Let's talk analog filters: which suck and which are the bomb dot com?

[fooddude]

Don't wanna list my current set up again.. most proly already know what I have from my recent posts, which is mostly inexpensive gear, but at least "one of each" for now (1 seq, 1 sampler, 1 poly, 1 mono, 1 FM, 1 reverb, 1 delay, 1 drum, etc., etc.) and a decent n00b set-up.

One thing I definitely do not have yet, but really NEED and want bad and soon, is an analog filter. I need one pretty bad for dirtying up some things here and there (especially my too clean sounding FM TX81Z and also other samples, synths, drums, etc..) and also doing some cool program midi sweeps and such.

So which are the best and which are the worst?

So far I am aware of and read that:

-MoogerFooger: Awesome. Only downer is it isn't midi and not a rack shape. But awesome sound same as the minimoog filters?

-Allen Heath VF-1: I only heard from one person (owner of a synth shop) it is really really good. Havent heard of anyone else or even here using it and opinions on it. Looks cool with LPF and also BP and HPF. Downer is that I never even seen one on ebay yet; must be rare.

-MFC42: All I have read is that it is cr@p. Is that true?

-Electrix Filter Factory/Queen: Queen isn't midi, but same as Factory? I heard and read that this Electrix filter is really good. How good? Good as or better than the MoogerFooger?

-Sherman FilterBank: A little over my budget. And, I als read it's more of a distortion effect rather than an actual filter. So this is most likely out of my list.

-Any other recommendations?


Usage: How does one usually use an analog LPF filter with a Mackie mixer? Parallel or Serial? I assume serial and full wet (via Insert, or even just plugging synth/drum/machine-out straight into the Filter-in, then into the mixer).

My question: Is it advisable to use an analog lowpass filter on my Aux sends? Asking and wanting to do this, so I can have multiple channels/instruments going into the filter and make use of it more;l maybe just turn my Aux knob full wet if need be. Much easier than group/sub-outs (since there is really no return on group/sub-out'ing on my mackie; which I want the/my entire mix to be inside before shooting out a song to be recorded).

thx

[modularjack]

Electrix filter factory is the bomb and midi controllable. Pretty hard to find one these days though since Electrix went tits up and people that have them want to keep them.

[fooddude]

I actually see many Electrix Filter on CL and Ebay. Unlike the VF-1, which I never see.

So they're good huh? It's most likely either the Electrix or the MoogerFooger (since the VF1 is so rare, and the MFC has bad reviews)... Maybe I'll scoop up an Electrix..

BTW: Is it cool to use a filter on the Aux sends? I want to route much more stuff into the filter, instead of just one instrument/channel. Full CW on Aux knob/full wet perhaps?

[ohmicide]

Originally Posted by fooddude

One thing I definitely do not have yet, but really NEED and want bad and soon, is an analog filter. I need one pretty bad for dirtying up some things here and there (especially my too clean sounding FM TX81Z and also other samples, synths, drums, etc..) and also doing some cool program midi sweeps and such.

Sherman Filterbank does that beautifully and much much much more

Originally Posted by fooddude

Sherman FilterBank: A little over my budget. And, I als read it's more of a distortion effect rather than an actual filter. So this is most likely out of my list.

Where did you read that from?? that sound pretty stupid to me. The Sherman Filterbank is definitely a filter. A really ****ing good one! As a matter of fact, it's pretty much a synthesizer without the oscillators. A synthesizer with two filters that can be either used in parallel or in serial.

You can definitely use it to dirty things up, it is damn good at that, but that's only scratching the surface. The thing can get pretty crazy by doing pseudo stereo effects, octave effects, vowel sounds, ring modulation, FM modulation, crazy sweeps, etc.

Here's a demo of it I made, first you hear my Little Phatty alone and then it's all the Sherman.

http://www.box.net/shared/a8pv8ujoau

No MIDI or CV was used for this, it's all envelope trigger and knob twisting. Keep in mind that it can get miles crazier than this with all the CV I/O it has. I've been having tons of fun using it with my Future Retro XS. I can run any of the oscillators through the Filter FM input. It's sick.

