Justifying Expensive Synth Purchases

[droolmaster0]

Originally Posted by shponglefan

I am sorry to everyone for deliberately misquoting someone and not making it obvious that it's a joke.

FIXED

[RANTARAVE]

I like to use both.

I have a couple software peices, and I have an AMAZING VA Kurzweil PC3X

Compliment eachother very well..

Theres some things hardware does better, and theres some thing that Software does better.

I wouldn't dump a bunch of money on one synth. I would diversify

[enossified]

Originally Posted by pseudonym813

how do you justify buying expensive analog synths when there are tons of great sounding plugins

Any advice?

My advice is save your money until you can afford what you want.

I used to be a poor bass-playing student. I used my mom's organ through guitar pedals as my "synth" and "drum machine" for 15 years until I had the dough to buy my first synth. If I couldn't pay for it with money earned by playing gigs I didn't buy it. I bought everything used and shopped carefully. I would spend hours in music stores trying out gear so I knew what I liked and kept careful track of used prices, mfr's blowouts, etc.

I still follow those rules, only now I make more money from gigs thumbsup

Today for a student cheap/free software is the way to go. There are plenty of good-sounding free instruments (and even DAWs) esp. for Windows. I would take advantage of them while saving for hardware instruments.

I just wish cheap PCs were around when I was in school

[The Architecture]

Originally Posted by enossified

My advice is save your money until you can afford what you want.

I used to be a poor bass-playing student. I used my mom's organ through guitar pedals as my "synth" and "drum machine" for 15 years until I had the dough to buy my first synth. If I couldn't pay for it with money earned by playing gigs I didn't buy it. I bought everything used and shopped carefully. I would spend hours in music stores trying out gear so I knew what I liked and kept careful track of used prices, mfr's blowouts, etc.

I still follow those rules, only now I make more money from gigs thumbsup

Today for a student cheap/free software is the way to go. There are plenty of good-sounding free instruments (and even DAWs) esp. for Windows. I would take advantage of them while saving for hardware instruments.

I just wish cheap PCs were around when I was in school

but you had 50 dollar moogs and 200 dollar arp 2600s, and 500 dollar ems vcs3's. I need a time machine set for 1988

[Brian!]

being able to post up in this thread like a baller is all the justification you need bro:

Gear Porn thread - pics of your slutty setups

[Eigenwert]

Without the synth stand there would be a gap in my living room. A gap which could perfectly be filled with a TV. I don't want a TV.
tutt

[dlmorley]

Why justify it? Who to??
If you want it and can afford it, feel free!
But, no piece of gear is worth getting into financial difficulty over.
Not much new on the market I would spend my money on, but that's just me!
I just won a TX802 for $200 on ebay. That is a synth I would rather have than say an P08 or Origin. Again, that's just my taste but just because it's $200 doesn't mean it's not as inspiring as something for $3000.

[Leras]

In terms of sound:

Watch demo's on Youtube, and if you can't tell the sonic differences, or don't prefer them then maybe hold off for now until you have got to grips with Komplete.

Start with some 2nd hand cheaper mono synths. Waldorf Pulse, SH-101, Mopho etc and see if the difference is important to you. It might not be.

Analog is great for some things, punchy bass, cutting leads, but equally, NI Massive and others can do plenty of things that analog synths can't.

Interface:

A real synth can be much nicer to play with as you can be 'hands on', but that's not true of all analogue synths (e.g. tetra having no interface to speak of).

These days you can find control panels that can be added as VST's that make mapping controls quite a bit easier, though you may sill want a control surface, even a simple novation nocturn or just a keyboard with controllers that can be mapped.

VSTi's have better interface for patch recall, are easier to map automatable controls to and have interface advantages of different kinds from hardware synths. Not trying to plug Massive particularly, but there are no hardware synths that are as complex and as easy/intuitive to program

i.e. you can set up either to be nice to work with, different types of effort may be required for each.

What to do?:

Get to grips with your Komplete package for a few months, there is plenty to keep you busy. You could spent months learning what's available, and then find Reaktor which would be more months to get to grips with!

Listen to as many demos as possible of cheaper analog synths. Maybe ebay a cheap mono synth and see if the 'richer' but more limited sound is one that's important to the music you want to make.

.

[darthtrader]

I think I paid 500 bucks for reaktor 3, I see the disk sitting on the wall here.
It is basically worth zero at this point being 2 versions behind.

From all the synths I've owned/bought/sold I think I'm probably up 900 bucks from wise initial purchases of used gear.

Years back I bought a ztar for 1100, played with it for a year and then it went for 1600 on ebay.

Komplete will be worth zero in 5 years.
Better question is how do you justify expensive software purchases.

