-One a piece of shit, yeah right. It might be cheaply built, but it sure doesn't sound like it. Get the Synthwood case, and the build quality goes up exponentially. The only real nice thing i normally hear about the Prodigy is it has a killer Sync sound. But then again, so does the Pro-One.

yeah the prophet 5 sync sound (like on the cars - lets go) is like a classic, and the pro-one basically has the same thing give or take. Feature-wise, the pro-one kills the prodigy I think...the prodigy is fairly minimal for a 2xVCO mono...no S&H either IIRC...i think an sh-2 would be slightly more bang for about the same buck...although that only has 1 envelope, but at least its a 4 stage...the prodigy has the 3+release switch kinda style which i guess so a minimoog would, but meh...that's out of the question here anyway so whatever. and the pro-one's got 2x full ADSR envelopes to boot.

quality wise, well whatever, IIRC the only really bad thing about the pro-one was the membrane keyboard, the j-wires you could at least clean, then again membranes you can get that repair paint...plus the prophet 5 still uses j-wires too so that's kind of irrelevant if you really think about it. and damn straight those j-wires can be a pain, but luckily my prophet 5 is midi'ed so for anything serious i just don't bother and go for midi, it won't glitch/tweak like the keys inevitably will over time unless you clean them literally yearly or more in some climates...i usually got it air conditioned here but in some humid climates i imagine it could be a lot worse.

[sunnyb]

theres no way im gonna end up with a rev 1 or 2 P5, prices are crazy these days. the pro one is awesome, and mine is really really mint in every way, got really lucky. still love the minimoog though, need to figure out a way to get that sound. either dot com modular, model d, voyager, macbeth, etc... gonna have to figure that one out when i can afford it. im most likely gonna stick with the pro one for now, i actually spent the last hour pretending it was a mini haha. can get pretty close with some eq and a pushing the preamp.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by revstate

the pro~one was made REALLY cheaply, and so was the prodigy, either way, you are buying a mass produced cheapy little pos compared to the good analogs out there.

But then sound is what really matters, isn't it?

[Zombie H]

Originally Posted by revstate

the pro~one is a piece of shit imo, and I love most analog monosynths

on the other hand, the prodigy was made after bob left moog music to start big briar, so it's not a real moog imo. people like the memory moog though, and shit on the voyager... but... the memory moog was not made by bob, it was broken and crap to begin with, and the voyager was bob's masterpiece.

the pro~one was made REALLY cheaply, and so was the prodigy, either way, you are buying a mass produced cheapy little pos compared to the good analogs out there.

weird i think the pro one sounds pretty amazing , prodigy too

[W-W-Int]

keep the pro one till you buy p5. when you do save a little more and get the concertmate mg-1 if you want the moog sound on the cheap. it is built like shit and you'll need to worry about whether or not the inside foam has melted down to sludge over the years if you get one or was it removed already. but... it's cheap, sounds good and has some extras the other small moogs don't. it's one major glaring flaw is the sliders are short and crappy. if that's a problem for you as you pla on lots of hand modulationof the filter then get the prodigy.

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by Xero

I have a prophet 5. just sold my prodigy as part of a trade for a yamaha CS-30, which I think is much more interesting.

that is interesting because I have often been very tempted to pick up a Cs 5 CS10, CS15 or a CS30 with the sequencer. I have heard some demos of the filter and I like the sound. I have never played a Prodigy, but I am familiar with a Pro One and the pro One offers a lot more mod routing. I'd probably go for a micromoog before a prodigy

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by revstate

the pro~one is a piece of shit imo, and I love most analog monosynths

on the other hand, the prodigy was made after bob left moog music to start big briar, so it's not a real moog imo. people like the memory moog though, and shit on the voyager... but... the memory moog was not made by bob, it was broken and crap to begin with, and the voyager was bob's masterpiece.

the pro~one was made REALLY cheaply, and so was the prodigy, either way, you are buying a mass produced cheapy little pos compared to the good analogs out there.

The Pro One other than it's lousy keyboard was actually built very well. Most of the synths in that era were made to gig. In fact, the Pro One is a lot tougher than all of the surface mount wannabe crap rolling off the presses these days. lets see where your Virus is in ten years after gigging it 5 days a week. But the pro one excelled at it's sound and it's flexibility. that's why people love it. And a lot of people still use it because well......it still works.

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by sunnyb

theres no way im gonna end up with a rev 1 or 2 P5, prices are crazy these days. the pro one is awesome, and mine is really really mint in every way, got really lucky. still love the minimoog though, need to figure out a way to get that sound. either dot com modular, model d, voyager, macbeth, etc... gonna have to figure that one out when i can afford it. im most likely gonna stick with the pro one for now, i actually spent the last hour pretending it was a mini haha. can get pretty close with some eq and a pushing the preamp.