[shadowfac]

There are lots, depending on your budget. Check out these:

Mutronics Mutator
Shippmann Ebbe Und Flut
Vermona Action Filter 2,CrossFilter, DAF-1
Sherman Filterbank 2

[BTByrd]

I had the Filterfactory a long time ago but didn't think it was anything special at the time.

The Macbeth Moroco is nice, and the Niio Iotine Core looks promising but these are both over your budget.

The Moog filter is nice, but it's lowpass only. I know that's what you're focusing on, but I don't know why you should limit yourself.

In your budget (maybe) is the Sherman Restyler, which is cool, multimode, and stereo. A bit pricier than the Sherman, but perhaps more suited to what you want to do with it.

Also the Oto Biscuit is pretty awesome and in your budget and you get way more than just filters. This would be at the top of my list if I were you.

Another esoeteric option is the Ekdahl Moisturizer (which has some really nice filters in addition to the spring reverb).

Finally, there's the option of getting the TipTop Audio happy ending kit (about $200) and buying whatever Eurorack filters float your boat. There are a ton of options on the market, and each one is a beautiful and unique snowflake. Some Doepfer filters (eg. the Wasp and Xtreme filters) can get really dirty and you can pick them up for less than $100 if you buy used. If you go new, they're not much more expensive. Vactrol-based filters like the Malekko Borg have a unique sound that you can't find elsewhere. And then there's everything else in Euro.

[GoldMember]

Originally Posted by fooddude

Only downer is it isn't midi and not a rack shape.

forget MIDI.
think... CV.

Rack? Modular....

[Entrainer]

Sherman FB2 is awesome. You just have to know how to use it,
and what to use it on.

However, reading some of your posts, I don't think it's the right
match for you. With the way you work, the gear you use, and
the style you are into... I think an Ebbe und Flut or Mutronics would
be the absolute best fit. More envelope following, clean, smooth.

[Llitsor]

Originally Posted by BTByrd

Also the Oto Biscuit is pretty awesome and in your budget and you get way more than just filters. This would be at the top of my list if I were you.

Those things are brutal thumbsup Fragmented 8 bit goodness with a very fine analogue filter on the end.. And it's all stereo too.
Slight sore point being that you can't bypass the 8 bit shenanigans and go straight to the filter. It's not a problem for me, but it may bother some folk..

[Acid Hazard]

I've decided to sell my Filter Factory for anyone interested.

[Bumply]

You can get real dirty with a jomox tres, using the feedback. Just make sure you've got a limiter in the chain. I've one and the filter doesn't cut as nicely as most of the others, but the feedback can give you very nasty stuff.

[The Hamburglar]

Originally Posted by alehoe

Sherman Filterbank does that beautifully and much much much more



Where did you read that from?? that sound pretty stupid to me. The Sherman Filterbank is definitely a filter. A really ****ing good one! As a matter of fact, it's pretty much a synthesizer without the oscillators. A synthesizer with two filters that can be either used in parallel or in serial.

You can definitely use it to dirty things up, it is damn good at that, but that's only scratching the surface. The thing can get pretty crazy by doing pseudo stereo effects, octave effects, vowel sounds, ring modulation, FM modulation, crazy sweeps, etc.

Here's a demo of it I made, first you hear my Little Phatty alone and then it's all the Sherman.

pseudo stereo.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

No MIDI or CV was used for this, it's all envelope trigger and knob twisting. Keep in mind that it can get miles crazier than this with all the CV I/O it has. I've been having tons of fun using it with my Future Retro XS. I can run any of the oscillators through the Filter FM input. It's sick.

I was actually under the same impression as him, that it was really for serious distortion-type filter effects, and your fantastic demo really showed me otherwise. Thanks for that!

[fooddude]

Lots of great suggestions here, but many are over $1k or close to it, like the Mutator, Ebbe und Flut, Moroco, which are waay over my budget, lol.