[kilon]

Originally Posted by pseudonym813

I'm just wondering, as I am about to purchase another synth, how do you justify buying expensive analog synths when there are tons of great sounding plugins out there that are in many cases way more flexible?

As an example, I was about to get a P08 a couple weeks ago, but I began thinking about how great plugins like NI Komplete have tons more capability and flexibility for a much lower price than a P08. As a poor student, I am not too keen on dropping months of savings onto one synth as opposed to less than half the price on the NI bundle. But I also know that sitting in front of the computer clicking is no where near as inspiring or fun for me as actually turning knobs and pushing buttons.

Any advice?

Well the only analogue I own is Andromeda, and bought it only because I like how it looks .... oh and it has 72 knobs I love to turn.... but justify it ? Hell no!!!

But using hardware is so much FUN!!!!

[soundxplorer]

Originally Posted by pseudonym813

But I also know that sitting in front of the computer clicking is no where near as inspiring or fun for me as actually turning knobs and pushing buttons.

This is the reason why I stick with hardware. Save up and buy what you want. If you compromise you'll always be thinking about what you could have had if you waited a little longer.

I think paying for software is pretty much throwing your money in the trash. Maybe there are a handful that are worth $ if you really like them, but man I hate knowing that no matter what you spend, that software will have a resale value of ZERO on a long enough time line. There are lots of FREE softsynths if you search the KVR database. Stick with those as a compromise until you can afford the hardware you really want.

[kilon]

Originally Posted by soundxplorer

This is the reason why I stick with hardware. Save up and buy what you want. If you compromise you'll always be thinking about what you could have had if you waited a little longer.

I think paying for software is pretty much throwing your money in the trash. Maybe there are a handful that are worth $ if you really like them, but man I hate knowing that no matter what you spend, that software will have a resale value of ZERO on a long enough time line. There are lots of FREE softsynths if you search the KVR database. Stick with those as a compromise until you can afford the hardware you really want.

There is one thing though that makes software even better value for money , besides low cost, and destroys the fact that will cost nothing the next year. Low cost upgrades. Yup, in all cases, well except Virus, upgrades are unthinkable, unless you are ready to fork out some serious cash for the next upgrade and this happens usually with workstations and even with those can be huge incompatibilities , making move presets from one machine to another, near impossible.

Software however offers low cost upgrades , that keep your synth not only useful but current to the recent technology and not just an old relic. Soft synth lose value because they evolve, hardware on the other hand, does not .

However the ability to stick with your favorite synth, be able to upgrade with new features and abilities, keep compatibility with older versions and all that for very low cost , this alone, is priceless. The is something predominately soft synths do.

[enossified]

Originally Posted by The Architecture

but you had 50 dollar moogs and 200 dollar arp 2600s, and 500 dollar ems vcs3's. I need a time machine set for 1988

Well, I had a $25 SH-101 and someone gave me his Odyssey for free, but that's as far as I got.

Like everybody else in those days I really wanted digital gear.

[soundxplorer]

Originally Posted by kilon

Software however offers low cost upgrades , that keep your synth not only useful but current to the recent technology and not just an old relic.

Yep, that's exactly why the Jupiter-8 is so cheap right now. Roland stopped issuing updates for it 25 years ago.

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by pseudonym813

I'm just wondering, as I am about to purchase another synth, how do you justify buying expensive analog synths when there are tons of great sounding plugins out there that are in many cases way more flexible?

As an example, I was about to get a P08 a couple weeks ago, but I began thinking about how great plugins like NI Komplete have tons more capability and flexibility for a much lower price than a P08. As a poor student, I am not too keen on dropping months of savings onto one synth as opposed to less than half the price on the NI bundle. But I also know that sitting in front of the computer clicking is no where near as inspiring or fun for me as actually turning knobs and pushing buttons.

Any advice?

I look at it from a long term perspective:
When I am 60 years old a P08 will still be working great if I take care of it. When I am 60 years old will NI Komplete still be running on my computer? Probably not.

Then again, maybe you wont be making music when you are 60. Maybe all you need is software to get you going for the next few years until you take up tennis or fishing.

My experience is that software is ephemeral and holds no tangible value over time. When I buy software I accept this fact. YMMV.

[Shy]

Originally Posted by Dysanfel

When I am 60 years old will NI Komplete still be running on my computer? Probably not.

It will work just fine even when you're 220 years old.

[kilon]

Originally Posted by Dysanfel

I look at it from a long term perspective:
When I am 60 years old a P08 will still be working great if I take care of it. When I am 60 years old will NI Komplete still be running on my computer? Probably not.

Then again, maybe you wont be making music when you are 60. Maybe all you need is software to get you going for the next few years until you take up tennis or fishing.