The mini is a very special synth. It does "minimoog| better than anything else. But, if it's any consolation....the pro One can do a few sounds the mini can't. I wasn't a big fan of the P5, but i do like the pro one a lot.

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Teknobeam

that is interesting because I have often been very tempted to pick up a Cs 5 CS10, CS15 or a CS30 with the sequencer. I have heard some demos of the filter and I like the sound. I have never played a Prodigy, but I am familiar with a Pro One and the pro One offers a lot more mod routing. I'd probably go for a micromoog before a prodigy

i had a cs-10 that i sold, which i liked a lot. I made the decision to sell it, and the prodigy, for a cs-30.

i dunno bout the micromoog, i'd probably say if anything i wish i might have tried a moog source, but meh, i really want a minimoog and nothing else will do.

[analogbass]

Love some of the comments.."Prodigy AND Pro One are pieces of shit" LOL talk about a lack of imagination/poor programming skills/poor ears take your pick..

Prodigy is excellent sound (and i've owned all the good vintage Moogs) so is the Pro One-both are very good examples of the character of each brand. One is not better than the other sonically, they're simply different yet similar in many ways re: sonic pallettes-which suits your tastes better?

Technically, Pro One has more features AND has built-in CV/Gate jacks so you don't have to have it modded to access midi, unlike the Prodigy. And the keyboard quality in both cases will be moot to most, controlling via midi.


My suggestion with any vintage analog comparisons, given that in most cases both will sound great yet different, is to spend plenty of time with both by buying both then decide to either keep both or sell one. It's not which is better but rather which is closer to your personal tastes.

A Prophet 5 might be considered an upgrade to some over the Pro One, but again each has it's own pros and cons despite the sonic similiarities.

The CS30L or CS40M are other nice pieces if going in the Yamaha direction, but can be a lot more demanding to learn and less immediate than these other two upon initial use, but with potentially more nuance once mastered (nice sound coupled with quasi-modular options)..again you'd have to spend time A-Bing to know which is personally preferred vs. saying outright one is better than the other which is not the case.

[Xero]

I was trying to avoid flat out suggesting a yamaha to the OP, while that's what I sold my prodigy for, sound-wise, the prodigy sounds practically nothing like what the yamaha sounds like. However, the pro-one would have a lot more overlap with the prodigy, IMO, so if i was picking between those two, i'd take the pro-one.

the only real gotcha with yamaha's and korgs is that the CV is all hz/v and not directly compatible with the V/Oct that most american synths (and rolands) used. However, HZ/V synths seem to have a special character to them, not sure what it is, but the korgs and yamaha's are the main synths with the hz/v scheme and they both have a very unique character...the ms-10/20 and the cs-5/10/15/30 are really cool synths with character that is very different from a moog or pro-one (CEM) or roland (IR3109 or discrete), thing is, the cem3320, ir3109, ssm2040 are all basically 24db 4OTA filters...that were in essence trying to be like the 24db moog ladder filter...the multimode filters on the yamaha and korgs (and on things like the EDP Wasp, another of my favorites) are a bit different and kind of step you into a different territory. they can be useful, but they should be used in addition to something like a pro-one or moog, not in place of one...IMO anyway!

[chrisso]

The HZ/V thing can be easily taken care of by any decent midi to cv converter.
I agree, it's a slight consideration, but not major.
I owned the Pro One and CS40M at the same time.
The CS40M is very nice sounding, has some unique features and actually sounds quite unique.
In the end, for me, for what i was using it for, I decided the CS40M was not for me. And after i started to get into semi-modulars (Arp2600) and modulars I also sold the Pro One.
However, I can say both are GREAT synths that will reward.

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by Xero

i had a cs-10 that i sold, which i liked a lot. I made the decision to sell it, and the prodigy, for a cs-30.

i dunno bout the micromoog, i'd probably say if anything i wish i might have tried a moog source, but meh, i really want a minimoog and nothing else will do.

Lol, I have spent years avoiding dropping a large chunk of change on a minimoog when I always wanted one. How do you like the CS30? are you using the sequencer? and what do you like most about the synth.

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Teknobeam

Lol, I have spent years avoiding dropping a large chunk of change on a minimoog when I always wanted one. How do you like the CS30? are you using the sequencer? and what do you like most about the synth.

