Making the move into Softsynths and a MIDI controller

[aof21]

I want to get more into some soft synths, but the one thing holding me back is the "hands on" feel that I get with the hardware synths. I currently own Juno-106, Siel DK600, Roland JP-8080 and a MoPho. I'm quite happy with all these except the 8080 I am trying to sell right now. I'd like to get a little deeper with some softsynths. Already own Albino and am thinking about gettting Sylenth.

The only thing I don't know how to get around is I want a midi controller that I can easily assign some knobs (and ideally save and recall these assignments very quickly) so I can use this to control the softsynths.

I'm using Ableton and I know you can assign things one by one pretty easy, but I'd love to have a way where I can just permanently assign certain knobs to certain parameters and know what controls what.

I already have a small midi keyboard, so don't really need the keys, just need the knobs and sliders, although I would be open to something that has both and ideally 37 keys or 49 if I have to. Ideally something that could control the MoPho editor as well.

Any suggestions?

[wishy-washy]

I think the ipad with some osc/midi controller is the most flexible, practical and ergonomic option for this (and I agree : it's a bit expensive for what it is, mine is a present from my brother ; )

[elektrasoul]

Ive got a novation nocturn. Hardly ever use it though. I feel the resolution/performance on some knob control presets feels too high/fast. Cant be bothered delving into the tools/preferences, although no doubt you could tweak to suit. Id say “Stay Hardware and Vinyl” ;-) lol

[aof21]

Originally Posted by wishy-washy

I think the ipad with some osc/midi controller is the most flexible, practical and ergonomic option for this (and I agree : it's a bit expensive for what it is, mine is a present from my brother ; )

This would be amazing actually and I figure a good midi controller would actually be similarly priced.

Sorry for the newb question, but how does the mapping work? E.g. If I set up a template in touch OSC and had four sliders for ADSR in sylenth or albino can I save this as a template and recall it very quickly?

Speed and ease of use is very important to me because this is what I like about the hardware synths right now -- it's very fast to edit the patches on them. I want this same type of workflow so I can continue to work fast.

[wishy-washy]

Most (all ?) of these osc/midi controllers offer computer editors where you can create your own custom layouts (a bit time consuming, but nothing overly complex ), and it's very easy to upload them on your ipad as presets.
If your target instrument understands midi only, you'll have to use some software on the computer side to translate the osc data in midi bytes (osculator if your computer runs os x, or one of the pure data patches that can be found on the touchosc website if you're a windows user, should work fine)

[Hi PHi]

If you don't need keys and your using Ableton Live, I recommend the Novation Remote Zero SL. The knobs/sliders/screen automatically map to the selected Live device's controls. Also, when a synth or other plugin is in the Live rack, and you hit the "configure" button, you can easily map any parameter to the Novation's controls.

I don't use the Automap software, but that's there, too...

[Lilbroz]

Thank you for pointing out the Novation Remote Zero SL! I'm going to be picking that one up soon. thumbsup

Oh and my input to the OP:

Pick up Sylenth its great.

[sempervirent]

Funny, I'm going in the other direction. I was definitely an early adopter with all things digital but I've come to dislike the overall sound and the lack of physical control. There are exceptions, of course.

For a controller without keys, I recommend the Akai MPD32. Put some electrical tape under the pads and you'll be set. Multiple banks of 16 pads, 8 faders, 8 buttons, and 8 knobs. All the softsynth tweaking you could ask for, plus, it lets you trigger clips in Ableton by assigning pads to clips and groups.

[aof21]

Originally Posted by Hi PHi

If you don't need keys and your using Ableton Live, I recommend the Novation Remote Zero SL. The knobs/sliders/screen automatically map to the selected Live device's controls. Also, when a synth or other plugin is in the Live rack, and you hit the "configure" button, you can easily map any parameter to the Novation's controls.

I don't use the Automap software, but that's there, too...

so if I do manually "configure" to a specific 3rd party plug (say Sylenth or Albino) will it remember these mappings automatically or will I need to save and recall a preset on the controller each time I open the plug.

What about with the MoPho editor. Can anyone comment on how I would set up a midi controller to stay mapped to that? That's a little different because its not a VST / AU plug its a stand alone bit of software.

Thanks for the tips on Sylenth. Heard nothing but good things about it. Still on a G5 now and I guess it only works on Intel, but planning to get an iMac next week or so, so I'll pick it up then.

[StephenWiley]

novation remote SL

go with the zero or any keyed version

amazing controllers

[PaPi61]

Originally Posted by aof21

so if I do manually "configure" to a specific 3rd party plug (say Sylenth or Albino) will it remember these mappings automatically or will I need to save and recall a preset on the controller each time I open the plug.

The software Novation uses (Automap) creates clones of your plugins (the actual .dll files) which contain all the specific settings. When you choose your softsynths in your DAW, you'll be presented with a list of your VSTi's plus their Automap-enhanced versions. For example, Albino will become "Albino (automap)", but the original VST won't be deleted, just cloned.