That Oto Biscuit looks really cool (I love 8-bit sound, like my Mirage) with a bunch of other fx in it too. So does that Sherman Restyler, looks like lots of fx and nice filtering..that'd be a hard choice b/n the Biscuit, Restyler and FB; they're all so interesting... Even then, these 3 are still out of my budget, similarly priced the same about 500-700 bux (still much cheaper that the more expensive Ebbe und Flut, Mutator, etc. though)

...my price range was around 200-300, lol...maybe 400, but that's pushin it... That's why the ones I was askin about were the cheaper MoogerFooger, Electrix, ...hmm, maybe an old Vermona DAF or a MAM?

...Deng, that Biscuit and Restyler looks really versatile and useful though, droooool

[THEODICY]

The mutator would be great, but not for the money they are demanding these days. I know they use SSM filters, 2044's right? For that kind of money you could almost put together a starter modular setup with patchable filters. BUT, if one were to try and "clone" a mutator with comparable modules, which modules would one need?

[Llitsor]

Originally Posted by THEODICY

The mutator would be great, but not for the money they are demanding these days. I know they use SSM filters, 2044's right? For that kind of money you could almost put together a starter modular setup with patchable filters. BUT, if one were to try and "clone" a mutator with comparable modules, which modules would one need?

If an SSM2044 flavoured modular filter is what you want.. A-105

[fooddude]

Thx for the demo alehoe... sounds very capable, extensive, versatile and can do a lot! Sounds more like a crazy, intensive multi-fx unit with analog filters. Decisions decisions, oh humm... Man, that Restyler and Biscuit look awesome too. I wonder which is better out of the Sherman's now though, the Restyler or the FB... I assume the Restyler is pretty nu-school... I never heard of it or the Biscuit. When did the Biscuit and Restyler come out?

..As much as those 3 aforesaid units are awesome...I don't think i am getting any of them as they are out of my budget and finding one used is unlikely since they are new.

...I think I'll just settle on a MoogerFooger... or a used Vermona..

BTW: How are MAM filters?

[Derp]

Originally Posted by Acid Hazard

I've decided to sell my Filter Factory for anyone interested.

How much?

[100th Monkey]

Originally Posted by fooddude

Lots of great suggestions here, but many are over $1k or close to it, like the Mutator, Ebbe und Flut, Moroco, which are waay over my budget, lol.

That Oto Biscuit looks really cool (I love 8-bit sound, like my Mirage) with a bunch of other fx in it too. So does that Sherman Restyler, looks like lots of fx and nice filtering..that'd be a hard choice b/n the Biscuit, Restyler and FB; they're all so interesting... Even then, these 3 are still out of my budget, similarly priced the same about 500-700 bux (still much cheaper that the more expensive Ebbe und Flut, Mutator, etc. though)

...my price range was around 200-300, lol...maybe 400, but that's pushin it... That's why the ones I was askin about were the cheaper MoogerFooger, Electrix, ...hmm, maybe an old Vermona DAF or a MAM?

...Deng, that Biscuit and Restyler looks really versatile and useful though, droooool

My thoughts on the filters I own:

Sherman/Rodec Restyler - Extremely useful, especially for filtering mixes and stereo sources. It's very clean, very precise, and you can use it in a very clinical way for attacking/fixing/picking out specific frequencies. It's aimed at DJs as well as for studio use and has a momentary switch for easily dropping the filter in and out while playing "live". It overdrives quite nicely but it's very polite and refined compared to the Sherman FB.

Biscuit - Really nice sounding stereo filter + all the other effects. Fantastic little box with tons of character and versatility. Highly recommended.

Mooger Fooger MF whatever - It's a Moog lowpass filter, end of story. I love the sound, but the form factor annoys me. That's a personal thing though.

Frostwave Resonator - My absolute favourite filter. It's an MS-20 filter clone in a stompbox and it sounds amazing. With the level cranked up past 75% it starts to overdrive just a little and sounds warm and wonderful. Too bad he stopped making them.

If you're looking at either the Biscuit or the Restyler, I recommend the Biscuit. It sounds better and does a whole lot more. The Restyler is good, but it's the sort of thing you'd add to a decent sized rig when you want that kind of tight, precise control over your filtering.