My experience is that software is ephemeral and holds no tangible value over time. When I buy software I accept this fact. YMMV.

In 10 years, not 60 , 10 ,you won care if your current software will run on your computer, i can guarantee you that. There will be tons better software out there, to keep you occupied for the next 60 years.

That the "problem" with software its too good to resist the upgrade.

[soundxplorer]

Originally Posted by Shy

It will work just fine even when you're 220 years old.

But only on a 220 year old computer. Good luck finding one of those that works.

[kilon]

Originally Posted by soundxplorer

But only on a 220 year old computer. Good luck finding one of those that works.

No luck needed at all

all is needed is

2 letters

VM



I still run my Amstrad CPC 6128 games just fine here!

[enossified]

Originally Posted by Dysanfel

I look at it from a long term perspective:
When I am 60 years old will NI Komplete still be running on my computer?

It might if you were 56 like me

The problem is not really the SW but the computer it's running on. When my Atari ST finally croaked it just wasn't cost effective to keep maintaining that hardware or use something like STEEM, made more sense to switch to a more modern computer, OS and apps.

Maybe my suggestion wasn't too clear. If you're a poor student, use SW today while saving up for hardware. When you have enough hardware, dump the softsynths. Like I wrote that wasn't an option for me when I was a student...PCs didn't even exist, so no synths for me

[Shy]

Originally Posted by soundxplorer

But only on a 220 year old computer. Good luck finding one of those that works.

Even Windows 50 will run that stuff fine, no need for an old computer. Now if it was dongle driver dependant...
(Mac OS doesn't count.)

[JimmiG]

Originally Posted by cl516

i'm not sure i have the most appropriate advice for you, but i will say this: do only one or the other. either stick with plugins, or just go for the hardware you want. don't get something that you think might be an ok substitute only to find out you still have to get the other one later. demo demo demo.

This applies regardless of whether you're trying find a software synth to use as a substitute for a hardware synth or vice versa.

If you want the fat "Moog sound", don't spend $1000 buying plugins and cheap VA hardware synths, hoping to find the ultimate emulation. Just buy a Slim Phatty or something and be done with it.

On the other hand, I think it's perfectly fine to mix plugins and hardware. I don't know of any VA hardware synth that has the Separate Voice Architecture of OP-X Pro II, for example. Even the original OB-X isn't a substitute since you can't insta-recall voice card tunings on the fly like you can with the plugin. Not that I wouldn't mind owning a real OB-X too...

Omnisphere is another example - in terms of sheer size of the sample library, no hardware synth can come close. If it did, it would essentially be a PC inside a keyboard enclosure, complete with hard drive and Intel or AMD CPU.

[plaid_emu]

Originally Posted by darthtrader

I think I paid 500 bucks for reaktor 3, I see the disk sitting on the wall here.
It is basically worth zero at this point being 2 versions behind.

From all the synths I've owned/bought/sold I think I'm probably up 900 bucks from wise initial purchases of used gear.

Years back I bought a ztar for 1100, played with it for a year and then it went for 1600 on ebay.

Komplete will be worth zero in 5 years.
Better question is how do you justify expensive software purchases.

But if you actually USE that software, aren't you getting a return on your investment? Especially if you create something with it? And even more so if you're talented (or clever) enough to profit from that creation?

Reaktor 5 was one of the best purchases I've made (if not THE best). I paid $250 for it when it went on sale and I constantly use it. Definitely been a much better deal for me than the hardware I eventually sold that also depreciated considerably after the next "latest and greatest" piece of hardware showed up on the market.

I appreciate the fact that Reaktor is even upgradeable. Wish I could've said the same about all that hardware I sold.

I wish more hardware manufacturers gave more long term upgrades/support like Access does. I LOVE the Virus TI for that, among other things.

[James Will]

Originally Posted by soundxplorer

There are lots of FREE softsynths if you search the KVR database.

Keep in mind that the hardware synth (especially many modern ones) can be your MIDI controller for those softsynths.

I always recommend having something that can make sound during a computer crash... especially if you're going to be playing live eventually... It'll save your A$$!

Besides, the hardware lets you turn it on and go! There's no waiting for the computer to boot, loading in the software, loading the softsynth, checking that the channel is on, etc. Relatively instant gratification! thumbsup

[a zombie]

You should do whatever will be more musically inspiring. Think of your synth's as instruments, not gear. I know this is very personal, and many probably won't agree with me here, but would you buy a guitar controller and a virtual guitar software that could model a les paul, a strat, tele, acoustic etc? or would you slowly collect real guitars?

Also a less personal thing to think about is whether you will be using the synths live. do you want to go on stage with a laptop and midi controller?