I don't actually have the cs-30 in my hands just yet, it's a trade currently in progress and the cs-30 itself is currently being modded to be duophonic and to support external triggering/stepping of the sequencer. i plan on using the sequencer with my ms-20 as well, since it also uses HZ/V, and then i'll sync the sequencer to my midi clock with one of various methods...i did own a cs-10 for a while though and i really liked it, that's why i wanted the cs-30 which is basically all that and more.

In many ways, the ms-20's serial highpass/lowpass filter can sound a lot like the multimode filter used in the yamaha CS series, so it's kind of funny how the HZ/V synths really do sound alike. The MS-20 will hold me over until the CS-30 is ready, but once it is, i'm going to be super excited to try that step sequencer! I really want me some more analog step sequencer action, one of the things on my todo list is to get that moon m569 analog sequencer module and maybe start a 5u moog clone modular along with it...i also have the cirklon on my short list, that will probably happen first in fact.

[golden beers]

yamaha's are thin sounding. not in a bad way, that's just the way they are. not ideal for bass

Pro1s are, as have been said, very, very cheaply made, i know because ive had the thing open enough times. the components were the cheapest ones that did the job, they even skimped on the circuit design, letting a component fry rather than having a few dollars extra components on the board.

but:

all the pots on mine still work, no problem. they're cheap but theyre rugged.

the sound is fuking huge; only the minimoog can beat it for bass and it is actually quite versatile for synthesis.

i've come to the conclusion that it IS the low cost components that MAKE this synth what it is, all the resistors (including the pots) are cheap-ass and noisy and the AMPs are low headroom, add that all together with an aggressive filter and you end up with earth shattering bass. i wouldn't go changing the cheapness of my Pro1, put some nice OPAMPS and CAPS and low noise resistors/pots in there and you'll end up with a disgusting, wimpy, still born version of the Pro1 with all its guts thrown out.

in short, the cheapness is the sound. and that sound, for what it is, is unparalled.

ps @ Xero, you should get one bro.

PPS @ OP: Pro1 wins every day, all day

[djugel]

Originally Posted by golden beers

yamaha's are thin sounding. not in a bad way, that's just the way they are. not ideal for bass

ummm.. what?

what yamaha synths have you used for bass?

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by djugel

ummm.. what?

what yamaha synths have you used for bass?

the lesser of the CS range.

but parhaps i shouldve added, IMO.

i found them thin. you may not, horses for courses

[wishy-washy]

Originally Posted by golden beers

yamaha's are thin sounding. not in a bad way, that's just the way they are. not ideal for bass

I disagree, the cs-15 and cs-30 simply are among the most versatile mono synths. The inability to get great sounds in the bass register with one of those can only be user error related.

[golden beers]

that may be so, but for me, the rolands, the korgs, the arps, the moogs and the pro1 all beat the yamahas for bass. IMO

i would take a korg ms10 or an sh2 over the CS-10 any time.

[golden beers]

ps- the CS30 is great, i haven't had any real experience with that one tho, just the couple of models below that. the 10 and the 15

[Xero]

i agree with you beers, the yamahas do sound thin, but in the same vein, so does the ms-20. In fact, part of the original criticism of those synths back in the day was that they sounded weak next to a minimoog or arp 2600...which, they still kind of do, but IMO that's an unfair comparison because you can't really directly compare 24db 4OTA filters with 12db multimode filters, they're just different beasts. Even the 24/12db filter in the jp8 is way different from the 12db multimode in the yamahas or the hp/lp in series used in the ms-20.

mind you, you can get these fat warbly bass sounds out of a cs-10. it can sound extremely fat, but it just lacks that funkiness of a minimoog that makes you think you're using a wah pedal or something but it's really just the awesomeness of the filters and such. it just can't quite get there. here's an old clip i recorded of futzin' around with the cs-10 on bass:

http://www.xero.cc/cs10bass.mp3

while you might not be able to do a minimoog sound on a cs-10, you probably can't do that sound on a minimoog...in that clip i'm basically showing off the 2 envelopes that the cs-10 has. can lead to all kinda craziness depending how you trigger the notes

ps: maybe some day i'll get a pro-one. the built on sequencer is intriguing. Honestly, I'm so close to wanting to ditch all my monosynths and go build a giant modular...i'm really lusting a moon m569 at the moment, as well as a cirklon. plus I still need to try out a rev2 P5 and decide if I must have a rev2 or not. There's one for sale right now by redmartian on youtube and he's got a video of him going through the factory patches, I must say that most sound remarkably similar to the rev3, but god damn on that first patch there's something magic happening either with effects it's going through or with those damn pesky SSM chips :P

[golden beers]

yes the ms20 is thin sounding, if its just oscillators and open filters.

but as you know the resonant hi pass makes up for that in spades, super heavy bass.