[fooddude]

Man.... I really think I might just splurge on the Biscuit... since I am looking for extra FX/Delay units as well. Is it really that good? Sound better than a mutator, FB, etc.? The shape and design kinda makes me wary though honestly, as it looks like a cheap plastic toy like an mfb drum box, kind of a gimicky form factor compared to a rack or other big metal thing like an FB or somethin with woodsides, lol. The knobs look cheapy digital too, unlike the nice pot knobs on a moog or old synth or other typical old rack.

BTW... I was lookin at the schematics... can the Biscuit be used as 2 seperate (bi-timbral) mono FX/Filter units? ...or is it just strictly either 1 mono or stereo? ..it'd be awesome to have 2 units in one.

[100th Monkey]

It's either mono or stereo, not two independent mono processors.

The Biscuit doesn't look it, but it's actually made of metal and reasonably sturdy. It's not built like a tank but you wouldn't worry if you dropped it onto a hard floor. The knobs on it are fine and all the buttons are made from a nice rubber which makes it easy to use. The light up buttons are amazingly bright as well, which makes it look pretty damn cool in the dark.

The Mutator, FB and Biscuit all sound quite different, so it's hard to say which sounds better.

[Llitsor]

The Biscuit is definitely one of the better built products around these days thumbsup I've got no issues with it's build quality at all.

Incidentally, I have a Jomox T Resonator also, and it's a cool box, but not even nearly a traditional filter in nigh on any sense of the word really. I mean, it does filter, and it does resonate, but not in ways you'd expect. Which can be good or bad depending which way you look at it!? Either way, it does some crazy stuff! I just don't think i'd recommend it in this example though..

[axm311]

If you decide to go modular, keep in mind you will need something to boost your synths to modular level. Otherwise you'll be pretty disappointed with the results

[projectwoofer]

Waldorf Miniworks 4pole?


Read about it here:
Waldorf miniWORKS 4pole
and here:
Waldorf Miniworks

[ohmicide]

if only the Biscuit was set up like a SFB with CV inputs, VCFs, VCAs, EGs, and envelope follower..

oh yah..

and if only the SFB could be used in stereo.. it does have two filters and separate outputs for them..

oh well, at least we have the Eurorack stuff and other modular crap that we can put together ourselves

I should just put together my own modular effects processor.. pricey though

hmmm eurorack planner time!

[empirix]

SND FB-14 special audio filterbank#

Mono version is about 750 - used by many big names and myself excellent filter

[msl]

Originally Posted by 100th Monkey

Frostwave Resonator - My absolute favourite filter. It's an MS-20 filter clone in a stompbox and it sounds amazing. With the level cranked up past 75% it starts to overdrive just a little and sounds warm and wonderful. Too bad he stopped making them.

I can vouch for the Frostwave, its amazing, period. Hard to come by these though, shame he stopped I'd like to get his other boxes too. Also have a Jomox M-Resonator, its cool, not great, does lots of unexpected things due to the complex routing matrix. Great for experimental stuff.

Been tempted by the Waldorf 4pole, seen a few come up recently, but have never used or heard it.


.

[BTByrd]

Originally Posted by empirix

SND FB-14 special audio filterbank#

Mono version is about 750 - used by many big names and myself excellent filter

I don't think the OP was interested in an EQ, but thanks for bringing this to my attention. Looks nice!

[fengland]

I had the filter factory and it was great - really nice to have an envelope follower and LFO in there when feeding in external synths. I sold it after not using it for a while but wanted an analog filter so I went with a music from outer space state variable filter pcb that I populated myself and added my own env follower and oscillators. That thing rocks. It's nice having something state variable - I have the output of the lp, bp, and hp going into a little built in mixer so I can adjust the level of each - you might get similar results using a lpf on an aux send - worth experimenting with. If I was you I'd consider going modular - then you can add other outboard fx like ring mods and stuff later if you get bored of just the filter.

[empirix]

Originally Posted by BTByrd

I don't think the OP was interested in an EQ, but thanks for bringing this to my attention. Looks nice!

tis a filter my man split into different levels(or however you would word it) and its class

[dimconcept]

The original Frostwave filter is dope (the blue one)... If you can find it, scoop it up.

The Shermans are also damn fun to play around with.