How much should a producer charge on the "back end" of a song?

808oom · 12th January 2011

Just wondering how much I should be charging on the "back end" for every project I produce for a artist? and backends I mean percentage of digital sales, cd sales, licensing. publishing etc..

Does the rate change depending on how high the upfront fee I charge goes for or is there one standard rate?

I.E. say I charge $1000.00 per song vs $5000.00 per song would there be a difference in what i should be asking for in back ends.

allcentury · 12th January 2011

those are just things you negotiate, me personally I make sure to hold onto as much publishing as I can because sync's are where the real money is.

themaidsroom · 12th January 2011

most people I know
don't do any "back end" any more.
it is all about what is tangible and "front end"
right now..........

Estin · 12th January 2011

I was curious about this also, mainly because after i get a decent song selection together i think i'm going to pay to have it mixed and mastered by someone who knows what their doing.

Do you just pay the cost upfront for the work being done or are royalties involved? I don't plan on ever making any money with my music but i'd like to invest in having it sound its best.

808oom · 12th January 2011

Iv'e looked around online and it seems 3% is a common number but it seems a bit low for indie to mid level guys who can pretty much only charge anywhere from $500.00 - say $2000.00 per song.

808oom · 12th January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaidsroom

it is all about what is tangible and "front end"
right now..........

I couldn't agree more with the "front end" thing. Price your work as high as possible because now a day’s it’s very hard to sell many tracks online.

But let’s say you end up producing a remix that gets licensed to various mix compilations or you do an original song for someone and they get it placed on TV or film.

You definitely want to make sure you’re getting a fair rate for your work..

yxz · 12th January 2011

I'd have to agree with themaidsroom about the front end. Take what you can get now, unless you are a big enough producer to really be making money through a back-end deal. No offense, but chances are if you are asking on GS, you aren't.

Producers get what are commonly known as points. 1 point = 1 percent. Generally, a solid producer will get anywhere from 3-5 points for an album. 5 points if you're Brian Eno and you're working with Coldplay, and, even then, I'd wager it was 3 or 4 points...

So, for you, if you asked more than 2 points for a song you worked on, you'd be incredibly lucky to get it. However, the people you are working with could also think that 3 points really aren't that many. (Though, depending on their talent, they'd could be miserably wrong, seeing as it means that you essentially own 3% of the every sale they make or every time their song is licensed. )

If you were to ask for $5,000 upfront for producing, I wouldn't give you any points. If you asked for $1,000, I might give you 2 points if I thought you did an incredible job and really helped me see through my vision.

If I were you, I'd try to get the most possible upfront, UNLESS you thought the stuff you were working on was gold. As in, you knew it was going to end up on a show like Gossip Girl or Entourage and get a Cadillac ad placement. (Still, even then, if they got paid $10,000-$20,000 for a single spot (which is fairly standard), you'd only be making 300 to 600 dollars for that spot. So, record sales would have to literally make a killing for you to make as much as you probably could've upfront. Any other placement on TV (MTV, VH1, ETC.) pays pretty terribly. I've had 4 songs on 3 different networks, and the most I ever made for a single song was $700. Album sales went up for a month when I was IDed on a show, but it still wasn't as incredible as you might think. And, if you were my producer, getting 3 points, you could've made more off of me on the front end.

Regardless, my opinion is to take as much upfront as possible, unless you are working with a band that you think will sell over 10,000 records and get a decent amount of movie/tv/ad placements.

But, hey, what do I know?

12th January 2011	#1
808oom Gear Head Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 34 Thread Starter	How much should a producer charge on the "back end" of a song? Just wondering how much I should be charging on the "back end" for every project I produce for a artist? and backends I mean percentage of digital sales, cd sales, licensing. publishing etc.. Does the rate change depending on how high the upfront fee I charge goes for or is there one standard rate? I.E. say I charge $1000.00 per song vs $5000.00 per song would there be a difference in what i should be asking for in back ends.

12th January 2011	#3
themaidsroom Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2005 Location: nyc / london Posts: 3,510	most people I know don't do any "back end" any more. it is all about what is tangible and "front end" right now.......... __________________ www.themaidsroom.com http://www.last.fm/music/Jack+McKeever

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12th January 2011	#2
allcentury Gear maniac Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 198	those are just things you negotiate, me personally I make sure to hold onto as much publishing as I can because sync's are where the real money is.

12th January 2011	#4
Estin Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 667	I was curious about this also, mainly because after i get a decent song selection together i think i'm going to pay to have it mixed and mastered by someone who knows what their doing. Do you just pay the cost upfront for the work being done or are royalties involved? I don't plan on ever making any money with my music but i'd like to invest in having it sound its best.

12th January 2011	#7
yxz Gear nut Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 146	I'd have to agree with themaidsroom about the front end. Take what you can get now, unless you are a big enough producer to really be making money through a back-end deal. No offense, but chances are if you are asking on GS, you aren't. Producers get what are commonly known as points. 1 point = 1 percent. Generally, a solid producer will get anywhere from 3-5 points for an album. 5 points if you're Brian Eno and you're working with Coldplay, and, even then, I'd wager it was 3 or 4 points... So, for you, if you asked more than 2 points for a song you worked on, you'd be incredibly lucky to get it. However, the people you are working with could also think that 3 points really aren't that many. (Though, depending on their talent, they'd could be miserably wrong, seeing as it means that you essentially own 3% of the every sale they make or every time their song is licensed. ) If you were to ask for $5,000 upfront for producing, I wouldn't give you any points. If you asked for $1,000, I might give you 2 points if I thought you did an incredible job and really helped me see through my vision. If I were you, I'd try to get the most possible upfront, UNLESS you thought the stuff you were working on was gold. As in, you knew it was going to end up on a show like Gossip Girl or Entourage and get a Cadillac ad placement. (Still, even then, if they got paid $10,000-$20,000 for a single spot (which is fairly standard), you'd only be making 300 to 600 dollars for that spot. So, record sales would have to literally make a killing for you to make as much as you probably could've upfront. Any other placement on TV (MTV, VH1, ETC.) pays pretty terribly. I've had 4 songs on 3 different networks, and the most I ever made for a single song was $700. Album sales went up for a month when I was IDed on a show, but it still wasn't as incredible as you might think. And, if you were my producer, getting 3 points, you could've made more off of me on the front end. Regardless, my opinion is to take as much upfront as possible, unless you are working with a band that you think will sell over 10,000 records and get a decent amount of movie/tv/ad placements. But, hey, what do I know?