[sys40198]

Dude, have you checked out the Virus TI by Access? It's kinda pricey (thats why i dont roll with one) but my buddy has one and its real sick. It's not a midi controller per se, and may be a bit more than you're looking for. But its a hardware synth fully and integrated into software and sounds great. I know there's a way to use the Virus's Remote template capabilities to create custom templates for you synths. Sorry Im not more helpful, since i dont own one and dont use Ableton as much as I used to (mainly roll with logic now). but you should be able to create permanent templates for any controller you use.
The Ipad this sounds cool too b/c you can create your own settings, buttons knobs and sqwitches heres a vid: YouTube - How to set up Ipad as a Custom Midi Controller for Ableton

This is off topic but IMHO it maybe a good idea to just dive in and see if you can try to "get used to" programing stuff in conjuction with using a midi controller, only cuz in some sythns like Camel audio's Alchemy, the coolest modulations you can do would be super hard to use with a midi controller, like the MSEG stuff. plus if ur modulating several parameters with different modulations, idk if you have enough buttons or knobs to control them all. Going from hardware to software seems like it would take some getting used to, but its probably a good idea since software tech is getting better everyday (and most kids these days are used to that soft synth sound) and for what you get, theyre cheaper...and greener since they dont use actual components
Everyone works different though, as long as your track is kickin ass in the end it doesn't matter
hope this helps a little

[aof21]

Originally Posted by PaPi61

The software Novation uses (Automap) creates clones of your plugins (the actual .dll files) which contain all the specific settings. When you choose your softsynths in your DAW, you'll be presented with a list of your VSTi's plus their Automap-enhanced versions. For example, Albino will become "Albino (automap)", but the original VST won't be deleted, just cloned.

what are people's experiences with this? is it buggy? does it take up more CPU resources, or is this a pretty reliable extra layer? I read another thread and half the people seemed to say the whole automap thing was too buggy and unstable to use. on the other hand, if its as good as it sounds, it seems perfect. Can anyone comment here?

[aof21]

Originally Posted by sys40198

Dude, have you checked out the Virus TI by Access? It's kinda pricey (thats why i dont roll with one) but my buddy has one and its real sick. It's not a midi controller per se, and may be a bit more than you're looking for. But its a hardware synth fully and integrated into software and sounds great. I know there's a way to use the Virus's Remote template capabilities to create custom templates for you synths. Sorry Im not more helpful, since i dont own one and dont use Ableton as much as I used to (mainly roll with logic now). but you should be able to create permanent templates for any controller you use.
The Ipad this sounds cool too b/c you can create your own settings, buttons knobs and sqwitches heres a vid: YouTube - How to set up Ipad as a Custom Midi Controller for Ableton

actually, this is the other route I was considering, but $2k is a lot. seriously, I have no doubt the virus would pretty much be exactly what I am looking for and I love their sound. just at this point i'm looking at either a $200 sofsynth and a $200 controller or a $2,000 synth...

But that's part of the reason why I wanted to get some opinions, to find out are there a lot of people really finding that they can effectively map a midi controller to soft synths in a way that its super fast and actually easier than just clicking on the screen? I never have really. I always felt like why would I click on the screen and assign the knob when I can just click on the screen and move it where I need it to be and be done with it? The only time I would really bother is if I was going to do a long automation pass that seemed like it might be easier to do with a physical knob or slider.

This is off topic but IMHO it maybe a good idea to just dive in and see if you can try to "get used to" programing stuff in conjuction with using a midi controller, only cuz in some sythns like Camel audio's Alchemy, the coolest modulations you can do would be super hard to use with a midi controller, like the MSEG stuff. plus if ur modulating several parameters with different modulations, idk if you have enough buttons or knobs to control them all. Going from hardware to software seems like it would take some getting used to, but its probably a good idea since software tech is getting better everyday (and most kids these days are used to that soft synth sound) and for what you get, theyre cheaper...and greener since they dont use actual components
Everyone works different though, as long as your track is kickin ass in the end it doesn't matter
hope this helps a little

Not off topic at all and totally get this point. I've been programming using soft and hard synths for maybe about 7 years at this point. used to use Reason and Logic synths a lot. use some soft synths today, mostly albino. but once I bought more hardware synths, just found I gravitated towards those because of their ease of use. Now for both financial and creative reasons, it seems appealing to me to give some softies another shot.

Wanted to get some tips on what others had found in terms of trying to bridge that gap between entirely hands on but limited in their modulation / routing /automation potential hardware synths and tedious on screen pointing and clicking yet more limitless potential in terms of modulation, routing, etc. software synths.

Hoping some folks on here might have discovered some good workarounds and have some opinions on what they have used that allows you to have a little of both worlds -- hands on control with the flexibility and affordability of soft synths.

I've already owned Oxygen 8, Novation XStation 25 and Axiom 61. I got rid of them all because I found the mapping of the controllers to be so tedious and unintuitive that it didn't really save me any time over pointing and clicking. Since I was only using the keys anyhow, I opted for a keyboard that fit on my desk easier.

However, small improvements such as this automap technology (which wasn't around at the time of my XStation 25) or just the ability to have a little screen telling me which parameter this knob is mapped to, might make enough of a difference for me to actually want to use the knobs and sliders more this time around if I invested once again in a knob and slider equipped controller.

[aof21]

Originally Posted by sempervirent

Funny, I'm going in the other direction. I was definitely an early adopter with all things digital but I've come to dislike the overall sound and the lack of physical control. There are exceptions, of course.

For a controller without keys, I recommend the Akai MPD32. Put some electrical tape under the pads and you'll be set. Multiple banks of 16 pads, 8 faders, 8 buttons, and 8 knobs. All the softsynth tweaking you could ask for, plus, it lets you trigger clips in Ableton by assigning pads to clips and groups.

And does the MPD 32 save your assignments so if you pulled up the same plugin again it can remember what you mapped where? I'd be down to check out some akai stuff as I had both an mpc and now have an LPK and I like their stuff. Not really worried about triggering clips though, this would be strictly for plugin (synth) control.

[aof21]

I downloaded touchOSC and started using that on my iPhone last night. Definitely not the easiest thing to set up! Got the midi note part ( I can trigger notes on my softsynths). But struggling with how to get it to control the amp env on these synths . Using OSCulator right now to convert the OSC data to midi data.